I think the reason for Cthulhu's popularity is part of a much bigger question and if we knew the answer to that, we would know a lot more about the nature of the Internet than we do now.
However, you really can't judge the man's stories based on their concept. I mean without watching the movie I could say that Alien was just about an animal with good predatory skills (I don't read much so I can't give analogy of another book.) Most of it is down to the execution and without reading any of the stories you can't understand why people think they're good.
I think the reason for Cthulhu's popularity is part of a much bigger question and if we knew the answer to that, we would know a lot more about the nature of the Internet than we do now.
However, you really can't judge the man's stories based on their concept. I mean without watching the movie I could say that Alien was just about an animal with good predatory skills (I don't read much so I can't give analogy of another book.) Most of it is down to the execution and without reading any of the stories you can't understand why people think they're good.
Even letting the 'rip-off' factor slide, why is Cthulhu scary? I've never understood why something so, how do I put it, 'far-fetched', is considered scary. Surely the scariest stories are about things that you interact with all the time, and consider to be comforting or at least benign, turning out to be anything but.
Well, up until that point, that was certainly true, and the more frequently explored theme of horror. Lovecraft had the reverse opinion, that the truly terrifying concept was that man was not in fact relevant in the universe at all, that there were horrors and madness so cataclysmic in their scale that anything we could relate to would pale in comparison with it, beings to whom mankind was nothing more than a mild distraction or plaything. Personally, I agree, I am much more terrified by the concept of a universe that cares nothing for my existence filled with horrors that would tear apart my very mind if I were to look upon them, than my neighbour being a child molester. Fears like the latter are what made us create locks and security cameras. Fears like the ones Lovecraft was trying to exploit, though, they are what made us create gods.
Then again, now that I think about it, perhaps it's just an extension of the 'things you interact with and trust turning out to be completely different to what you had believed' scenario, rather than something completely different, but where that thing you interact with and have faith in isn't next door's dog or the postman or your spouse, but the very fabric of reality itself. Overall, I don't think either is 'better,' just that they play upon different fears and questions that lurk in the average person's head.
NinjaDeathSlap said:
Cthulhu is nothing more than the bastard love-child already established ideas masquerading as something original, which Lovecraft used to underpin the plot of pretty much everything he ever wrote (seriously "Guy sees Cthulhu/something to do with Cthulhu and goes slightly batty" could be the plot summary of the vast majority of his works) so I don't get why people are so taken by it.
Incidentally, I do remember in one of his stories (I forget which one), the main character is a horror writer, whose friend mocks him because all his stories are essentially the same (man meets unknowable being, goes insane and/or dies). Even Lovecraft was well aware that he was really just re-using the same formula for 90% of his stuff. He just turned out to be pretty good at it, in the opinions of many.
kuyo said:
one time, I tried to get into the mythos by reading the books, so I went to the library to read a few. They were completely indecipherable. Each one had a first page that required a computer at hand just to look up every other word because it was some other monster that I didn't know about. I'm not going to do that, so I'm just going to replace all the stuff that isn't properly explained with highschool girls making duck faces.
That's a fair point, but Lovecraft deliberately didn't want you to know what he was referencing. I've always found the whole mythos label to be a bit misleading, because there wasn't really a true backstory, just Lovecraft occasionally throwing in references to some all-powerful creatures here and there, to reinforce the fact that you really can't understand the universe and the things that inhabit it. He was a bit of a cheater, really. The mythos was more of just a way to tie together his various stories, and imply that there was a greater force at work. I guess that was really the only option he had though, since you can't really go into an in-depth description of things that, 30 seconds ago, you had claimed were indescribable, and would drive a man insane at the mere mentioning of them. I guess if you want a good analogy, remember the Clone Wars from Star Wars, and how interesting and epic and vast they sounded before you actually knew what was involved, at which point they were just annoying? Well, Lovecraft figured out that people's imaginations will create far scarier stuff to fill in the blanks than he ever could, so he just sort of left them there, with the odd hint now and then to help fuel the imagination.
read the only story to feature Cthulhu in a main role. but more than that, read the rest of the stories. Cthulhu is just the most famous of Lovecraft's creations.
