What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?

[Phasmal]

I just don't think there's that much demand for it, when you can look at boobies and anime boobies online for free. The gameplay isn't compelling enough for it to outweigh buying something you could otherwise get for free.

Games like DOAX aren't so much rooted in a desire to see boobies, but in a desire to see boobies of an existing established character that you can interact with. In this regard it is more similar to fanart and fanficion, than just porn. And while there is content online to meet the demand, character driven stuff is largely untapped as a market niche. Look at all of the Overwatch porn out there. It's not there because of boobies, it's there because of the characters.

Well, yes, but Overwatch is itself a compelling game on it's own. And the fanfic and fanart of it are free. It's actually a perfect example of my point.
It does have a lot of hot characters, but you could also play the game and not care about how the characters look.

I just don't think there's much of a market for waifu simulators. I mean, there IS a market, that much has been proved, but it's niche and it's never going to be as big as GTA, Mass Effect, or indeed Overwatch.

 

[Einspanner]

"What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?"

Dignity?

I mean, no... it's not that. We have no dignity to lose on that front, I think it's just that they primarily are designed to appeal to people who want to be vaguely teased, while the west is less terrified of women with pubic hair, or who don't cry like toddlers when they have sex.

I'd say the West is terrified of games with younger children in them, as for actual children I'd say we're worse.

Random Podcast said it best, Japan is obsessed with 18 year olds acting like they're 13, America is obsessed with making 13 year olds act like they're 18.

There's some truth to tall of that, but the dark reality of sexual abuse of minors in Japan and how recently it was both legal and quietly acceptable speaks to a different reality.

 

[Einspanner]

The prejudice present in this thread towards that kind of games and the people who play it is pretty telling as to why it hasn't happened yet.

It is? I'm pretty sure it's still just that there is virtually no market, not whatever just triggered you and made you think "prejudice". Not liking what you like, isn't prejudice, it might even be good taste.

I think some of this "Liberated Japan" and "Prudish West" has to be coming from people unfamiliar with both cultures. Japan considers us to be basically, immodest sluts. The idea of everyone having instant and constant access to almost limitless free, uncensored porn would be as alien as everyone having their own car.

Putting aside the rampant ignorance, or fantastical views at least, the reason they're not made (or really sold) in the West (or indeed outside of Japan, very much) is that there is no audience. Only Japan has people shutting in and rejecting real women, only Japan has a birth rate that looks like China's population graph, left upside down by accident. Only Japan is putting women in jail for 3D printed kayaks, and only Japan censors pubic hair AFAIK.

Short of going to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, you'd be really hard pressed to find a more sexually repressive place than Japan. It just so happens that if you don't live in Japan, and aren't Japanese, and have the pick of their entire catalogue of porny games and so forth, you have a warped view. Even in Japan, those games are not exactly played by everyone, anymore than otaku-level anime watching is a normal thing. A lot of what "Japan" supposedly is and does exists purely in the fantastical imaginations of people 4Chan unkindly calls "Weebs".

tl;dr Japan has a high tolerance for a handful of things that predominately Judeo-Christian cultures do not, especially "lightly dirty stuff". That's a result of basically everything else being on a kind of hard lockdown, even if it is in plain sight. Failing to understand that is to fail to understand Japanese people completely.

More that they don't rely JUST on sex appeal. Usually they're big on story and character, and sex is something that happens as part of the story. Often they try to draw some emotional involvement from the player to give the sex scenes context and meaning.

This is not that accurate at all. Most Visual Novels have a half-assed story with stereotyped characters that all fall into Japanese Anime Trope Land they can't escape from. Many VNs are there to cater to the already built in fan-base in Japan. They do not have to try very hard to craft a good story, because it is going to sell pretty well anyway as long as it is competently put together. Which is why the Harem anime genre is still so popular despite the lack of any real quality what so ever. They start to get samey after a while. It is all about merchandising, and less to do with anything story or character related. Most of the time the characters are boring planks of generic wood in the case of the protagonists (cause you are supposed to insert yourself in there) and the love interests are all walking anime tropes that have very little to them outside of their over-played personalities. Of course, this is not true for EVERYTHING. There are quite a few amazing Visual Novels out there. But most of them aren't going to be Fate/Stay Night or Steins;Gate.

