Whats so bad about the Star Wars Prequels?
- Thread starter Elfgore
- Start date
I hate the prequels because I have only seen two of them.
I kinda liked Phantom Menace, but it's been ages since I saw it so I'm not sure I can give my current opinion of how it is, but I remember enjoying it.
Clone Wars... I wont voice my opinion, but let's leave it at that I was unable to finish it. I was happy when I got interrupted while watching it.
Turned me off the third one.
I kinda liked Phantom Menace, but it's been ages since I saw it so I'm not sure I can give my current opinion of how it is, but I remember enjoying it.
Clone Wars... I wont voice my opinion, but let's leave it at that I was unable to finish it. I was happy when I got interrupted while watching it.
Turned me off the third one.
Let see-
The actings were bad in some places.
Far too much CGI (why did they had to used CGI baby Luke and Leia during the birth scene?).
It make some plotholes to 4, 5 and 6.
Had some other plots that no one really care or understand (why did the Trade Federation blockage Naboo again?)
The actings were bad in some places.
Far too much CGI (why did they had to used CGI baby Luke and Leia during the birth scene?).
It make some plotholes to 4, 5 and 6.
Had some other plots that no one really care or understand (why did the Trade Federation blockage Naboo again?)
Yes, no, he keeps women in his basement and starves them to death. Hilarious.Professor Lupin Madblood said:
EDIT: So 'disturbing' may be a bit strong. Just 'bad', I guess. It was one bad joke repeated and made more extreme in place of making different jokes.
The actual Star Wars bits are top quality, though.
they completely missed the tonal mark of the originals. The Phantom Menace was boring, Attack of the Clones was insipid, and Revenge of the Sith was too little too late, while still completely missing the point of Star Wars. Star Wars was an homage to adventure movies of the past. The Prequels are an homage to boring scenes and uninspired cinematography.
Feel free to enjoy them though
Feel free to enjoy them though
Mmm, yeah, 'cuz, y'know, it's not like he's exaggerating for comedic effect or anything. God forbid.EeviStev said:
Woo! Star Wars prequel pile-on!
In all seriousness, the Red Letter Media reviews keep getting brought up because they're THE definitive criticism of the prequels now. It's like you almost have to have seen them just to be caught up with the conversation.
Just to add my own scratches to the surface:
1) Phantom Menace isn't a movie about anything. Some people talk about not having a clear protagonist, but it's more than that. The movie is nominally about the invasion of Naboo, but probably about half of the movie's running time is spent on the other side of the galaxy doing things that are only tangentially related. The movie really only exists to put Palpatine in the Chancellorship and introduce Anakin, but neither of those pay off during the movie's running time. Neither of the movie's two leads are even from Naboo, or have any personal reason to care about it. The movie never explains what the Trade Federation is trying to accomplish and it never shows us citizens being killed or losing their homes to get us emotionally involved. The invasion is ultimately just an excuse plot, leaving the movie without any emotional core or understandable stakes.
2) Anakin's fall is neither logical nor tragic. Anakin turning into Vader was supposed to be the main point of the prequel trilogy, but it doesn't work. Watching somebody who is petulant, obnoxious, self-centered, ego-maniacal, and kind of thick fall to darkness isn't tragic. Watching a hero, someone with great promise and nobility, fall to darkness is tragic. Anakin wasn't any of those things. The first prequel movie should have been all about showing Anakin as the man that Obi-wan remembered fondly in A New Hope.
But even as assholish as Anakin was, he still didn't have a convincing reason to fall. Palpatine has nothing to offer him but extremely vague promises about figuring out how to stop his wife from dying from whatever Anakin was dreaming about her dying from. Who he then chokes to death a few hours later because she back-talked him. Anakin comes off looking like a complete idiot, not like a hero who has been corrupted by the dark side. Speaking of which...
3) Remember the Dark Side? That feeds on your anger and hate? That seduces you with the offer of fast power? Well, instead, we get the Sith, who are just force users on the bad guy's side. In the original movies, the dark side felt real and sinister. In the prequels, it felt like a hat you put on to show that you were evil now.
