What's Wrong With Communism?

[Crescent Sun]

It's favorite color.

Red... everyone knows red is evil. Look at the Sith.

best. case. against. communism. ever.

Thank you! Thank you! No applause!

P.S. Will accept applause...

China's red star, USSR the Red Bear... it all makes sense *Applauds* Now we know the tell of all evil countries. We can prevent WW3

 

[cocoadog]

okay i literally just posted this in another forum but... that's what you get you get my axe of capitalism right in your face.

 

[lostclause]

It's favorite color.

Red... everyone knows red is evil. Look at the Sith.

best. case. against. communism. ever.

Thank you! Thank you! No applause!

P.S. Will accept applause...

China's red star, USSR the Red Bear... it all makes sense *Applauds* Now we know the tell of all evil countries. We can prevent WW3

The Red, white and blue? But I suppose they are one of the evil countries.

 

[angryscotsman93]

Too many Americans are afraid of it.
AND, others believe that Obama will make America a communistic society.
But, i see no problem in this. Communism is a great idea if a country already has a stable economy, and hey, free healthcare would be great. It's a great idea it's just been used wrong.

So really, what's wrong with Communism?

I don't think that the main problem is truly with Communism (though the amount of capitalist drilling into our skulls at a young age don't help much), but that the stigma lies more with the fact that we've witnessed entire countries fall apart after living under Communist governments that ended up falling apart, either because we crushed'em beneath the ever-greedy boots of Capitalism, or because their economies fell apart at some point. Anywho, the thing is this: We've seen Castro. We've seen Stalin. We've seen Mao. All of these people started out aiming for the Communist Ideal, as I'll call it: no discrimination, everybody gets the same because all are equal, etc. Feel free to correct me if I've got some mistakes, here. I'm always willing to learn. Anyways, they AIMED for these ideals- but it fell apart in the end, and we ended up staring at what we saw as a brutal, backwards dictatorship. So, this means that when people say, "Communism," we think, "Oh shit, KGB!" It's just how we're programmed.

However, you're right. Communism in of itself is a good idea, it's just that a wohle system cannot be implemented, since SOMEONE needs to take charge, and that can't be done if we're all truly equal. However, in terms of limited usage, it'd be perfect- but good luck getting a Republican to shut the fuck up and listen to your pitch...

That was meant in regards to the "Screwball" Repubs, like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, the retarded monkey-man.

 

[Crescent Sun]

The Red, white and blue? But I suppose they are one of the evil countries.

Exactly

 

[wizzerd229]

the problem with communism is the fact humans will always corupt it

 

[internetzealot1]

Because its not natural. Life is an every-man-for-himself-game, and hell if I'm gonna let some druggie leech off of my work. We only live once, so we have to make the most of it for ourselves

 

[Instant K4rma]

Communism looks great on paper, but no one has ever been able to pull it off. And its impossible for Obama to make a communistic community. True communism has no leaders.

 

[Leesee]

Theres nothing wrong with the idea its the people that put it into action that are the problem

 

[Muffinthraka]

It doesn't work. For a society to work everyone must have a job and some jobs are more difficult or demanding than others. For communism to work those with the more demanding jobs must be willing to work for the same as those with easy jobs.

 

[Ninonybox_v1legacy]

communism is a good idea IN THEORY, wealth and power distributed to all sounds great....but somehow it always ends up doing opposite. oh well

 

[red the fister]

If you had read the Communist manifesto instead of just listening to anti-commie propaganda you would know you could do all those things.

But how? Everything has to be shared equally... how can anyone be an individual in that situation if all is equal? That is what confuses me on the subject.

*snipped for relevance to my point*

Your individuality remains intact, and you can do as you wish, so long as everyone is equal (not the same, just equal).

dude, what is heavier a ton of Feathers or a ton of Depleted Uranium Anti-tank rounds?

a ton of feathers in reality has the same weight as the ton of Depleted Uranium Anti-tank rounds.

thusly, as ton is = to a ton, is the "same" as Same = Equal

unless you mean, A = b where the value of A is 5 and the value of b is -(-5)

ya see kids, Algebra even has it's use here in the forum.

