What's so wrong with FFXII?

[Harlequin_Z01]

I can only reiterate a lot of the points people have already made really.

After 10 games of the same but generally well done thing. Risks have to be taken and changes have to be made. This is a series which not only has done more or less the same thing for 10 games but has prompted an entire genre of games doing pretty much the same thing. So I applaud them for trying something else.

That said I wasn't a fan of it. The story and characters were understated and the battle system, while actually quite fun to watch at times, was lacking in the few shreds of interactivity that qualified past Final Fantasy's as a game. Once you got your gambits sorted and your characters all kitted up to be green mages the only thing that remained was the MMO style grindfest of putting your controller down in a place where enemies spawn frequently and walking away. That doesn't make for an interesting game.

Also it may be possible that my points are invalid and the game takes a turn for sheer brilliance during the last half because I never finished it.

Also also, lay off Balthier! He was the only character who kept me interested in that game.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

You've pointed out that "fans" seem to dislike FFXII. This is probably because it's radically different from all FFs that came before it. Keep in mind that fans are stupid and hate it when things change: see "They Changed It Now It Sucks" [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks].

Critics, who are generally much smarter than fans, loved this game. A countdown of the 100 best games of all time (a few years old now but still relevant) rated it the 8th best game of all time, even though they were supposed to have no more than 1 installment per series (it came in 10 spots ahead of FFVII at #18). So the correct answer is; ignore the people who don't like it; they don't know shit about what makes a good game.

 

[Carnagath]

Really, if you have not finished all the hunts in the game, you have actually not experienced it. Fights like Behemoth King, Hell Wyrm, Omega MkXII and Yiazmat are the reason why the gambit system is there and is shaped like it is. Those fights would be impossible to do in an old FF combat style, they are massive, long, hard and require constant refinement of your gambit strategy, DURING combat. The essence of the game is there, it is there that you begin to scrape the surface of what Square can do with this system. The story fights are laughable so that anyone can easily beat them, indeed, but if you own the game and stopped there, do yourselves a favor and go back to complete the hunts.

 

[Doug]

Uh, well, if you're asking me personally, I'd have to say "It's a JRPG."

This. JRPGs == Evil.

 

[Loves2spooge]

And if your wondering if I'm a little pissed? yeah I am. XII is a sore spot because people are so dumb when it comes to it. and YEAH it is your opinion but guess what, that can still be stupid and I can still call it stupid! and when you hear the same drivel enough you just get sick of it.

Jesus Christ, calm down, you didn't make the game. And if you think people not liking something makes them dumb, then you yourself are stupid, or at least ignorant. Maybe if you listened to other peoples opinions rather than refuting everything they offer with an insulting remark you'd start seeing from a different point of view.

Some people just didn't like the game. I've played and finished the vast majority of Final Fantasy games and I can honestly see where they're coming from. The game can feel like you have little to no quarter over the plot thanks to an uninvolved main character, and the combat system while very well honed had its flaws in that it simply wasn't that enjoyable. Gambits were poorly implemented and people opted to avoid them in favour of controlling character actions themselves (which would've been good if they included the option), developing your character's skills were mis-directed, the plot was convoluted and unfolded in haphazard fashion. And these issues are just the start.

Personally, I think the biggest flaw with the game was that you simply didn't care about the characters, most of them seemed too set on the plot which players didn't care about anyway, and they had little to no influence upon each other. Let me put it like this; it's like my brother who's enthusiastic about cars one day decides to take me on a trip to a bunch of car shows, educates me on different aspects of the industry and mechanics, how the market works, key figures throughout the history of its development. I'll probably learn something along the way but more than anything I'll still probably not give a shit about cars!

It's just how it is. I wish it was a better game, and I wish I could've liked it more; but not liking it doesn't make you "dumb". If anything it makes you more open minded for noticing its flaws and not just seeing it as a Final Fantasy game.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The story sucked. It was sooo meh and forgettable that it was just a piece of shit. By the end of it I could not even remember who I had fought, who was the bad guy or what I was even fighting for.
It did however have the most enjoyable exploring and fighting system of all of them. Fuck your battle gauge. Let me set gambits and just let my characters do all the work for me!

My thoughts exactly.

I loved the fighting and the free roaming nature of the game. But the characters, Jesus Christ, they were BORING.

 

[Vlane]

Uh, well, if you're asking me personally, I'd have to say "It's a JRPG."

This. JRPGs == Evil.

Games == Evil.

 

[S.M.N._Fly]

Good show, Rockerfly.

My own complaints about FFXII is that it's combat system was clunky as all get out. The pseudo-real-time system was... admirable (I guess, if you're looking at the fact that it's not the same as the other FFs), but it just doesn't work. A character should not have to ready their sword for 5 seconds before attacking, and the only use of positioning is in the back for magic and clipping with the enemy for melee (even then some of the characters will run right up to the enemies to cast Fire, possibly to augment the hatred one might already have for the character). To my knowledge, there's no dodge move. One can't dodge a move by running around an enemy due to the fact enemies have the ability to spin around to keep up with you, even in mid-lunge, or by simply running away from the enemy because all their attacks have enough force behind them that the air will hit you with full impact.

Clunky and not in the least bit entertaining, that battle system was.

 

[ohellynot]

Uh, well, if you're asking me personally, I'd have to say "It's a JRPG."

I've never heard of a fan actually complain about it, though.