Most people call Stephen King the master of horror, Stephen King says the same thing about Lovecraft.
Cthulhu, and all of the other Old Ones, respectfully, are "scary" because of what they represent in the mythology. We, as humans, like to think that we are the ones in charge of the universe, but the old ones in this story have been around far longer than us, and in addition to beng all powerful, impervious to death, and highly unscrupulous, the terrifying part is that when they come back our civilization is over with. Said and done, gone, we degenerate into beasts and revel in joy and horror, killing, and destroying any remants of the governments and cities we created. The old ones arent just the apocalypse, they are the symbol of a new dark age that in the lovecraft writings was all but inevitable.They would be the new masters of our world, and the few humans who remain wil change into something else entirely, something closer to them... That is why cthulhu is scary.
one time, I tried to get into the mythos by reading the books, so I went to the library to read a few. They were completely indecipherable. Each one had a first page that required a computer at hand just to look up every other word because it was some other monster that I didn't know about. I'm not going to do that, so I'm just going to replace all the stuff that isn't properly explained with highschool girls making duck faces.
That's a fair point, but Lovecraft deliberately didn't want you to know what he was referencing. I've always found the whole mythos label to be a bit misleading, because there wasn't really a true backstory, just Lovecraft occasionally throwing in references to some all-powerful creatures here and there, to reinforce the fact that you really can't understand the universe and the things that inhabit it. He was a bit of a cheater, really. The mythos was more of just a way to tie together his various stories, and imply that there was a greater force at work. I guess that was really the only option he had though, since you can't really go into an in-depth description of things that, 30 seconds ago, you had claimed were indescribable, and would drive a man insane at the mere mentioning of them. I guess if you want a good analogy, remember the Clone Wars from Star Wars, and how interesting and epic and vast they sounded before you actually knew what was involved, at which point they were just annoying? Well, Lovecraft figured out that people's imaginations will create far scarier stuff to fill in the blanks than he ever could, so he just sort of left them there, with the odd hint now and then to help fuel the imagination.
Except this had so much nonsense that none of the sentences meant anything.
Anyway, why would you make a clone army out of some guy who isn't a jedi? I can think of nothing more lethal than an Agent 47 that can use the force. (He was a clone right? I didn't really pay attention to the story cause I figured an assassin wouldn't care about all that intrigue stuff.)
He's just a giant alien that is hundreds of billions of years old, and has been drowsing in his pad at the bottom of the ocean since before humans existed.
For me personally, I'm a fan of Lovecraft and Cthulhu seems to be his poster-boy. Though, 'Call of Cthulhu', which contains the only major appearance of Mr.C, isn't even in my top five fave Lovecraft yarns.
I've never understood why something so, how do I put it, 'far-fetched', is considered scary. Surely the scariest stories are about things that you interact with all the time, and consider to be comforting or at least benign, turning out to be anything but.
The scary thing about cthulhu isn't his monstrosity, or even his omnipotence. Its just how fundamentally wrong he is. His existence causes basic arithmetic to break down, with cause and effect getting warped. The most fundamental things you take for granted about the universe, like the existence of the number 1, gets thrown out the window. Nothing makes sense, nothing is real, no one can tell if their suffering from mass hysteria or eldritch manipulation. Since all forms of rational thinking are gone, nothing but fear is left.
Cthulhu himself isn't even the big bad, he's just a messenger. The real big bads are simply incomprehensible. Check out the relevent TvTropes articles for more information on cosmic horror than you could possibly handle
he can operate power armor/play the piano/open a can of soda without using hands, feet or telepathic powers. plus if he's real and ever bothers to show up id probably be smart to be on his side.