Interestingly enough about those two examples? One of them doesn't have sex at all, and the other one dropped it as fast as possible in every single later release, which tells me that they don't need sex at all to be good. It can actually detract from it some times. The original F/SN for instance only had the scenes in the game because the company didn't think it would sell without them, so they shoe horned them in. Nasu didn't even write those scenes, and it shows. They are so horribly written that it actively takes away from the experience.

The average VN seems to be:

"Oh big brother sama, I want you!" [footnote]Gaaaack[/footnote]

"Oh new transfer student sama, we want you!" [footnote]Now coming to Light Novels and even anime such as Irregular at Magic High School![/footnote]

and of course the always popular

"We're some kind of non-human and we want you!" [footnote]Furries... everywhere furries.[/footnote]

and lastly, but by no means least,

"Dame! I don't want this! Stop! AAAHHHHH!"[footnote]which always seems to have the most passionate following.[/footnote]

Well now, someone who might actually know more about Japan than Pocky and tentacle rape.

"What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?"

Dignity?

I mean, no... it's not that. We have no dignity to lose on that front, I think it's just that they primarily are designed to appeal to people who want to be vaguely teased, while the west is less terrified of women with pubic hair, or who don't cry like toddlers when they have sex.

I'd say the West is terrified of games with younger children in them, as for actual children I'd say we're worse.

Random Podcast said it best, Japan is obsessed with 18 year olds acting like they're 13, America is obsessed with making 13 year olds act like they're 18.

There's some truth to tall of that, but the dark reality of sexual abuse of minors in Japan and how recently it was both legal and quietly acceptable speaks to a different reality.

 

[coates32]

I think that there are two reasons for this. First, many of the more pervy games that get made are mostly focus on just the sex appeal and not much else.

The second reason is that for a fair number of people, they feel that if you are going to make pervy content, why not make porn instead. For an example, one of my always ask me why I go for fan service shows instead of going straight to porn. I usually tell him that unlike porn, fan service shows can (but not always) have things like character development, cool action scenes, and stuff. His paraphrased reply to that is, "Who cares about that for their porn?".

Understand that both of these points I find to be disappointing, as I'm the kind of guy who like stuff like Skullgirls and Sekirei, but doesn't care for porn.

Games like DOAX aren't so much rooted in a desire to see boobies, but in a desire to see boobies of an existing established character that you can interact with. In this regard it is more similar to fanart and fanficion, than just porn. And while there is content online to meet the demand, character driven stuff is largely untapped as a market niche. Look at all of the Overwatch porn out there. It's not there because of boobies, it's there because of the characters.

Holy moly, I could have explained better myself.

 

[Einspanner]

I think that there are two reasons for this. First, many of the more pervy games that get made are mostly focus on just the sex appeal and not much else.

The second reason is that for a fair number of people, they feel that if you are going to make pervy content, why not make porn instead. For an example, one of my always ask me why I go for fan service shows instead of going straight to porn. I usually tell him that unlike porn, fan service shows can (but not always) have things like character development, cool action scenes, and stuff. His paraphrased reply to that is, "Who cares about that for their porn?".

Understand that both of these points I find to be disappointing, as I'm the kind of guy who like stuff like Skullgirls and Sekirei, but doesn't care for porn.

When you have access to porn, or regular sex, fanservice stops being fun, and starts to feel awkward. To be honest, something like Food Wars would probably have been better if they dropped the fanservice. Without it, it's a show you could recommend to anyone, with it... it's kind of awkward. It's not just porn though, if you have a good sex life it's even less appealing. You need to be sort of constantly horny to appreciate blatant fanservice.

I mean FANSERVICE too, not "She's wearing a skirt".

 

[Frankster]

I just find it weird Huniepop or DOA volleyball of all things is seen as an example of a typical perv game. Jeez people, this is bottom tier perviness, you get like what, skimpy outfits in 1, and like 4-5 naughty pics of each girl in the other? Not even any interactivity in huniepop pics either, which leads people here to correctly ask "why settle for that, when you get a world of free pr0n on the net?". Well actual interactive perv games do exist you know, to bring up a rather controversial example: Rapelay (i'm only bringing that one up cos it's rather infamous and it's also not my fetish, so people raging at it won't reflect on my own tastes, but it is someone's fetish for sure and I aint gonna judge so long as it remains in the realm of fantasy).

The industry of sex games that I'm familiar with is more niche sites selling many varied titles and comprises what some would consider fucked up fetishes, I don't ever see that breaking into the mainstream even if there's some legit good games in there along with the titillation (normally platformers where if you lose the character gets raped/abused by monsters and in the game over screen, such as that castlevania remake..Peh forgot name of it).