Thank you for proving my point with such an excellent example.

As you said, a ton of feathers and a ton of depleted uranium armour piercing high explosive shells both weigh a ton.

And again, as you say, because there's a ton of each, they are equal.

But they're not the same.

They are equal.

Because there's a ton of each.

But they're not the same.

And thus concludes my argument, thanks to your excellent example of how equality does not necessitate the absence of individuality.

Thank you.

well played.

i should have gone with feathers in free fall vs feathers in high gravity.... /grumble

or better yet, the length that Brewmasters go through to ensure that this production run of *high quality beer* has all the same characteristics as the first vat of the same brand/stile/flavor of *high quality beer*. the brew is affected by ambient conditions that the manufactures have little to no control over.

the same is true for each generation of humans.

even if we all are indoctrinated to the same propaganda we would come out viewing it (and out place relative to it) differently. maybe your parents gave you praise when you excelled in your education (and maybe they didn't), maybe you are a personable chap who befriends others without even a hint of effort (or maybe you are an asocial prick who stumbles into friendships that just shouldn't be). maybe you are a talented, driven individual on a quest for fame and fortune (maybe you're content to be an utter failure at everything you do and simply wish to exist, supported on the backs of those who strive for perfection).

truly, to different individuals and in my opinion they are Not Equal. simply Existing does not grant Equality - the choices We make with Our lives determine our Worth and Value. and yes, as Western/Capitalist Society sees it I am of Little Value but i'm not a failure for I Strive to Excel.

we are all born equal and the same, Bloody, Wet, Filthy and Helpless beasts. then we grow into People and that's when the Equality Ends.

 

[red the fister]

It'a not really the actual process of communism that is bad, but the people that try and implement it. For it to really work people have to truly believe we are all truly equal and we all should contribute for one another. Now that would be nice, but it will never happen.

Then what we need to do is to find out what's wrong with the process and correct the problem, and our airship can take to the sky.

ok, i did some thinking along these lines earlier today and here's what i came up with.

the problem is that for the last hundred centuries or so the ones that strove to be the absolute best kinds won the Mating Game and passed on the genes that made them that way.

so i think a Eugenics Program (Not like what the Nazis were after, or the fictional one that produced KAAAHHHNNNN!!!!!!) to um, un-breed our drive to excel and breed-in altruism, complete with a Slavish Loyalty to everyone but ourselves.

and taking the Nature vs. Nurture argument into account some manner of "Cyber-Brain-Implant" to ruthlessly quell any desire gain more from our labors than the next man gain from our labors.

i think that should do the trick. anyone agree?

 

[gorfias]

1) Communists and Leftists in general tend to round up large segments of their populations and either fail them (France's recent heat wave holocaust), or outright murder them (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot).
2) It is deadening to the soul: see the film, "The Lives of Others" for a quick intro to this topic.
3) Ultimately, it fails. The motto, "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work" becomes an operating guide line. The U.S.S.R. collapsed because even the elite stopped getting goods and services.

I'd rather continue to live in an exceptional nation, thanks.

 

[red the fister]

Firstly, my friend, t'was a mistake to create this thread. Entirely because everyone expects me to get into it, then I do get into it, then we argue for thirty freaking pages and everyone just gets sick of it. So a bit inconvenient on my end, but whatever.

Still, you've got a question, and it shall be answered.

"What's wrong with comminism?" Is a subjective question, and peoples' answers to it will be different depending on how much money is in their wallet.

I'm not going to get into specifics because I don't want to start a flame war and it's 5:33AM and I'm tired. But in general the wealthier people in the world (America) are afraid of all their "hard work" being taken from them and given to feed starving children in Africa.