His work and its extended universe however, only remained in the popular conscience due to the distinct imagery associated with it. And the recent surge in popularity is due to the internet generations' more bleak outlook toward life. This especially rings true for the use of Cthulhu Inc. juxtaposed to some form of more sacchrine style or character type, like Hello Cthulhu or The Unspeakable Vault. Seriously, google any given name or phrase associated with them and half of the links and a quarter of the images will be from some form of joke site.
It's not quite so readily apparent, due to the nature of the works being very different from the standard suspense-shock treatment in most horror settings. Slasher films and survival horror games are good examples of the standard sort of "scary".
Cthulhu and other Lovecraftian horrors are better described as "Cosmic Horror Stories [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CosmicHorrorStory]", which plays up the potency of the antagonist considerably. The villains in slasher films are inhumanly tough (and persistent), but they're made to induce pure panic; they also are usually stopped by the end of it all. Cosmic horror stories on the other hand? The point is to show that the cast is helplessness and ineffective, and quite often the villain might as well be omnipotent. The point isn't to make the audience jump, but rather to make them feel uneasy and nervous... to the point you wish something shocking would happen. Somewhat more an intellectual sort of horror, rather than the instinctive variety (most horrors prey on primal fears).
To be honest, I don't have that experience with Lovecraft's works; I've only read At the Mountains of Madness (which was prompted by the relevant episode of The Big Picture [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3281-The-Numbers] on this site). It certainly wasn't conventionally scary (and it had an annoying fondness of purple prose), but it had an atmosphere to it. The journey of the two primary characters into an utterly alien location was spooky, and the reveal that some part of it still survives serves to tell how great a danger it is. It never really made me jump, and wasn't all that frightening... but it could be quite unsettling, persistently unsettling.
Still, I can see how the whole "driven mad from seeing Cthulhu" thing is rather silly. The description of the monster in the book seemed self-depreciating ("somethiing a fantasy author was call 'thing that should not be", and that's almost verbatim). In text, it's practically silly. Fortunately, more visual media does have a vague equivalent -- psychological horror [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychologicalHorror] and surreal horror [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SurrealHorror]. Combined with the feeling of helplessness cosmic horror stories (try to) evoke, the effects are more potent than that of more conventional horror; it's also not uncommon for the audience to keep feeling uneasy long after they have stopped reading/watching.
---
One things sentience comes with is the idea that humans are never helpless, which usually leads to a sense of arrogance and a feeling of power over what you're doing. Even when faced with something super-human, it never quite feels insurmountable. Conventional horror tries to trigger the audience's survival instincts, and they're good at it.
Cosmic horror stories are there to make the mere idea of surviving a false hope.
Doom is inevitable.
You're powerless.
IMHO, Cthullu, or any other Lovecraftian creation isn't particularly scary, especially not nowdays, after popular culture has put them through the wringer, and any idiot can claim to be the next Lovecraft ("I'll use the word "Cyclopean" somewhere, that means big, right? And I'll stick "non-Euclidean" in as well...dunno what it means, but Lovecraft said it, and he was a great writer, so if I say it, everyone will love me as well!")
He was very good at creating an atmosphere of dread, though. The Whisperer in the Darkness, for example, though it has a conventionally scary ending, was frightening the whole way through...but when you stop and think about it, an alien race coming to Earth away from population centres, making sure not to interact with humanity, solely for the purpose of quarrying stone they don't have where they come from shouldn't be that scary. But Lovecraft somehow made it so.
but when you stop and think about it, an alien race coming to Earth away from population centres, making sure not to interact with humanity, solely for the purpose of quarrying stone they don't have where they come from shouldn't be that scary. But Lovecraft somehow made it so.
I never found Lovecraft scary, madness holds no fear for me I'm not perfectly sane at any rate so eh. And a unfathomable super being is at this point in fiction old hat. Of course I had already know alot about the Chaos gods of warhammer 40k which make Cthulhu look like a scared child.