DoAx is about as softcore as you can get, you don't even see any actual nudity. And softcore games are meh for the titillation aspect imo, so don't even appeal to those looking for kinky games, it's more if you super love the characters.

So why doesn't the west make more DoAX style games? Imo it's because DoAX is somewhat of an anomaly. it's not hardcore enough to be good jerking material, it's softcore leanings restricts the audience somewhat and it's a "big" title with high production values that still needs to sell quite a bit to make it profitable. It's also riding on the back of a well known cast whose company is ok with using them in this type of game.
There's been a few attempts at mainstream kink games which raven mentioned earlier, but they just weren't profitable as a mainstream game and due to being mainstream were too softcore to be interesting to true and proper pervs.

So imo if you want to see western kinky games (whether it be softcore like DoAx or something more...deviant), you should not be turning to mainstream gaming but the more indie side or delve into the darker parts of the internet where gaming media fears to thread outside the occasional shock story such as with rapelay, where I'll guarantee you you will find a game with the fucked up fetish to suit you and be perfectly happy with your purchase. There is a thriving market for perv games out there, you just have to know where to look

 

[coates32]

When you have access to porn, or regular sex, fanservice stops being fun, and starts to feel awkward. To be honest, something like Food Wars would probably have been better if they dropped the fanservice. Without it, it's a show you could recommend to anyone, with it... it's kind of awkward. It's not just porn though, if you have a good sex life it's even less appealing. You need to be sort of constantly horny to appreciate blatant fanservice.

I mean FANSERVICE too, not "She's wearing a skirt".

I will admit that some shows might not benefit from having fan service, or that the service in a particular series might too "out there" or too extreme for it's own good. Regarding your comment about having a good sex life, I'm pretty sure there are some people out there with healthy sex lives that enjoys that stuff. Different strokes for different fokes, I guess.

 

[Einspanner]

When you have access to porn, or regular sex, fanservice stops being fun, and starts to feel awkward. To be honest, something like Food Wars would probably have been better if they dropped the fanservice. Without it, it's a show you could recommend to anyone, with it... it's kind of awkward. It's not just porn though, if you have a good sex life it's even less appealing. You need to be sort of constantly horny to appreciate blatant fanservice.

I mean FANSERVICE too, not "She's wearing a skirt".

I will admit that some shows might not benefit from having fan service, or that the service in a particular series might too "out there" or too extreme for it's own good. Regarding your comment about having a good sex life, I'm pretty sure there are some people out there with healthy sex lives that enjoys that stuff. Different strokes for different fokes, I guess.

I believe in people who aren't frustrated and lonely being into that kind of thing in the way I believe in god; I want to believe, but I've never seen it.

 

[Wakey87]

Japan seems to not get as frustrated or worked up as the west by having titles like these on the shelfs

Their first thought is 'Shikata ga nai' Which means it can't be helped, rather than 'won't somone please think of the children'

 

[coates32]

I just find it weird Huniepop or DOA volleyball of all things is seen as an example of a typical perv game. Jeez people, this is bottom tier perviness, you get like what, skimpy outfits in 1, and like 4-5 naughty pics of each girl in the other? Not even any interactivity in huniepop pics either, which leads people here to correctly ask "why settle for that, when you get a world of free pr0n on the net?". Well actual interactive perv games do exist you know, to bring up a rather controversial example: Rapelay (i'm only bringing that one up cos it's rather infamous and it's also not my fetish, so people raging at it won't reflect on my own tastes, but it is someone's fetish for sure and I aint gonna judge so long as it remains in the realm of fantasy).

The industry of sex games that I'm familiar with is more niche sites selling many varied titles and comprises what some would consider fucked up fetishes, I don't ever see that breaking into the mainstream even if there's some legit good games in there along with the titillation (normally platformers where if you lose the character gets raped/abused by monsters and in the game over screen, such as that castlevania remake..Peh forgot name of it).

DoAx is about as softcore as you can get, you don't even see any actual nudity. And softcore games are meh for the titillation aspect imo, so don't even appeal to those looking for kinky games, it's more if you super love the characters.

So why doesn't the west make more DoAX style games? Imo it's because DoAX is somewhat of an anomaly. it's not hardcore enough to be good jerking material, it's softcore leanings restricts the audience somewhat and it's a "big" title with high production values that still needs to sell quite a bit to make it profitable. It's also riding on the back of a well known cast whose company is ok with using them in this type of game.
There's been a few attempts at mainstream kink games which raven mentioned earlier, but they just weren't profitable as a mainstream game and due to being mainstream were too softcore to be interesting to true and proper pervs.

