What's with all the "ism's" as of late?

[Canadamus Prime]

If we're being honest, that one about Street Fighter is the first one in a while that I've seen, but still I can't help but roll my eyes and wonder why we have to go over every bit of art with the lens of isms instead of just enjoying it for what it is.

Well now that only works for you as long as your enjoyment is not diminished precisely by the presence of certain "-isms", doesn't it.

Well if you go looking for isms you're certain to find them, whether they were intentional or not.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Intentions don't matter all that much.

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

 

[odinzeus]

Games make you violent,misogynistic,racist,sexist,immature,dumb,anti-social and even make you shoot up schools.
Every american political party - left or right,hate games.They just can't take a break.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Well if you go looking for isms you're certain to find them, whether they were intentional or not.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Intentions don't matter all that much.

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

I don't think that many people complaining about the presence of isms if said if they are present in order to be critized. As long as this criticim isn't just lip service, of course.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well if you go looking for isms you're certain to find them, whether they were intentional or not.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Intentions don't matter all that much.

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

I don't think that many people complaining about the presence of isms if said if they are present in order to be critized. As long as this criticim isn't just lip service, of course.

I'm not sure I understand what you just said.

 

[CloudAtlas]

Well if you go looking for isms you're certain to find them, whether they were intentional or not.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Intentions don't matter all that much.

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

I don't think that many people complaining about the presence of isms if said if they are present in order to be critized. As long as this criticim isn't just lip service, of course.

I'm not sure I understand what you just said.

Contrary to what you seemed to imply, people generally don't complain about the existence of e.g. sexism if the sexism is there for a purpose in this work, and this purpose would be to show that sexism is bad.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well if you go looking for isms you're certain to find them, whether they were intentional or not.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Intentions don't matter all that much.

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

I don't think that many people complaining about the presence of isms if said if they are present in order to be critized. As long as this criticim isn't just lip service, of course.

I'm not sure I understand what you just said.

Contrary to what you seemed to imply, people generally don't complain about the existence of e.g. sexism if the sexism is there for a purpose in this work, and this purpose would be to show that sexism is bad.

That was just an example. An artist could be making any number of possible statements with their work, which may or may not have anything to do with any isms.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Games are just becoming increasingly influental and are maturing as a medium. Games are attempting to tell more mature stories, stories that adress sexism, racism and such. Consequently, if they do, people talk about it. Games are also increasingly held to the same standards as other forms of entertainment, which have been criticised for their problematic content for much longer. And gamers themselves are growing up with their industry, there are more and more older gamers, and their preferences might not be the same as they once were. If you're 40 years old, married, and father of a daughter, chances are you think differently about the content of your games, the messages they might send her, as you did when you were 15.

Name at least 10 games that had mature storyline / custom societies or universes. I doubt your claim (bold).

Note that he said "attempting". We occasionally have a Journey or other mature game and, if you are willing to extend the limit, some visual novels (don't start with me) have mature storylines.

The problem to me is the conflict between games being a commercial product and an artistic one. Developers have to weigh between a good story and making a product most people want and while a good story can be good, it may conflict with gameplay as the whole over blown Ludonarrative Dissonance controversy can somewhat attest to. Games can get to the point where they can serve like film as commentary on social issues and the like but it will take quite a while.

 

[Qvar]

Contrary to what you seemed to imply, people generally don't complain about the existence of e.g. sexism if the sexism is there for a purpose in this work, and this purpose would be to show that sexism is bad.

I have a problem with that IF. This "people" you talk about won't be happy if, instead, the game (or movie, book, whatever) makes casual mention of sexism/racism. You just can't state that "And Phil told Mark that all women are bitches" without then remarking that "and that makes him a dick", else a horde of so-called feminists will rip your guts, as if we were all retarded and unable to judge by ourselves who is right and who is wrong.

These are the same bright people that see the "dev intent to make the main character likable" behind every asshol-ish main character you get to play (check the topic about the Dracula game). And I wouldn't be surprised if they also are the same ones who feel entitled to save women who willingly exercise prostitution from themselves.

Man, does this people make me angry.

ps: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndThatsTerrible

 

[Raikas]

I'm saying that if you go looking for isms, you're going to find them. Even if they were not intended by the author/creator. Also intentions do matter. If the author was trying to make a statement with his/her work, perhaps even drawing attention to said isms, pointing the finger of isms can undermine that.

I think sometimes people create something with the goal of drawing attention to something which can be misinterpreted, so I think pointing that out can be useful.

And similarly someone may not intend to write an "ism", but if they rely on stereotypes (and plenty of people do without thinking), pointing to that isn't the same as calling the creator a bigot - it's just drawing attention to it.

Personally, I think there could be a lot of really interesting discussion about the use of (sometimes unfortunate) stereotypes in games (and across different media), and I hate that it gets bogged down by people on the two extremes who want to insist that it either makes the whole objectionable or that none of it is objectionable at all.

 

[FalloutJack]

People overthinking things about games without actually doing any thinking at all. That's what it's all about.