What's with the extreme Nintendo Hate?

[MetalDooley]

All of them: pushing the "better graphics = better games" mentality

To be fair Nintendo are probably the only major company who aren't constantly pushing for better graphics.I mean they released an SD console at a time when everyone was jumping aboard the HD bandwagon.Their handhelds have always had inferior specs to their rivals and their games tend more towards colorful,cartoony graphics rather than hyper realistic

I'm not talking story, I'm talking set-up. Instead of Mario saving Peach in the same Mushroom Kingdom setting, have the main character be like an Indian princess in a magical Hindoe world or something. It can have the same amount of gameplay focus as Mario or Zelda, but the shift in set-up can turn it into a vastly different experience. Just look at Okami.

You mean the Okami that's been called the best Zelda game not made by Nintendo?Don't get me wrong I think Okami is a fantastic game but to say it's a vastly different experience is overexaggerating just a tad.Okami is pretty much a Zelda game with a different coat of paint.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Hello, I'm one of the many people on here who love the Big N! When it comes to Nintendo hate...I dunno, everything has it's haters. The Wii U needs more exclusives for one thing. The Wii-mote/Nunchuck control scheme is something I absolutely hate on a personal level. The Gamecube...is fucking awesome and is without fault. I'm not sure about hardware problems though...I have a DSLite which I bought used years ago and still use on a semi-regular basis. That's nothing though, compared to the original Brick Game Boy that was shot in Desert Storm and yet did not die. Maybe the Wii died but the handheld consoles and past consoles seem to have great longevity.

The biggest criticism I can levy against Nintendo is the slow software releases for the U and sub-par 3rd party support. I can't wait for Deus Ex Human Revolution U but I've beaten that game on the 360...and first played it on the PS3...Oh well, there are plenty of GBA, DS, Gamecube and, Wii games that I haven't played yet and can probably grab on the cheap (well not the GBA games...those get pricy).

I'll complain again if the next Zelda and Mario and 1st party Nintendo games on the U use only the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo. I'm hoping motion controls get phased out.

 

[nathan-dts]

Company has lived on gimmicks and the same IPs for a long time, and their failure is a result of them using a gimmick that isn't hugely popular, tablets. They deserve hardships for being some of the laziest people in the industry. When they start making an effort they'll be liked again.

 

[jpoon]

I don't hate them per se, they just aren't good at what they do and being a wii U owner I have more than enough room to tell nintendo's "leadership" that they are morons.

At every single step they ignore what the fans are asking for (more games in general of course) and they give us little beyond complete shit (every week!). Look at the "new" Virtual Console. They picked some of the worst damn games I could have ever picked.

The leadership of nintendo is attrocious, they literally ALL need to be forced out and new blood needs to be brought in to replace the old moldy fucks (GtFO Iwata & Reggie). Bring in new IP's (that aren't kids games), bring the real VC games that people want (no fucking balloon fight type games, fucking dipshits), and just stop being corporate stooges because everyone and their mother know that you (nintendo) are now at the bottom of the damn barrel.

I can only imagine the damage control coming once the PS4 & nextbox come out, nintendo is going to be giving out handjobs with every console to get this PoS moving.

Buy Nintendo, the Contrarian-Machine?. Instead of moving forward, we move diagonally-down!

 

[Lrbearclaw]

1) Endless re-using of the same IP, refusal to try any new IP
2) Wii's motion sensor being a piece of shit with delay/accuracy frustrations for a VERY long time
3) Innovative control methods purely for the sake for innovation and no practical reason. "At least it's unique" is not a fucking justification, a sandwich filled with shit is also unique
4) Catering to casual gamers while throwing hardcore gamers out on their asses
5) Refusal to use decent hardware, it was either having games look like shit (or use cell shading) or not having graphics-heavy games at all
6) Terrible third party support
7) Did I mention terrible hardware support?

1) So unlike Call of Duty, Battlefield and Halo?
2) While the Kinect and PS-Move are amazingly accurate?
3) I know! We'll add a gyro to the controller so when someone tips the controller while turning it does something!
4) Because no Nintendo players EVER go for 100% completion.
5) You're right! I mean, look at the rich detail of the grey and browns that cover nearly all of CoD's screen.
6) You mean the quality items made by Nyko and MadCatz?
7) Do you even remember the Red Ring of Death?

