When a friend tells you he "does not agree" with the concept of evolution

[Grospoliner]

I don't remain friends with people who can't even master 5th grade science.

 

[lacktheknack]

You leave it alone and realize that saying "EVOLUTION IS THE ONLY OPTION FOR PEOPLE WITH INTELLIGENCE" is unbearably presumptuous. We don't have a time machine, we cannot verify either theory as of right now. For all you know, God's a sick jokester who created you mere seconds ago, and all your memories are false.

 

[lacktheknack]

Why is it that people hate on religion so much when by and large Religious people are content to sit quietly and behave?

Leave them alone. Please. Listen to the Beatles on this one and just Let it Be.

This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

First off, no. This "religion is bad and should disappear" craze is in fact very recent.
Secondly, in quite a lot of areas, even in the USA, religious people are not sitting by quietly and behaving-they're refusing a student's constitutional rights [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm89ef4v6i0&feature=feedu] and then shunning him; they're killing people for the crime of apostasy (that is, leaving the religion) in the third world, and here they're forcing their dogma upon schools in the form of intelligent design.
Thirdly, we aren't just "hating on" religion. We're offering smart, well-formulated, logical arguments that completely dissect the entire religious groundwork of most fundamental religions. That we show contempt for people not getting it after the 50th time does not mean that we are "hating".
Fourthly, many religious people sit quietly and behave because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. The internet is where religions come to die [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqw4krMOug] for various reasons... Two of the big ones is that it is incredibly hard to apply social coercion in an anonymous media, and that without that social coercion, there's nothing protecting you from seeing the reality and the counter-arguments. We've logically proven evangelical christianity false. We've proven the omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent god of the bible false. We've proven the bible fallible. All without even sinking into inductive reasoning-all simply by logic. Religion gets SLAUGHTERED in the open forum without social (and legal) pressures to uphold it. That the religious try so hard to lie their way out of issues like evolution should be very telling of exactly what I'm talking about.

Um... what?

I've never seen "proof" that my beliefs are false that didn't have logical workarounds. Just as atheists haven't. And believe it or not, having a thousand dissenters yelling at you is not "slaughter on the open forum" the way you want it to mean - it simply means you bullied someone out of the conversation. I've NEVER seen a logical proof that Christianity is false that wasn't riddled with hanging threads, assumptions, and a couple genuine WTF moments.

I imagine you're going to "set me straight" now with your own breed of "BECAUSE IT IS" logic, and only reinforce my notion that atheists online are generally insufferable and annoying. (I'm not sure why I bothered with this thread.)

 

[lacktheknack]

You leave it alone and realize that saying "EVOLUTION IS THE ONLY OPTION FOR PEOPLE WITH INTELLIGENCE" is unbearably presumptuous. We don't have a time machine, we cannot verify either theory as of right now. For all you know, God's a sick jokester who created you mere seconds ago, and all your memories are false.

*headdesk*

Get your head out of philosophy's ass, will ya? We can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that evolution happened. Claiming that it didn't happen IS stupid. Yes, any number of things could be true. We could've been created by the god of the bible 6000 years ago. We could've been created 10 seconds ago, with all memories, etc. being plants. We could be the result of a very advanced alien program to simulate a universe. We could be stuck in a dream world to escape reality. But why would you ever believe that? Why bother even entertaining the notion? It's beyond our understanding and beyond reality's control. It's effectively pointless, and conjecture about it has to stop because it is completely unfalsifiable and therefore cannot be proven either way.

I agree that evolution happens, but is it why we're here? I don't see the issue with asking.

EDIT: Also, creationism is perfectly falsifiable. I thought you said that your wonderful internet has proven beyond all doubt that there is no God...?

 

[lacktheknack]

Um... what?

I've never seen "proof" that my beliefs are false that didn't have logical workarounds. Just as atheists haven't. And believe it or not, having a thousand dissenters yelling at you is not "slaughter on the open forum" the way you want it to mean - it simply means you bullied someone out of the conversation. I've NEVER seen a logical proof that Christianity is false that wasn't riddled with hanging threads, assumptions, and a couple genuine WTF moments.