I have and I honestly don't understand it. (thus the thread)

never played it myself but I really want to.
I'm just being pikey, it only costs a fiver

 

[Zeromaeus]

Dude, calm down, its a game.
No, Vaan wasn't important, yes, you could do turn by turn tactics with each character, no, they're not stupid. Blah...
I think I'm getting a good idea of why people didn't like it. Yes, the pacing was about par with the tutorial section of Kingdom Hearts 2.
...
I liked the liscense board by the way. It wasn't hard to figure out where the various types of liscences were, and the quickenings were marked, so I thought it was kinda cool...
...
I also liked the new summons...
Zeromus, Adremmalech, and Zodiark were pretty awesome...
...
Thats just me though.

Vaan was probably my biggest amusement with the game because the whole adventure seems to be the karma wrought by Gabranth killing his brother. -Your brother died so you can hang out with Balthier, Ashe, and Basch (the main characters of the game)-

I never used Fran 'cuz I didn't care about Fran. She was an extra really.
(My party was Vaan (for his stats), Basch, Ashe/Balthier (I switched them out))

The music was so-so.

Honestly though, I've never spent more time on a Final Fantasy. Dark Cloud 2 and Pokemon are the only games that beat it in JRPG time.

On a side note I can't seem to beat Omega Mark XII. How can a mimic be that strong?

 

[Da_Schwartz]

I wish i had an answer for you. I'm a big FF fan, always have been, prob always will be. But there was just something about 12. Wether it was the plot, the score, the voice acting, or character + main game storylines, whatever it was i simply didn't care about what was going on. It never captured and enthralled me the way other titles did.

 

[Zeromaeus]

It seems fem. Cloud and Jay (of the Silent Bob variety) should keep FF XIII interesting...

 

[Andronicus]

The thing I like most about Final Fantasy games is the music. In all past iterations, the music has been appropriate and memorable. You can thank Uematsu for that. In FFXII, they only managed to get one of them right; it was appropriate, but it just kind of floated around in the background, never to be hummed on the way home from school or work again.

The story is very politically-orientated; it all really depends if you're into that thing or not. I don't mind it, but it was a little hard to follow at times.

Really, if you have not finished all the hunts in the game, you have actually not experienced it. Fights like Behemoth King, Hell Wyrm, Omega MkXII and Yiazmat are the reason why the gambit system is there and is shaped like it is. Those fights would be impossible to do in an old FF combat style, they are massive, long, hard and require constant refinement of your gambit strategy, DURING combat.

Doing the hunt quests all depended on whether you could find the bastards first. Some of the higher level ones will only appear if you use certain characters, look in a specific spot, search at the right time, stuff like that, and it was all very annoying. And let's be honest; gambits were bloody useless in boss fights. I only ever used them when grinding, and even then I had to step in every now and again to point them in the right direction. I prefered to have that little bit of extra control anyway.

 

[Jim Grim]

What's this? People have "opinions?"

God help us.

Yes, and look! Someone has asked people the reasons for their opinions, on an internet forum aswell! A medium specifically designed for people to share their opinions!

 

[rokkolpo]

i loved it.

no complaining here,awesome cutscenes now and then.

 

[Carnagath]

Doing the hunt quests all depended on whether you could find the bastards first. Some of the higher level ones will only appear if you use certain characters, look in a specific spot, search at the right time, stuff like that, and it was all very annoying. And let's be honest; gambits were bloody useless in boss fights. I only ever used them when grinding, and even then I had to step in every now and again to point them in the right direction. I prefered to have that little bit of extra control anyway.

It's hardly as bad as you make it sound. Yes, some hunts have a few conditions to be met for the mark to appear, like it needs to be raining etc, but there's really no problem in consulting a guide if you are stuck on a specific hunt. The high end targets are certainly worth all the trouble of getting there, being probably the most brutal tactical and endurance fights in the history of the game's series, and that is because Square used a high-end raiding MMO mentality to design those fights. And yes, let's be honest, gambits were useless in boss fights? This clearly shows that you did not advance enough through the game, maybe you beat the story, but even that I doubt. Damn near half of the optional Espers in the game are gambit based fights, and try to defeat Omega Mk12 without using gambits, try to play it "old FF style", and then post a video of it and I will give you a million bucks myself .

 

[Mirroga]

The thing that put me down is that they storyline and setting felt like it was trying to become Star Wars. Also, the gambits pretty much made the game boring as an RPG. RPGs should also have a rule that enemies reflect to the players' overall levels, thus doing a balance between low levels and high levels thus making decisions and not simply grinding silly.

 

[Syntax Error]

Ok. Alright. I get it. Most Final Fantasy fans seem to really dislike Final Fantasy XII. Why? What's so wrong with it? Why is it considered in such low regard? Seriously.

The main reason I ask is because I saw it as a rather solid Final Fantasy experience. The story was solid (even though Vaan didn't figure into it at all). The gameplay worked. Gambits were a neat feature. Hunts and side-quests were plentiful. The summons were awesome (although I missed Odin).

Seriously guys, what was wrong with Final Fantasy Twelve?

In a word, it was forgettable. Don't get me wrong, it was still a good game, but you don't feel invested with the characters (like you would have in other FF games). Vaan and Penelo are pretty much non-persons. Ashe and Basch (teehee) at least had semi-pseudo backstories and Balthier and Fran are showstealers (the only people with personalities in the game, IMO). That, and according to the GameFAQs boards, it's basically Final Fantasy Star Wars (which could be a good or bad thing, depending on who you ask).

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

For me, it took far too long to go anywhere. I got to the first questing area and had already forgotten why I was there and what I was doing.

FFVII, FFVIII and FFIX kept things very linear and direct 'go here, kill this, come back' FFXII had a nice linear start, then was suddenly 'right, go into the world and figure things out for yourself.'

Sometimes I want a directed game experience.

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

They thought it was too different? I liked it, Gambits are neat, and we actually have pseudo real-time battles now (finally). Now if only we had a proper large ham, rather than just Balthier with his "I'm the leading man" shtick.