So imo if you want to see western kinky games (whether it be softcore like DoAx or something more...deviant), you should not be turning to mainstream gaming but the more indie side or delve into the darker parts of the internet where gaming media fears to thread outside the occasional shock story such as with rapelay, where I'll guarantee you you will find a game with the fucked up fetish to suit you and be perfectly happy with your purchase. There is a thriving market for perv games out there, you just have to know where to look

I think the OP might be inquiring about why the west don't make "ecchi [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecchi]" games. As to why one would prefer that over porn, perhaps the they want to sex appeal without (graphic) sex scenes, or perhaps they want something that is more capable of having a better focus on story, characterization, action, ect. with some sex appeal. Or it could something else.

 

[Frankster]

Word of the day is Ecchi!

Cheers, learned a new word there. Last week it was "ahegao", the week before it was "ryona", I'm learning all sorts of interesting terms this month! Hum gives me idea for a new forum title actually..

And yeah, guess that's what OP meant in retrospect, guess I was too distracted with some posters referring to DoaX or Huniepop as some kind of shameful perv game when they are more the pervy equivalent of beer without alcohol or bacardi breezer super light.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Word of the day is Ecchi!

Cheers, learned a new word there. Last week it was "ahegao", the week before it was "ryona", I'm learning all sorts of interesting terms this month! Hum gives me idea for a new forum title actually..

And yeah, guess that's what OP meant in retrospect, guess I was too distracted with some posters referring to DoaX or Huniepop as some kind of shameful perv game when they are more the pervy equivalent of beer without alcohol or bacardi breezer super light.

Hence why those games don't offend or bother me in the least. DOAX, Criminal Girls, that stuff is practically family friendly compared to a lot of ryona games out there, both from Japan and from the US.

 

[Inazuma1]

Religious prudes and feminist prudes. And the internet, which as Avenue Q taught us, is for porn.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

This thread hurts.

Truly, none of us understands Japan. Hell, I myself know little about Japan, but these conclusions are ridiculous.

I think some of this "Liberated Japan" and "Prudish West" has to be coming from people unfamiliar with both cultures. Japan considers us to be basically, immodest sluts. The idea of everyone having instant and constant access to almost limitless free, uncensored porn would be as alien as everyone having their own car.

You can watch xvideos in Japan, uncensored. It's not illegal, at least for now, you just can't distribute uncensored pornography while in Japan.

Japan is the land where convenience stores sell adult magazines open counter, sometimes right next to the shounen magazine section and every kid who wants to buy Weekly Shounen Jump can see it.

Only Japan has people shutting in and rejecting real women, only Japan has a birth rate that looks like China's population graph, left upside down by accident.

I'm very interested in hikikomori, and from what read before, I guess the biggest factor is depression and its symptoms such as inability to do basic daily activities, to even getting up out of bed. This depression could stem from economic downturn, social anxiety, failing rigorous expectations, or a lack of fulfillment out of hard work.

It's not that everyone in Japan is satisfied with their waifus and cannot touch a real woman anymore, it's that normal people do not want to get married and have children due to being overworked, lack of privacy, to just not wanting children (seriously they cost so much and take so much time!), and lot's of other possible reasons. Maybe waifus fit in there somewhere, but not so much.

Only Japan is putting women in jail for 3D printed kayaks, and only Japan censors pubic hair AFAIK.

The Japanese Supreme Court upholds the belief, that as long as genitalia is not shown, it is artistic enough to not be obscene. It is no different to what the US thought until the 70s, and even now it is ambiguous of the legality of porn. I think this is very important, pornography is only "legal" in the US is because state prosecutors no longer want to go after it. In Japan, hardly anyone is prosecuted because in order to distribute their material, the publisher (including online shops or doujin markets like Comiket) will clear the item of obscene material to avoid being prosecuted.

However, a lot of doujin artists nowadays don't even try, and have an minuscule 8 px line covering the frenulum or the clitoris, because publishers say "eh, close enough" and sell it anyways. This is still illegal, but the chances of being prosecuted are very small. Prosecutors don't have to time to look at every piece of content. Instead, they try to go after it by precedent, like the RIAA suing some poor kid for millions of dollars for pirating an album. Still, like how people pirate things because the chances of any repercussions are so tiny, authors and publishers are willing to take the risk.

