"When China Rules the World"

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Lonan

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This is an interview with a guy who's written a book called "When China Rules the World." I thought it would be a good topic for discussion.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/13/macleans-interview-martin-jacques/

I welcome China's rise to power, they seem to be VERY interested in getting CO2 emissions down. It will definitely affect them since it has a population of 1.3 billion, all of whom need water. Much of their water is already polluted, so less water because of CO2 is the last thing they need.
 

Arsen

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The fact that you used Japanese anime to make your point makes me think you have no precise clue as to what you are talking about.
 

quiet_samurai

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China will never rule the world, just like America doesn't rule the world now. And China may be an economic super power and my one day be THE economic super power, but they are not a political or military super power as far as the rest of the world goes, and the only natural resource they really have is people.

And China wouldn't fuck with America, without us and our capatilistic nature they wouldn't be where they are today. We're their #1 customer.
 

smithy1234

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quiet_samurai said:
China will never rule the world, just like America doesn't rule the world now. And China may be an economic super power and my one day be THE economic super power, but they are not a political or military super power as far as the rest of the world goes, and the only natural resource they really have is people.

And China wouldn't fuck with America, without us and our capatilistic nature they wouldn't be where they are today. We're their #1 customer.
True, the relationship between America and China is symbiotic. America is one of China's biggest buyers and China is one of America's biggest buyers. The thought of either one attacking each other is laughable.
 

Pandalisk

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Ah China, they are advancing so quickly, i remember fond times in that country.
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/china_celebrates_its_status_as

But seriously, rule the world? No one under one government can govern the world, only the illimanati, but the catholic church has got them down for now so its all good,

America and China are superpowers, methinks a unified Europe will be pushed to come into effect more quicker in order to compete.
 

Space Spoons

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The idea that any single country could ever "rule the world" is pretty ridiculous. Everyone knows the world is run by three or four megaconglomerates.
 

Lyri

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Arsen said:
The fact that you used Japanese anime to make your point makes me thing you have no precise clue what you are talking about.
I'm sharing this guy's sentiment here, honestly.

China will never rule the world, they will be an economic center however.
 

MasterSqueak

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manaman said:
I kept trying to phrase this in some way that would not be insulting, but hey can't do everything.

I wonder if you 14. If you are not then you are doing a damn good job of acting like an arrogant kid that thinks he has the world figured out.

There is a reason only kids think kids should have all benefits adults have. Problem is they don't want the responsibilities that go with them. Personally you can believe whatever you want to, but that does not stop me from calling the ideas flaky and in need of more research and a more mature world view.
Age does not equal maturity or wisdom.

Also, even if China tried to take over the world, giant robots would throw nukes and pro-democratic speeches at them.

America knows where to spend those taxes.
 

Halfbreed13

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As soon as the economy dips the slightest in China, then BAM Viva la revelucion! People only put up with shit like that when they get rich off of it.
 

historybuff

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Feb 15, 2009
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Have you ever been to China? I have friends who taught English in China.

It will never happen.
 

ScarlettRage

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nostradamus pedicted that the 3rd anti-christ would be from china

point is, it could happen

(p.s. nostradamus also said that russica and america would make an allience just to let you guys know. i do belive in it, cause im awesome like that...)
 

Saskwach

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China is a very inward looking country. After millenia of hanging onto their turf, romanticising their turf, losing their turf, getting it back, and so on, they truly believe that the only part of the world they need is what is historically (as they see it) China.
The only interest China has in the outside world is resources. They have a very good strategy for getting them: they move into a country, help prop it up a bit and casually buy all the resources they want. For example, it mgiht build a railroad in an African country, among other things, then buy all its mines in one particular resource. China now owns practically all the gold mines in Zambia, for example (IIRC). (When Zambia runs out of gold - that's when China will no longer be interested in helping out.) Chinese sometimes refer to Australia as "Southern China", because of its huge iron ore trade with us. China is essentially a great big mercantilist power.
So China, IMO, isn't interested in ruling the world. Its interests are simply to be the hegemon of the world - the biggest, strongest and safest.
 

Timotei

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Apr 21, 2009
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Ruling a world isn't as easy at it sounds.