Basic information on communism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

More in-depth information from the Young Communist League of Canada:
http://ycl-ljc.ca/en/who_we_are/faq.php

The biggest argument against communism is that it doesn't work because people are selfish. Why don't we change that, then? People can change.

My philosophy on this entire topic is "When there's a will, there's a way."

you bring a smile to my face Akai. you know... some people you just can't trust them to be consistent and loyal. You my friend are like clockwork, a well oiled, predictable and repetitive clockwork. you give fanatically passionate a good rep. I could argue some of your points but like you just said, fuck it. nobody is going to change their beliefs ,its early and not worth talking over.

whats really funny is that you've talked this over with us caps so much that you can cut the shit and go strait to the point of contention. no mucking about in the principles and things. lol, just shows how much we talk about it here.

What can I say? I want a better world, and you can't have one in capitalism.

People don;t change even generation to generation it is rare to see real change in humanitys 50,000 year history there have been but a few major changes and human nature is to be greedy and do as little work as possible because if you can conserve energy and get what you need nature tells us that we have succeeded but in communism you can not have the basic instinct but all humans have it and forever will have it.

Firstly, I do not believe it is human nature or instinct to be selfish, because I know several people who are not selfish at all, either by nature or by actions.

And it is not opinion that people can change, it is a fact. And there have been mass changes in the past.

/sigh

i heartily disagree.

while i do indeed know several people that are not selfish; a) they never beggar themselves through their charitable donations, and b) i know so many more people that are selfish - not to a fault mind you - most "selfish" people i know work hard for their money (and the goods and services that it buys them) and the only people they may have directly "harmed" are the people that didn't get their jobs.

and about those "mass changes" please give some citations. but before you do, think about it... were those changes of which you speak followed shortly thereafter be an upswing in living conditions? i put the odds at about 50,000:1 in favor of improved living condition.

(now i bet he's gonna say something about all the pollution from the Industrial Revolution)

 

[Whispering Death]

There are only two ways to motivate humans

1) reward
2) fear and punnishment

Communism by its definition removes reward since its founding principle is that everyone should have the exact same stuff equally.

So that means the only way to get anyone to do anything is to make them afraid and to use terror and punnishment to motivate them. See: Stalinist USSR. Then, if you decide to be nice and not use terror, nothing at all gets done. See: 1980s USSR.

 

[Warwolt]

1) Communists and Leftists in general tend to round up large segments of their populations and either fail them (France's recent heat wave holocaust), or outright murder them (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot).
2) It is deadening to the soul: see the film, "The Lives of Others" for a quick intro to this topic.
3) Ultimately, it fails. The motto, "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work" becomes an operating guide line. The U.S.S.R. collapsed because even the elite stopped getting goods and services.

I'd rather continue to live in an exceptional nation, thanks.

Oh WAY to put everyone in the same prejudice. And anyway, Hitler was slightly right. NOT leftist. Mostly he was just well, nazi-facism.

 

[Palin2012]

How about...

We all vote Sarah Palin, 2012

She will set us right

God Bless America

 

[Brett Alex]

My mistake. By controlled, I meant territory he was able to defend against invasion, not territory he ruled with an iron fist.

Still, as far as I'm aware, in Anarchy, you aren't supposed to have any protectors, any government, etc.
Though I can understand the need, seeing as how it was only one area that was that way.

Well you could put it down to either Anarcho-Communism being different from Anarchy, or the fact the people who were trying to invade weren't Anarchists, and therefore had no qualms about killing those who were.

The Anarchist Black Army was a volunteer style grouping of Anarchists, under Mahkno because he was the most capable commander. Although they operated in somewhat regular organization, their strength lay in guerilla style tactics.

It was less of a "You, the people need to form an army to protect our lands from invasion!" and more of a "Us, the people should really do something to stop people stepping all over our ideologies and killing our brothers."

 

[lostclause]

snip

A side note, but does anyone see the irony in the anarchists being one of the most organised armies? Both here and in the spainish civil war.