K, what exactly do you believe?

I've been a traditional Christian for a long time, I'm looking deep into the Universalist movement (ie. There is no hell beyond Earth itself). Basically, I'm on the internet and doing anything except dying.

EDIT: I derp'd. I meant pseudo-universalism. Clarification: I still believe the Christianity is correct, but references to hell can be read as "temporary suffering". Basically, I'm not entirely sure that Hell exists, or that anyone is punished post-death.

 

[lacktheknack]

I've been a traditional Christian for a long time, I'm looking deep into the Universalist movement (ie. There is no hell beyond Earth itself). Basically, I'm on the internet and doing anything except dying.

This tells me very little. Saying "I'm a christian" says only little more about your belief than stating "I'm a monotheist". There are over 30,000 types of christianity... But can I assume that the god you believe in is the stereotypical omnipresent, omnipotent, benevolent god of the new testament?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt9x3CnxApo&feature=feedu
That video pretty much completely destroys that god logically (starts around 1:30).

I'm leaving for work, but there's a couple whacked-out theories floating around that may explain what I heard. (The impossible task: Can God be immortal at will?)

 

[sageoftruth]

Well shoot! I guess I should have seen this coming. I guess I didn't really give evolution enough credit. I was just trying to interpret what the host's friend was trying to say.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

One of my friends doesn't believe in evolution, but that's mostly because he doesn't really understand it. Once, one of my other friends and I were trying to convince him it was true, and he eventually asked us, "But if we came from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" My friend and I just kind of started at each other in shock. Later we realized he was only half serious, though.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

Evolution is the best explanation we have right now. It's quite possible that we didn't evolve but it's unlikely considering the evidence that we have. We also know to a certain extent that evolution does exist. It seems simply ignorant to disbelieve the theory only because there is no 100% absolute proof of it. I also see no reason why "we are not meant to know certain things", I see this phrase thrown around a lot but I see no justification for it outside of unclear religious ramblings.

 

[Smertnik]

I know what you mean. I discovered a few months ago that a guy I study Physics with doesn't acknowledge the evolution, either. And he's very smart, too, and doesn't really seem like a religious guy. Really baffled me.

But as long as people don't try to preach around I'm fine with it. Although I think it would be very difficult for me to accept if it were one of my close friends instead.

 

[Xanadu84]

We all believe something stupiud. Obviously, we don't know what it is, but we all believe something that a, "Smart" Person wouldn't believe. Point out that the facts disagree with him, and try to move on.

 

[DracoSuave]

I agree that evolution happens, but is it why we're here? I don't see the issue with asking.

There IS nothing incorrect about this statement, and science is ABOUT asking the questions. But it doesn't STOP there.

So, you take your observation, and your hypothesis, and you develop a prediction that would be true if your hypothesis is correct, and you perform an experiment to see the results.

And then repeat.

The difference between science and philosophy? They both expect you to ask questions. It's -demanded- in both disciplines.

The difference is that science then says 'Now go do something about it.'

EDIT: Also, creationism is perfectly falsifiable. I thought you said that your wonderful internet has proven beyond all doubt that there is no God...?

Science has not proven or disproven the existence of God. Science has yet to come up with an experiment to test the existence of god. God is simply not in the equation.

Evolution doesn't disprove or prove or suggest or discourage the existance of God. All it does is say how life exists. if certain subsets of people have an idea of God that is at odds with that, that is no more science's problem than the belief that it is possible that water can turn into wine when drank in a church. Science seeks to determine reality, and religious beliefs that are in contrast with reality are simply that... they hold beliefs that are untrue.

 

[Rock 'n' Soul]

Who gives a shit what he believes? In my opinion, it's not even worth arguing about. That's his opinion, and you have yours. Let it be.