If you look back at the many empires that preceeded the nations of today, you'd notice that thier downfall came around the time when they had spread their rule across large portions of the world.

And to use your own point against you, if indeed China was to do what Britannia did in Code Geass then they would be faced with widespread rebellion. History has shown us that one superpower cannot exist as long as different ideals and cultures are practiced.
 

Halfbreed13

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Suiseiseki IRL said:
Ruling a world isn't as easy at it sounds.

If you look back at the many empires that preceeded the nations of today, you'd notice that thier downfall came around the time when they had spread their rule across large portions of the world.

And to use your own point against you, if indeed China was to do what Britannia did in Code Geass then they would be faced with widespread rebellion. History has shown us that one superpower cannot exist as long as different ideals and cultures are practiced.
I think the OP was either kidding, or stupid enough to believe the whole "THE CHINESE R COMING" bullshit >.<

Not actually thinking about history or simple stuff like that.
 

Timotei

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Apr 21, 2009
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Halfbreed13 said:
Suiseiseki IRL said:
Ruling a world isn't as easy at it sounds.

If you look back at the many empires that preceeded the nations of today, you'd notice that thier downfall came around the time when they had spread their rule across large portions of the world.

And to use your own point against you, if indeed China was to do what Britannia did in Code Geass then they would be faced with widespread rebellion. History has shown us that one superpower cannot exist as long as different ideals and cultures are practiced.
I think the OP was either kidding, or stupid enough to believe the whole "THE CHINESE R COMING" bullshit >.<

Not actually thinking about history or simple stuff like that.
I had that same nagging thought in the back of my head, yet I aimed for it to be serious.
 

Altorin

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emwhite123 said:
nostradamus pedicted that the 3rd anti-christ would be from china

point is, it could happen

(p.s. nostradamus also said that russica and america would make an allience just to let you guys know. i do belive in it, cause im awesome like that...)
Nostradamus said a lot of stupid things, that when viewed in hindsight with the correct mental conditioning appear to be predictions of events that have occurred in our past.
 

ScarlettRage

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Altorin said:
emwhite123 said:
nostradamus pedicted that the 3rd anti-christ would be from china

point is, it could happen

(p.s. nostradamus also said that russica and america would make an allience just to let you guys know. i do belive in it, cause im awesome like that...)
Nostradamus said a lot of stupid things, that when viewed in hindsight with the correct mental conditioning appear to be predictions of events that have occurred in our past.
but i wannt belive *goes and pouts in corner*
 

embeekitty

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Jul 28, 2009
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I disagree that China is hugely concerned with CO2 emissions, or really concerned at all. At the last G8 meeting, China said that while they were unhappy with emissions existing in the first place, it was pretty much the developed world's problem to solve. They also said that they were planning a marked increase (I think the last time I checked it was 10% a year, but I could be wrong) in emissions because of their status as a developing industrial nation. They also just built a ton of really dirty coal burning power plants because of how cheap and available coal is in China. While I don't completely disagree with their reasoning (they haven't been in the business of major emissions for very long), they're going to overtake the United States in carbon emissions pretty quickly.

I'm pretty sure that the OP was at least mostly joking, but I felt like sharing that completely boring factoid from class with the rest of the internet. All nitpicking about emissions and possible jokes aside though, that article was actually really interesting. I may have to go check out the book it's pushing.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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For humanity to survive one global culture must eventually grow to control everything.

One of the biggest problems I see with China is their racism.

I do not think that economics will prevent another world war. People have oftentimes felt this way, going back as far as Rome. Not to mention the fact that there are only so many resources on the planet and that if we want to survive as a species someone has to basically get control of them all to use them efficiently to get OFF the planet so we can obtain resources from elsewhere and achieve more living space.

If things remain at the current state they are now, we're going to deplete the planet with our exploding population, and wind up killing each other over the scraps anyway.

No lasting peace can be achieved with differant cultures and nations.... One world goverment is nessicary, and really I think only American principles of freedom and tolerance can work on that level. Nobody (including our system) will EVER create a untopia, I just think it would be better than any other option to exist.

