habsJD said:
science has completely shut the door on the possibility of anything unverifiable. Since it's unverifiable it would be pointless to actually look into it, so there's no fault there. Science shouldn't be concerning itself with anything that can't be studied, but completely declaring that it is impossible for anything to exist outside of what we can see is a little extreme, possibly a little arrogant.
This is not true. Science just cannot work with something like that and just ignores it. It doesn't declare it impossible, it's just completely useless. To use an age-old argument; you can't also disprove that an invisible pink teapot is orbiting Saturn. Science simply cannot do anything with that. How could it? For that it needs faith, and faith goes completely against the scientific method.
I do know what the actual meaning of the word "theory" means, I wasn't referring to the lack of 100% conclusive evidence proving everything along from point A to point B. And yes evolution does explain a lot, it is a good theory in the truest sense of the term. There are just some issues that need to be cleaned up.
In the "how" part, of course, the modern theory of evolution isn't really all that old. Hell, even the fact of evolution; new side-branches and 'missing links' keeps getting discovered. We've only got a rough picture afterall, but clear enough to show that life evolves. Also, the 'driving force' you're talking about is no trivial matter, it's the crux of explaining how evolution works. You just say "it's magic."
I'm not throwing the "how" out when I have faith. I'm fascinated by new discoveries and progress. I have no desire to slow down progress. I just look at the same findings you do and see a different...driving force I suppose. I look at the diversity and wonder how we could have gotten to where we are purely by chance. How so many beneficial mutations were needed to get us and all the other species on the planet to where we are today. I choose to believe that this happened through design.
Again:
it is. not. chance. This is cannot be stressed enough. Natural selection is not chance. Bio-chemistry is not chance. You're also looking at this from the completely wrong angle, as if life was
supposed to end up like it is right now. The absolute opposite is true.
Honestly, I've lost count on how many times I had this argument. Usually I just point towards this database [http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html#CB] that's full of claims made over and over and over again, from basic scientific method to your argument that blood clotting is irreducibly complex. Fun fact: it isn't. [http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB200_2.html] I could dig up more info if you'd like, I've done a year of Bio-Informatics, and a friend of mine who's still in it knows plenty about the coagulation cascade. Hell, he just told me it's one of the coolest examples of step-by-step evolution. I wonder what he'll come up with.
And that database only contains short summaries, you could find wealths of information on just one of those little summaries all boiling down to one thing; you ain't well-informed at all. No biggy though, not many people are. Sadly lots of them don't seem to realise that.
And once again, you
are slowing down progress if you just want to say "Well, magic did it." Because that's not getting anyone anywhere.
Last edit: seems that he linked me the same article I already linked you. It's a good one, that's for sure.
Of course it's important to inform yourself, and I have informed myself. Admittedly this is the first time I've looked into any of this in several years, so there's likely new things I'm not entirely aware of, but I do know what evolution is. I am aware of the theory. I choose to believe that evolution was guided. I choose to have faith in something that I cannot see or prove.
Apparently you haven't done that enough so, or have done so poorly, seeing the lack of knowledge on certain topics and obvious misconceptions about others.
I don't see a problem with contrasting eternal happiness with real life.
Real life isn't happening at that moment, you're out of that. In that situation, your "you" transfers to a different plane of existence where there is only happiness. Without unhappiness, happiness is meaningless. Without the dark there is no light either.
USSR said:
It
is fact. The theory of evolution is not fact, that life evolved
is. That's a very
very important distinction and I wouldn't be surprised if it would be the most widespread misconception about evolution and evolutionary theory throughout opponents and proponents.