To call it old hat as if it were playing upon something else is really kind of disrespectful, seeing as it is the hat that all other hats are based upon. And as for the entire "Chaos Gods" taken from Cthulhu by the way - it came first in the time line, so it trumps all those trying to steal their style... and their various races that can be taken out by a bunch of guys with chainsaw sword while not being able to look behind them or scratch their own nose - sans chain-blade - does not quite make me quake in my boots.
As for the "not scared save for Frankenstein" Well... Victorian Horror as it were, comprised of the traditional monsters... played upon fables, folklore, and old scary stories. But the greatest part, as mentioned above, was bringing rationale to the mix.
The difference was, the rational in Lovecraft's work was that there was little to no rational. And before that, besides the Greek's very few actually tried saying that "God" was not "God" but a race of, as paraphrased before, "God-like abilities given to Dragons crossed with Krakens." - Which: That is always an artistic portrayal... imagine something along the lines of a space brain and a million octopuses all clumped together with giant eyes and scaled portions, and the only thing people could come up with upon that description - which is still a 'only what a human could perceive' was what someone drew, labeled Cthulhu, and everyone just kind of said 'good enough, yeah lets just draw that from now on.' - is it was very against the idea of what a "God" was back then. All prior forms of "God" or "Gods" were man shaped, or at least appeared somewhat human.
The Elder Gods, were comprised of an entire pantheon of beings that created and twisted the universe upon itself. Simply by existing. Most of them, did not intentionally seek out or do any particular malevolence... it wasn't that they were trying to make people go insane, it just happened. They floated through space, and just altered reality. Water became flammable, people would turn inside out or suddenly start looking like abstract paintings, the world would invert, dissolve or shift simply by having one of the Elder Gods in the same general galaxy as it.
Cthulhu was just one that was focused on, and the most stories written about. But others were written about. And it has spread to other mediums.
Think about the Silver Surfer for a moment. A person, taken from a world. Forced to travel ahead of a planet eating demi-god beast, that devours life and energy to continue living.
Now, take Nyarlathotep.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep
Nyarlathotep is what effectively inspired the Silver Surfer, and a great portion of the stories of Lovecraft use him as an avatar and way of explaining what is going on. His job, for the most part: Go ahead to inhabited planets in the path of the old ones and kind of let them know that they should expect for their world to unravel (as mentioned above) and to not totally freak out. You know, nearly exactly what the Silver Surfer does. Only, without that whole rebelling against Galactis.
Yes I realize that Chaos was inspired by Lovecraft, I didn't say it wasn't interesting I just said it didn't scare me. I find the Mythos interesting was in an annoyed I hate the internet mood when I wrote that.
Wasn't there a call of Cthulhu game a while back? Was it any good?
Most of the poeple I meet in real life who are "into" cthulhu are hipster about it, despite only really getting into it after he became really popular. These are the people who have those shirts and stuff that say my little cthulhu or whatever.
me personally, I never read those books, mostly cause of the hipster impression I get from them. I want no part in it, just like i want no part in magic for the same reason. But I would guess its because (from what I understand second hand) hes the ultimate god mod being. Which makes me just link it to being a troll, and gives me another reason not to associate with it.
Go read the 'Call of Cthulhu' Seriously It will take you like an hour at most and you can read it for free since its in the public domain. Basically pop culture has turned the idea of lovecraftian horror around and turned Cthulhu into a monster rather than what he truly represents: the insignificance of mankind. Whats scary isn't that hes some big gribbly monster that eats you, its that he doesn't. He revels in the madness he spreads and everything mankind has achieved is torn apart in a holocaust of exctasy and insanity. He doesn't have an evil plan to corrupt mankind or rule over us, he just is and we are little more than temporary playthings. Sort of like how a child will destroy and anthill for fun but pretty much ignore the ants otherwise. That is what the great old ones are. Chaos and death as humanity tears itself apart with the realisation that we are a pointless and directionless species.
And thats just one story, there are a whole lot of other lovecraftian stories that don't even touch on the Cthulhu mythos and many are excellent as cosmic horror or horrific sci-fi.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600031h.html#04
Thats a link to the collected works. Give them a look if you have the time.
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