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Oh definitely, and that's why I understand why they haven't released a new IP or are spending a long time on their next one.

I feel Nintendo's strength is also it's greatest weakness. They know what they do well, but they're nervous about going outside that.

Heh, not unlike the anime industry.

No, it really isn't their greatest weakness. They have more respect for the medium than to pretend something with a different coat of paint is a new series. Better to just keep their war horses going (and NONE of them are in danger of losing steam anytime soon) than to just fart stuff out randomly and pretend it's new.

And you're implying there's no middle ground?
You're implying that constant re-releases of their older games is any better (or different) than that?
You're saying "same old shit" is respect for the medium?

I'm not gonna argue that Nintendo is losing money cause that'd be stupid, I'm only arguing against the constant claim that Nintendo is innovating and reaching new ground. Cause they aren't, and you know what? That's ok. They don't need to appeal to me, I understand that I'm not the target audience. I'm saying if they want a broader audience, then I don't see it happening.

To be fair Nintendo are probably the only major company who aren't constantly pushing for better graphics.I mean they released an SD console at a time when everyone was jumping aboard the HD bandwagon.Their handhelds have always had inferior specs to their rivals and their games tend more towards colorful,cartoony graphics rather than hyper realistic

Hmmm. You make a valid point. I amend my views sir.
My only evidence would be the 3DS. But they seem to have not done anything more with 3D other than that.

You mean the Okami that's been called the best Zelda game not made by Nintendo?Don't get me wrong I think Okami is a fantastic game but to say it's a vastly different experience is overexaggerating just a tad.Okami is pretty much a Zelda game with a different coat of paint.

Actually I think that was his point.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Why do people say that Nintendo is the worst offender at milking franchises.
Sure, Mario has more titles than any other franchise, but there is quite some time between 2 Mario games unlike many other franchises that come out yearly.

Spoiler: Milking franchises: Games per generation

Open image in a new tab for full size. I did not make the picture, I don't take credits for it and iirc Forza is inaccurate because it's over 2 generation. Not 100% sure since I don't play, nor do I care about it.

As you can see from the picture, there are quite a few companies that are milking their franchises much more. And that list doesn't even include CoD.

Also, people need to learn what a rehash actually is.
Except of the NEW Super Mario series, Mario is as far from rehashing as it gets.

Spoiler: Mario Party is not a rehash of platformer Mario games, nor are Mario RPG'. They simply use the same character but are completely different games. Just because they protagonist in a game s the same as in another doesn't make it automatically a rehash.

Also, quite a few of you guys need to learn the difference between disliking and hating. If you dislike motion controls, you may or may not dislike Nintendo, but hating them for that is irrational and you should question yourself.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm not talking story, I'm talking set-up. Instead of Mario saving Peach in the same Mushroom Kingdom setting, have the main character be like an Indian princess in a magical Hindoe world or something. It can have the same amount of gameplay focus as Mario or Zelda, but the shift in set-up can turn it into a vastly different experience. Just look at Okami.

You mean the Okami that's been called the best Zelda game not made by Nintendo?Don't get me wrong I think Okami is a fantastic game but to say it's a vastly different experience is overexaggerating just a tad.Okami is pretty much a Zelda game with a different coat of paint.

Yet it's still a different game with different gameplay. It's got different characters, a different story, setting, visual style, and atmosphere.

The reason I gave Okami as an example is because it's basically Zelda with a different coat of paint. But that coat of paint gave us fresh new characters in a fresh new world to explore.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I don't hate them but their games just don't appeal to me anymore. They essentially release so many of the same games over and over. Plus, their past two consoles are both based around gimmicks. I don't want to worry about motion control or an extra screen. I just want to play a good game. Nintendo was my favourite developer in the past (Windwaker is one of my all time favourite games) but they have really fallen out of my favour.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

snip

Other franchises doing it doesn't make it okay (common practice fallacy). Pointing out those cases only works in the argument if one of the parties has shown different judgement on the other cases.

However, you are right that they are likely wrong if they claim that Nintendo is the "worst offender." It would be unfair of them to single Nintendo out (as other companies do it as well).