So, it's not as if people in Japan are afraid of genitals, or at least the ones who consume porn. It's just the conservative government... again. I mean, I guess there are always some prudes, but like the US you will find a lot of people unhappy about that kind of stuff.

Oh and pubic hair is not censored anymore. Also, you're going to see a whole lot more pubic hair in AV than in regular porn. I've seen my fair share to know they don't shave.

Short of going to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, you'd be really hard pressed to find a more sexually repressive place than Japan. It just so happens that if you don't live in Japan, and aren't Japanese, and have the pick of their entire catalogue of porny games and so forth, you have a warped view".

In China and South Korea, pornography is banned. No getting it on the internet also, unless you want to bypass the filter and break the law.

Even in Japan, those games are not exactly played by everyone, anymore than otaku-level anime watching is a normal thing. A lot of what "Japan" supposedly is and does exists purely in the fantastical imaginations of people 4Chan unkindly calls "Weebs

They don't have to be played by everyone. Anime culture is highly prevalent in Japan, it is not a fantastical imagination of weebs.

This is not that accurate at all. Most Visual Novels have a half-assed story with stereotyped characters that all fall into Japanese Anime Trope Land they can't escape from. Many VNs are there to cater to the already built in fan-base in Japan. They do not have to try very hard to craft a good story, because it is going to sell pretty well anyway as long as it is competently put together. Which is why the Harem anime genre is still so popular despite the lack of any real quality what so ever.

Which is true for anything including movies and video games. Most of them suck. Anyone can make a VN, so it's like Steam Greenlight for porn. I'm just saying, there are more to VNs than nukige. Oh and you know all the uncreative harems and generic stories, are the ones that fail in sales? Generalizing here but, even otaku have tastes you know.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I just don't think there's that much demand for it, when you can look at boobies and anime boobies online for free. The gameplay isn't compelling enough for it to outweigh buying something you could otherwise get for free.

Games like DOAX aren't so much rooted in a desire to see boobies, but in a desire to see boobies of an existing established character that you can interact with. In this regard it is more similar to fanart and fanficion, than just porn. And while there is content online to meet the demand, character driven stuff is largely untapped as a market niche. Look at all of the Overwatch porn out there. It's not there because of boobies, it's there because of the characters.

Well, yes, but Overwatch is itself a compelling game on it's own. And the fanfic and fanart of it are free. It's actually a perfect example of my point.
It does have a lot of hot characters, but you could also play the game and not care about how the characters look.

I just don't think there's much of a market for waifu simulators. I mean, there IS a market, that much has been proved, but it's niche and it's never going to be as big as GTA, Mass Effect, or indeed Overwatch.

Ideally, a game like doa will also have compelling characters worth caring about too. The benefit then is that the erotic elements are actually part of the canon and as such feel more impactful. DOA is a mediocre example but when you tackle Senran Kagura and its surprisingly well developed chars you can really see this.


Ultimately, the charm is in the specific type, form, kind of titilation offered. Japan has free porn too, they're not China, only their domestic porn is censored and they have free internet too just like us.

 

[coates32]

Word of the day is Ecchi!

Cheers, learned a new word there. Last week it was "ahegao", the week before it was "ryona", I'm learning all sorts of interesting terms this month! Hum gives me idea for a new forum title actually..

And yeah, guess that's what OP meant in retrospect, guess I was too distracted with some posters referring to DoaX or Huniepop as some kind of shameful perv game when they are more the pervy equivalent of beer without alcohol or bacardi breezer super light.

This was the first time I've ever heard of the word "ryona". I could have lived without knowing it, though.

 

[Einspanner]

I believe in people who aren't frustrated and lonely being into that kind of thing in the way I believe in god; I want to believe, but I've never seen it.

And you never will. Because you attribute being into that kind of thing to being lonely and frustrated.

That may be what you assume and believe, but it isn't what I actually said. You're clear on that at least, right?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

You may have met people and just not know it because it tends to not be a thing people just up and admit like that. Which again goes back to the prudes etc.


Also, note that you yourself don't need to be religious or a prude to flinch at the prospect of backlash from those who are. This nuance seems lost in the entire thread and people tend to misunderstand that people are directly calling people prudes when what they actually are doing is point out a climate that permeates society irrespective of individual's personal traits. You may not be a prude but some are and they tend to be people's bosses and aunts and grandparents and they hold power in folks lives. Enough power to warrant secrecy. Enough to cause these games to not be made.