4) Lack of characterization. Characters are flat and dull. Dialog is flat and emotionless. The republic, its corruption and decay, and its reasons for falling are never clearly shown. There's no flavor to anything except the wacky-dacky comic relief stuff, which is awful. Instead of using imagery to reinforce themes or provide information every scene is used as an excuse to pack as much CGI clutter on the screen as possible.
In all seriousness, the Red Letter Media reviews keep getting brought up because they're THE definitive criticism of the prequels now. It's like you almost have to have seen them just to be caught up with the conversation.
Just to add my own scratches to the surface:
1) Phantom Menace isn't a movie about anything. Some people talk about not having a clear protagonist, but it's more than that. The movie is nominally about the invasion of Naboo, but probably about half of the movie's running time is spent on the other side of the galaxy doing things that are only tangentially related. The movie really only exists to put Palpatine in the Chancellorship and introduce Anakin, but neither of those pay off during the movie's running time. Neither of the movie's two leads are even from Naboo, or have any personal reason to care about it. The movie never explains what the Trade Federation is trying to accomplish and it never shows us citizens being killed or losing their homes to get us emotionally involved. The invasion is ultimately just an excuse plot, leaving the movie without any emotional core or understandable stakes.
2) Anakin's fall is neither logical nor tragic. Anakin turning into Vader was supposed to be the main point of the prequel trilogy, but it doesn't work. Watching somebody who is petulant, obnoxious, self-centered, ego-maniacal, and kind of thick fall to darkness isn't tragic. Watching a hero, someone with great promise and nobility, fall to darkness is tragic. Anakin wasn't any of those things. The first prequel movie should have been all about showing Anakin as the man that Obi-wan remembered fondly in A New Hope.
But even as assholish as Anakin was, he still didn't have a convincing reason to fall. Palpatine has nothing to offer him but extremely vague promises about figuring out how to stop his wife from dying from whatever Anakin was dreaming about her dying from. Who he then chokes to death a few hours later because she back-talked him. Anakin comes off looking like a complete idiot, not like a hero who has been corrupted by the dark side. Speaking of which...
3) Remember the Dark Side? That feeds on your anger and hate? That seduces you with the offer of fast power? Well, instead, we get the Sith, who are just force users on the bad guy's side. In the original movies, the dark side felt real and sinister. In the prequels, it felt like a hat you put on to show that you were evil now.
4) Lack of characterization. Characters are flat and dull. Dialog is flat and emotionless. The republic, its corruption and decay, and its reasons for falling are never clearly shown. There's no flavor to anything except the wacky-dacky comic relief stuff, which is awful. Instead of using imagery to reinforce themes or provide information every scene is used as an excuse to pack as much CGI clutter on the screen as possible.
Thanks for the link, it just makes it so much worse in slow motion...Gottesstrafe said:
The one point I'd add is how much this shows the contrast between the two sets of movies. In the original trilogy the fight choreographer was an Olympic fencer named Bob Anderson. He was also Darth Vader for any light saber duels. In short a talented man who had spent years stabbing other people with a sword. He knew how to make the weapons seem like they had weight and impact. While it looked a little clunkier than the dance offs the new films had, to me the duels always felt more threatening and real as a result.
But that's just it for the movies as a whole. The originals have their flaws and candid moments, but all the CG in the world doesn't make them feel any more real or compelling.
It's not Christensen's fault that all his dialogue sounds like a 12 year old writing a love poem. Haven't seen any of his other stuff, but it's really not fair to judge him based on the Star Wars prequels. Pretty sure a couple of the actors have admitted that they didn't know what the hell was going on half the time because of all the green screen.bandit0802 said:
imo, the prequels lost all sense of charm from the originals. i think it may be the CG, and the fact that the acting feels so incredibly forced, but there just isn't a comparison for me. i watched attack of the clones (which i considered to be my 'favourite' of the prequels when i was younger, probably due to the action sequences), then empire strikes back straight afterwards and there was, literally, no comparing the two. ESB just feels so much better - it may not look as nice (subjectively, i still think it looks brilliant but the visual effects aren't up to modern standards), but it's so well-made and 'real', far more so than the prequels with their dismal visual effects.