On your definition of milking, do the re-releases count as milking as well or is that a different practice? I ask this in full seriousness.

On the hatred bit, hatred is just extreme dislike. So it depends how passionate a person is about the thing.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

And you're implying there's no middle ground?
You're implying that constant re-releases of their older games is any better (or different) than that?
You're saying "same old shit" is respect for the medium?

I'm not gonna argue that Nintendo is losing money cause that'd be stupid, I'm only arguing against the constant claim that Nintendo is innovating and reaching new ground. Cause they aren't, and you know what? That's ok. They don't need to appeal to me, I understand that I'm not the target audience. I'm saying if they want a broader audience, then I don't see it happening.

That "same old shit" exists because they are still popular, mostly because they're GOOD. Cuz that's the thing, if Nintendo DIDN'T innovate they would already be dead. But they aren't. They seem to be going against the nonexistent rules and commandments for the gaming industry and are STILL successful.

You keep saying that Nintendo won't get a broader audience. Well...I can't see that happening with Sony or MS either. They don't actually know HOW to expand their audience beyond shallow pandering. Which is another reason people resent Nintendo. Nintendo's efforts were far more successful than MS' Kinect or Sony's Move mostly because Nintendo put more effort behind them. So yeah, Nintendo basically proves all those bullshit ideas of what makes gaming successful wrong. And that just PISSES people off. Good.

 

[MetalDooley]

Hmmm. You make a valid point. I amend my views sir.
My only evidence would be the 3DS. But they seem to have not done anything more with 3D other than that.

And even the 3DS is underpowered compared to the Vita.Fact is Nintendo have been putting gameplay ahead of graphics for years now

Actually I think that was his point.

Read what he said again

I'm not talking story, I'm talking set-up. Instead of Mario saving Peach in the same Mushroom Kingdom setting, have the main character be like an Indian princess in a magical Hindoe world or something. It can have the same amount of gameplay focus as Mario or Zelda, but the shift in set-up can turn it into a vastly different experience. Just look at Okami.

He says that simply by changing the protagonists it can make a game vastly different.I'm arguing the opposite.If a game is functionally similar to another then you can't claim it's "vastly different".Okami is pretty much a zelda game in all but name.It's about as far from "vastly different" as you can get

Well, I don't like Nintendo because Nintendo fans are SO into their company

You mean unlike the Sony fans who sent death threats to anyone who suggested that Killzone 2 wasn't the greatest game ever made or accused people of being Microsoft fanboys even when they gave the game perfect scores?

Fact is every fanbase has it's idiots.To write off an entire companies output simply because of a few morons is pretty silly too

 

[BarelyAudible]

There has always been the Nintendo Stigma; one reason or another to hate on Nintendo, justified or not.

NES - Japanese company. Strict regulation and censorship of games. Inferior tech compared to the PC. How dare it become the face of American gaming.

SNES - Nintendo only makes kiddie games, real men play Mortal Kombat, Madden, or NBA Jam on the Genesis. Or Doom on any PC.

N64 - Cartridges?! Real games have voices and FMV and TWO analogue sticks three years after the fact.

Gamecube - Again with the inferior tech; just look at those tiny disks! The PS2 is so much more powerful. Not to mention, "Look at GTA3! You HAVE to get a PS2! Look at Halo! You HAVE to get a Xbox. Look at Metoid Prime...the Wind Waker...Sunshine...Viewtiful Joe...Eternal Darkness...Resident Evil 4...Melee...I wish there were on PS2!"

 

[WOPR]

Precisly, that's why you have superiority complex, you're even assuming he only plays EA and Nintendo games. And thousands of games is something lots of users of the escapist can brag about, including me. You're not that special.

Look, pal, I agree with what J-e-f-f-e-r-s wrote, and I have to admire how he can keep arguing seriously and avoiding falacies with you guys., I personally lost the patience.
And if you want to know, I play games since I have memory of existence, I played a bit of everything, from Prince and Agent on my old Dos Computer to my Gameboy games and N64 games and to the newer consoles and mobile crappy games.
And of course PC gaming.