China is currently building up their military as well as their economy which is one of the reasons why I personally see them as a threat. Right now they are just an economic power, but that will not last. People should become increasingly worried about how China is sealing itself to outside ideas, while building it's military, and rattling it's sabers.

If nuclear ICBMS become obselete due to some new technology... well... let's just say that if China isn't planning something they at least plan to be ready to conquer the world or make a huge bid for it during any evelope that exists.

A few truely frightening theories (which admittedly have their problems) involve The Chinese Space Program getting off the ground, the Chinese arming their shuttles in defiance of treaties and pretty much going on a global satellite duck hunt to knock out all the communications and military satellites other nations use.

Pretty much the US is the only nation that could do something like this right now, but we won't because we're nice guys. The Russians had the potential but were always balanced by us. Given our current laid back attitudes due to the space race being "over" and seeing the only real point in it all being to place and maintain satellites, and do research, we could be caught with our pants down if China just decides to go out and do it without any preemptive posturing. We certainly aren't responding to the Chinese Space program anything like the Russian one.

At any rate, let's say China does this. Sure, we've still got a bunch of perfectly deadly warheads out there on Submarines that we can use, but ooops our dependance on satellite technology means all of our communications are down and only China has it for the moment. Our automated missle systems can't fire, because they are now blind.

China lets loose with their payload while the western world is going "WTF" to take out some strategic targets, and then usese the military they are building now to swamp the rest of the world conventionally. Unlike other nations they DO have the abillity to put that many boots on the ground.

Basically, when we eventually recover and establish a new chain of command (chances are places like Washington and London are now radioactive craters, quite possibly literally hit by Chinese warheads fired from orbit) we're not only hugely outnumebred with tenative communications, but facing things like those lovely "Yuan Class" submarines that were able to "Tag" the Kitty Hawke (American Carrier) which are going to be out there playing with our submarines.

Okay, this is one of many potential "Red Dragon Rising" scenarios, you'll find plenty of other equally plausaible ones (with equal numbers of flaws) out there, but the fact remains that in ignoring China because the problem is too big, is ridiculous. It's also equally ridiculous to assume it could never happen. Especially given the way China is sealing itself off informationally and some of the disturbing rhetoric that we DO hear leaking through from their end.

See, the whole logic of someone needing someone else to buy their goods is entirely dependant on the existance of two parties, and the fact that one of them can't just come in and take everything the other one has. It depends on a balance of power.

Rome had this kind of an issue, they felt they were too important due to all of their trade, manufacturing, and doing things like maintaining roads, for anyone to ever do anything to them. The decline took a long time, but even in the end you had cities falling while the Romans couldn't believe it because they were (in their own minds) too badly needed by those doing the conquering.

This is where the statement "Barbarians At The Gates" comes from. The analogy being to Romans assuming the conquering horde outside is just there to talk or trade and refusing to do anything even as the threat manifests quite obviously. From the Barbarian's perspective, why bother to trade with the Romans when you can just walk into the city, take everything you want, and lead all their craftsmen away in chains? :)

Ironically European civilization rose from the ashes of Rome just that way (though that is a great simplification).

The point is that it's foolish to think that things have changed that much.
 

manaman

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MasterSqueak said:
manaman said:
I kept trying to phrase this in some way that would not be insulting, but hey can't do everything.

I wonder if you 14. If you are not then you are doing a damn good job of acting like an arrogant kid that thinks he has the world figured out.

There is a reason only kids think kids should have all benefits adults have. Problem is they don't want the responsibilities that go with them. Personally you can believe whatever you want to, but that does not stop me from calling the ideas flaky and in need of more research and a more mature world view.
Age does not equal maturity or wisdom.

Also, even if China tried to take over the world, giant robots would throw nukes and pro-democratic speeches at them.

America knows where to spend those taxes.
You are right, age does not equal maturity or wisdom. It sure does help a person a lot along the way. With age comes experience and the ability to learn helps a person gain wisdom. The ability to accept responsibilities, and live your life in a reasonable manner with respect for your fellow humans is a good way to define maturity in my book. Something it takes most people half a lifetime to learn if they ever do.

Also: Shhh! The giant robot project is supposed to be a secret, you never know if someone from one of those other countries might be listening in.