maybe it's because i've grown up quite a bit since i last saw the prequels, and the films aimed at kids don't appeal to me so much, but star wars was originally meant for the youth of the day, and it still appeals greatly to many adults today, so i don't really see that as valid. the new films feel clinical to me, even in the action scenes that are meant to be dirty and chaotic. additionally, i just found it hard to empathise with anakin in the climactic battle, after he loses his arm, whilst i actually felt sad and scared for luke after he goes through a roughly analogous experience. it's hard to explain, really, a lot of it is based on just the 'feel' of the films. but, the express purpose of these forms of media is to make you feel what the creator intended, so they just failed at an elementary level for me. unless lucas was aiming for apathy or dislike, which i somewhat doubt.
that and fuckin' jar jar, and all the cringeworthy humour that they tried to use; it felt sanitised. the original trilogy had some snark and wit, with better delivery, whilst the prequels felt much more engineered. perhaps because lucas exerted more control over the prequels, he may have kept the actors more in line and allowed for less improvisation or deviation than the originals. what springs to mind is the 'i know' line from han, just before he gets frozen in carbonite - a completely improvised line. there just doesn't seem to be anything like that in the new films, something that you don't expect, yet fits the situation and the character to a T. and i don't even want to touch the story, there are many plotholes that i'd have to re-watch the films to have to rediscover, and i don't feel like self-flagellating today.
this is all superfluous, though. as many have stated before, watch the red letter media reviews of the series (here's the link to the one for episode 1 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/ ), he does a far, far better job than i ever could in a deconstruction of the series.
maybe it's because i've grown up quite a bit since i last saw the prequels, and the films aimed at kids don't appeal to me so much, but star wars was originally meant for the youth of the day, and it still appeals greatly to many adults today, so i don't really see that as valid. the new films feel clinical to me, even in the action scenes that are meant to be dirty and chaotic. additionally, i just found it hard to empathise with anakin in the climactic battle, after he loses his arm, whilst i actually felt sad and scared for luke after he goes through a roughly analogous experience. it's hard to explain, really, a lot of it is based on just the 'feel' of the films. but, the express purpose of these forms of media is to make you feel what the creator intended, so they just failed at an elementary level for me. unless lucas was aiming for apathy or dislike, which i somewhat doubt.
that and fuckin' jar jar, and all the cringeworthy humour that they tried to use; it felt sanitised. the original trilogy had some snark and wit, with better delivery, whilst the prequels felt much more engineered. perhaps because lucas exerted more control over the prequels, he may have kept the actors more in line and allowed for less improvisation or deviation than the originals. what springs to mind is the 'i know' line from han, just before he gets frozen in carbonite - a completely improvised line. there just doesn't seem to be anything like that in the new films, something that you don't expect, yet fits the situation and the character to a T. and i don't even want to touch the story, there are many plotholes that i'd have to re-watch the films to have to rediscover, and i don't feel like self-flagellating today.
this is all superfluous, though. as many have stated before, watch the red letter media reviews of the series (here's the link to the one for episode 1 http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/ ), he does a far, far better job than i ever could in a deconstruction of the series.
Everyone else has already mentioned the RedLetterMedia videos, so I'll just say they're highly recommended watching. I'm not going to go on at length and duplicate the videos, so I'll just leave this here--let's compare the first two sentences of the opening crawls of A New Hope and The Phantom Menace, shall we?
All right! Got some action going on--civil war, rebels, and a conflict with an evil empire. Looks like we're in for a fun ride.A New Hope said:
The Phantom Menace said:
I've found the quality of the prequels to be rather uneven, rather than really bad or really good. They have good cinematography, music, special effects, and an interesting setting and story arc, but the pitfalls really are the script and some of the acting. Jar Jar was annoying, the Anakin/Padme love story was handled rather badly, and in some cases the script was terrible. But the movies aren't as bad as some make them out to be: if anything, they're terribly average films with a larger-than-life name attached to them.
This! This 110%! That book is amazing, and it makes the entire goddamn plot make sense.TakerFoxx said:
Let's see, something that hasn't already been mentioned to death...the special effects? Sith is the best-looking of all the movies, but Empire and Jedi look better than Menace or Clones. They still hold up fairly well, whereas Episodes I-II don't like satisfactorily real.