I was referring to the people I know here locally, not the people on The Escapist.
To put the people in the above statement into perspective... If you went to their house and wanted to play, let's say Super Smash Brothers Brawl. If you picked Snake or Sonic they would shut off the game and tell you to leave, because those aren't Nintendo characters and Brawl is a Nintendo game. That's how in their own bubble they are.

And of the above the only one I'm really "missing out on" would probably be mobile games. Not that I'm trying to avoid them I just don't have a cell phone *shrugs*. I have played Temple Run though... *shudder* such bad response time...

I hate to repeat myself but the fact that they have the same characters does not mean they are the same game. Are you seriously arguing that all mario and zelda games are exactly the same? If you are I can only assume you haven't played them.

*snip this bit here*

Why you insist every company has to make 'Fighters, Shooters, and Racers' is beyond me. You may like those games but wanting every game to be that genre is kind of selfish.

Oh and the 3DS has an analogue stick albeit a kind of flat one...did you not know that.

You... A lot of what I said went over your head by the looks of it xD.
Either that or I really sucked at my wording last night.

So in order... Mario and Zelda. Same character, same villan, same objective, new coat of paint. As much as I hate them the CoD games added more between games than Zelda/Mario does. And yes I have played them, I still think that personally my favorites were... Hmm... For mario no idea because I didn't much care for it... Probably Mario 2. (The Lost Levels one, not Doki Doki panic.) Zelda is Majora's Mask. I loved the time of day mechanic and the different mask forms.

Why I insist... I wasn't insisting at all, I was just pointing out that due to online play finally being a common thing amongst consoles, it baffles me why nintendo refuses to bring out their games that would thrive in the current day/age and instead insist making their games more and more and MORE simplified, easy, and local. Nothing wrong with local multiplayer, it just shouldn't be your ONLY option these days. (should still be an option though *glares at other console games*).

I am aware the 3DS has an analogue stick. As for what took them 7 or 8 hand held "generations" to go from a clip on to an ACTUAL one is also beyond me.

"I don't have a superiority complex.I'm just more observant,more cultured,better educated and have better taste than most people"

Comedy gold right there my friend

And how do you propose you would act when you're frequently more intelligent than your college professors, have more to offer in conversation than "the newest episode of [insert TMZ show here]" and are the only bloody person in your biology class (aside from the professor) who knows YOU CAN'T GET HERPES FROM A WATER BOTTLE?!
Seriously the people here locally are just... ugh... (Not to mention the sheer mass number of "Free Prayer" and "Accept Jesus as your Savior Here" booths around campus, and the sheeple that can't seem to understand after two years that the white tents are the smoking zones, not 2 feet in front of a "no smoking within 30 feet of this building; Please move to the designated white tents" signs...)

EDIT: To better explain professor one so I just don't sound like I'm being a dick with no reason. My professor last year failed me in web page design. Why? Not because I didn't do the assignments or anything, but because I used HTML code and Java to do things the rest of the class couldn't, and the teacher didn't understand it because it wasn't done 100% in dreamweaver. So she demanded I redo the entire semesters worth of work in 2 days. In addition my programming teacher didn't understand what "cmd" was, she didn't even know that little button in the top of the browser maximized the window. Every time she would drag out each corners of the window until it matched the size of the screen...

 

[Lovely Mixture]

That "same old shit" exists because they are still popular, mostly because they're GOOD.

I'm not arguing if it's good or not. I'm arguing if it's making any progress.

When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on Gamecube, that's fine, you're stepping up the graphics to the next generation.
When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on Wii (and later Wii U), you understand that they're trying step it up and give it the new control scheme.
When you get a re-release of Ocarina of Time on the the 3DS it's start to time thinking about why you're focusing so much on the same game.

Cuz that's the thing, if Nintendo DIDN'T innovate they would already be dead. But they aren't. They seem to be going against the nonexistent rules and commandments for the gaming industry and are STILL successful.

So yeah, Nintendo basically proves all those bullshit ideas of what makes gaming successful wrong. And that just PISSES people off. Good.

Well I fail to see how they've innovated or done different, and I didn't mean to say lack of innovation would kill them.