-CGI was overused for the level that CGI was at at the time.
-Way too many plot threads were crammed in there, wasting a lot of time on exposition, and causing many of them to feel rushed.
-Jar-jar, well yeah.
-Really, spending 3 movies to essentially build up to Anakin turning evil (when everyone knows the outcome beforehand) was a bit much. The fact that they kept trying to make some sort of forced tension like there was any possible good outcome there just made it a laughingstock.
-A certain level of obtrusive fanservice. 3PO, R2, and Fett all basically didn't need to be there, but got shoved in as continuity-wank.
-Lucas is not a strong writer really. He does well enough at the sort of quasi-schlock that largely made up the original and Indy, but without moderation, he falls hard when trying to do things with depth like what was attempted in the prequels.
-There was no real strong villain in the series. Maul is just this evil dude who's there with no detail whatsoever in the first one, with Sidious being almost cameo level. Palpatine's again barely on-screen in #2, though Christopher Lee does give Dooku some presence for what little time he gets. In #3, Palpatine just goes over the top hammy evil, Dooku is killed off unceremoniously, and Grievous is just kind of there much like Maul was.
-Way too many plot threads were crammed in there, wasting a lot of time on exposition, and causing many of them to feel rushed.
-Jar-jar, well yeah.
-Really, spending 3 movies to essentially build up to Anakin turning evil (when everyone knows the outcome beforehand) was a bit much. The fact that they kept trying to make some sort of forced tension like there was any possible good outcome there just made it a laughingstock.
-A certain level of obtrusive fanservice. 3PO, R2, and Fett all basically didn't need to be there, but got shoved in as continuity-wank.
-Lucas is not a strong writer really. He does well enough at the sort of quasi-schlock that largely made up the original and Indy, but without moderation, he falls hard when trying to do things with depth like what was attempted in the prequels.
-There was no real strong villain in the series. Maul is just this evil dude who's there with no detail whatsoever in the first one, with Sidious being almost cameo level. Palpatine's again barely on-screen in #2, though Christopher Lee does give Dooku some presence for what little time he gets. In #3, Palpatine just goes over the top hammy evil, Dooku is killed off unceremoniously, and Grievous is just kind of there much like Maul was.
If you want to know what makes the prequels bad as films, well then yeah. Red Letter Media. If you want to know why this trilogy is so universally despised by so many, I would say check out MovieBob's retrospective review of The Phantom Menace on this website.
It's not just a matter of the prequel films not working from a technical standpoint, but from a nostalgia standpoint as well. I would say that Bob was right when he said that there was no way the films could have possibly lived up to any expectations. The fact that the prequels were just kind of crappy on their own certainly didn't help.
As for me personally, I don't think the prequels are nearly as bad as everyone says they are. The Phantom Menace was my first Star Wars movie too. Yes, the original trilogy is much better but the prequels aren't god-awful. They're full of good ideas with terrible execution. The story of how Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader? What Star Wars fan wouldn't want to see that? I just wish they had chosen better actors to portray Anakin, I wish that someone else handled the dialogue, and I wish that The Phantom Menace actually contributed something to Anakin's character arc rather than focusing on the invasion of Naboo and political disputes (boooooring).
As for everyone's complaint about CGI, yes it is severely overused but it doesn't bother me too much. Like the 'Special Edition' re-releases it doesn't kill the experience for me (with the exception of Return of the Jedi. A pointless musical number in Jabba's Palace? Hayden Christiensen ghost? WHY!?!?) but it is distracting. Also, being emotionally connected to the action is important however I can still enjoy a fun fight scene even if I don't care who comes out alive in the end, and as pointless as it may have been, I still to this day love podracing. At the very least we got some good games out of it.
It's not just a matter of the prequel films not working from a technical standpoint, but from a nostalgia standpoint as well. I would say that Bob was right when he said that there was no way the films could have possibly lived up to any expectations. The fact that the prequels were just kind of crappy on their own certainly didn't help.
As for me personally, I don't think the prequels are nearly as bad as everyone says they are. The Phantom Menace was my first Star Wars movie too. Yes, the original trilogy is much better but the prequels aren't god-awful. They're full of good ideas with terrible execution. The story of how Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader? What Star Wars fan wouldn't want to see that? I just wish they had chosen better actors to portray Anakin, I wish that someone else handled the dialogue, and I wish that The Phantom Menace actually contributed something to Anakin's character arc rather than focusing on the invasion of Naboo and political disputes (boooooring).
As for everyone's complaint about CGI, yes it is severely overused but it doesn't bother me too much. Like the 'Special Edition' re-releases it doesn't kill the experience for me (with the exception of Return of the Jedi. A pointless musical number in Jabba's Palace? Hayden Christiensen ghost? WHY!?!?) but it is distracting. Also, being emotionally connected to the action is important however I can still enjoy a fun fight scene even if I don't care who comes out alive in the end, and as pointless as it may have been, I still to this day love podracing. At the very least we got some good games out of it.
Hey, did anybody mention Red Letter Media? Yes? A million times? Okay good, cuz I'd like to mention it a few million more times. It really oughta be a rule to just post the links and avoid discussion any time somebody asks about this.
For myself, a few additional points:
The prequel trilogy had no impact on the original. It wastes three movies telling us absolutely nothing we didn't already know or assume, or something dumber than what we knew or assumed. The only legitimate reason for the prequels to exist would be to reveal unknown truths about Anakin's descent, but none of Vader's scenes in the orginial trilogy are given any new context. (e.g. When Vader tells Luke he's his father, we've always experienced it from Luke's perspective; the prequels should have affected our perceptions of Vader enough to view that scene from his perspective, which shows his first step towards redemption, but there's nothing in the prequels that foreshadow anything about it or deepen it in anyway).
Also, George Lucas doesn't understand the Force. Midichlorians are proof enough, but it permeates every scene that involves it. Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett, and Irvin Kershner went to great lengths with Yoda to make the Force meaningful, metaphorical, and interesting - something spiritual, beyond the physical. In the prequels it's just a super power. Yoda nor the Emperor should have ever been shown to hold a lightsaber. One of the few things the prequels did right was end the third movie with a Yoda/Emperor showdown, but then they fucked it up by having it be a physical fight. Something akin to Bastilla's Battle Meditation (from KOTOR) would have been more appropriate.
And lastly, CGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGI fucking sssssssssuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing in the prequels, or any other live-action movie with CGI (with a few exceptions), looked anywhere near as good as Lando flying the Falcon through the bowels of the Death Star.
Couldn't have said it better - wait, yes I can!!! Not "almost", but "definitely". If you still like them despite all that stuff, power to you, but you should never again have to ask anybody else why they don't.BloodSquirrel said:
For myself, a few additional points:
The prequel trilogy had no impact on the original. It wastes three movies telling us absolutely nothing we didn't already know or assume, or something dumber than what we knew or assumed. The only legitimate reason for the prequels to exist would be to reveal unknown truths about Anakin's descent, but none of Vader's scenes in the orginial trilogy are given any new context. (e.g. When Vader tells Luke he's his father, we've always experienced it from Luke's perspective; the prequels should have affected our perceptions of Vader enough to view that scene from his perspective, which shows his first step towards redemption, but there's nothing in the prequels that foreshadow anything about it or deepen it in anyway).
Also, George Lucas doesn't understand the Force. Midichlorians are proof enough, but it permeates every scene that involves it. Lawrence Kasdan, Leigh Brackett, and Irvin Kershner went to great lengths with Yoda to make the Force meaningful, metaphorical, and interesting - something spiritual, beyond the physical. In the prequels it's just a super power. Yoda nor the Emperor should have ever been shown to hold a lightsaber. One of the few things the prequels did right was end the third movie with a Yoda/Emperor showdown, but then they fucked it up by having it be a physical fight. Something akin to Bastilla's Battle Meditation (from KOTOR) would have been more appropriate.
And lastly, CGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGICGI fucking sssssssssuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing in the prequels, or any other live-action movie with CGI (with a few exceptions), looked anywhere near as good as Lando flying the Falcon through the bowels of the Death Star.