You keep saying that Nintendo won't get a broader audience. Well...I can't see that happening with Sony or MS either. They don't actually know HOW to expand their audience beyond shallow pandering. Which is another reason people resent Nintendo. Nintendo's efforts were far more successful than MS' Kinect or Sony's Move mostly because Nintendo put more effort behind them.

Why do people keep bringing up the other companies as if the argument is meant to single Nintendo out? This is a thread about Nintendo, if this were a thread about Valve I'd be saying the same thing about them. I'm already critical of Sony for doing something I believe to be WORSE than what Nintendo does. Fuck if Microsoft has anything to bring to the table, the only audience they can maintain now are people who can't think for themselves and people who will have to review their next console.

He says that simply by changing the protagonists it can make a game vastly different.I'm arguing the opposite.If a game is functionally similar to another then you can't claim it's "vastly different".Okami is pretty much a zelda game in all but name.It's about as far from "vastly different" as you can get

Gameplay-wise? Yeah maybe not.
A different experience though? You can definitely argue that.

He's responded to your post above, he's arguing that a different world and characters gives a fresh experience.

 

[BarelyAudible]

I've been wondering how we define "New IP from Nintendo". Xenoblade Chronicle, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Fluidity, Pushmo, Dillon's Rolling Western, Artstyle, Endless Ocean, Freakyforms, Harmoknight, Sakura Samurai don't count.

Because they are not the hardcores? Because there were not the direct brainchild of Miyamoto? They don't count. For some reason.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

So you think Super Mario Bros 2 is the same as Mario Galaxy and Super Paper Mario? and Wind Waker is the same as Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess?

Kind of a bit different than upgrades of COD...:S

Luigi's Mansion 2 has online multiplayer and so does Animal Crossing New Leaf. There are quite a few games for the 3DS that have online multiplayer...

Like I said are you even playing these games or just criticising them without knowing anything about them?

I'm imagine they didn't have more than a clip on one before because a full on analogue stick is a little ungainly for a hand held.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I hate to repeat myself but the fact that they have the same characters does not mean they are the same game. Are you seriously arguing that all mario and zelda games are exactly the same? If you are I can only assume you haven't played them.

Having different characters helps though. When people say "Nintendo just keeps making the same game", what I think they mean is that they keep using the same characteristics. The same Mario, the same Link, going through the same overarching ordeal as they have been for years.

Creating a new character in a new world with a new visual style can add some freshness. And depended on this new character and world, it can open up newer gameplay possibilities.

The gameplay is different enough between iterations unless you are suggesting Bowser's Inside Story is the same as Mario Galaxy :/

It just seems like having a go at DC for using Superman and Batman.

 

[MetalDooley]

Yet it's still a different game with different gameplay.

Different gameplay?Okami follows the exact same gameplay template as pretty much every Zelda game ever made

It's got different characters, a different story, setting, visual style, and atmosphere.

And if you stuck Wolf Link from Twilight Princess into the game and kept everything else it would be indistinguishable from a Zelda title.

The reason I gave Okami as an example is because it's basically Zelda with a different coat of paint.

And that's my point.You can't say X is basically Y with a different coat of paint and then claim X is vastly different than Y

Gameplay-wise? Yeah maybe not.
A different experience though? You can definitely argue that.

When the gameplay is so similar then I would argue that's it's not a different experience at all.You could swap out Amaterasu for Wolf Link from Twilight Princess and keep everything else and it would be a zelda game

Look I'm not saying okami is bad.Far from it.I'm simply suggesting that when something plays so similarly it's hard to call it vastly different

 

[Lovely Mixture]

When the gameplay is so similar then I would argue that's it's not a different experience at all.You could swap out Amaterasu for Wolf Link from Twilight Princess and keep everything else and it would be a zelda game

Look I'm not saying okami is bad.Far from it.I'm simply suggesting that when something plays so similarly it's hard to call it vastly different

Look at it this way.

If Ookami had starred a humanoid protagonist in a fantasy land with elements similar to Zelda and no reference to Japanese mythology, then I doubt anyone would have cared about it. It would have been written off as a Wind Waker clone.


Characters and World - Distinctly Different
Gameplay - Not as different.

If you need an example of something UNEXCITING, look at all the shooters that use two settings (future with/without aliens, modern warfare) and the same gameplay. People still eat them up, they make money, but it's still repetition.