When does someone deserve death?
- Thread starter Torrasque
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nope, you didn't, but making snarky religious stabs gets you no where and you had to have known making that statement wouldn't bring anything good of it.enzilewulf said:
and did i say they were a paradise? no, but compared to some places out there, especially some fucked up projects, prison is glorious. (I wasn't going to pull the "OH HOW WOULD YOU KNOW?", as that doesn't seem relevant all, but mmk.) My uncle worked for security at the prison in the county over, and worked his way up to swat sniper, and yeah after being their only a couple times briefly, no shit i wouldn't want to be there at all, especially if i was wrongly accused, but like i said, there are places in this world fucking 2-3x worse than the average prison can be, so for alot of people that doesn't make a damn difference being out here or in there.
i never said anything about troy davis? if it didn't add up then i don't blame you for being upset over it, the only thing i mentioned was when it is 100% without a doubt that that person had done it, then it should be considered for death penalty. and lets see..your dead? they can't do anything then, kapoot, nothing, not a burden on this world anymore and
and that seems so awesome? where...what..where did i mention anything being awesome? jeesh and you thought i was straw manning there...
While you may be correct about the costs, they are another issue altogether. The US has the most ludicrous Law costs in the world, and most of the Jail system has been outsourced to private companies, again at a premium cost.TriGGeR_HaPPy said:
The question is about our moral choices and reactions. Those were given. However, if we start accounting every imperfection in this world, we'll get nowhere. We should strive to make a better system and to educate everyone so incidents like this are rarer and rarer. But I think it is too naïve to dodge the question and the morality behind it. I think that, under certain circumstances, anyone will do anything.
Also, in a perfect world, no one would commit heinous crimes, so, it's a moot point.
Always and never. Death doesn't need to be earned. It'll happen anyway. I find it kind of strange to think of it as a punishment. I don't feel that someone who has killed should be killed, but it doesn't matter to me if they are. I've never understood how people can believe life to be precious, then gorge themselves on dead animals for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Nobody deserves to die for a crime. But people deserve to die if that crime can be avoided ... within certain restriction.
For excample, how much harm that they would cause if allowed to act without restriction? Or is the person beyond reasonable doubt to cause a large catastrophe? If you look at it objectively, even innocent people deaserve to die if it can avert a greater catastrophe ... but only if that catastrophe cannot be averted in any meaningful or sufficiently cost effective way beforehand.
For example, it is right that a Captain give his life to make sure all his crewmen survive ... that he or she is the last person to conduct an abandonment of the vessel. That does not, however, mean that a Captain should go down with their ship ...
It only means that a Captain should go down with their ship if it helps to save as many crewmembers as possible. That there is no shadow of doubt that there isn't more than can be done aboard the vessel prior to abandonning it yourself.
Very ... very fine line. But nobody should die if someone is safely secured away and is nop longer a threat.
For excample, how much harm that they would cause if allowed to act without restriction? Or is the person beyond reasonable doubt to cause a large catastrophe? If you look at it objectively, even innocent people deaserve to die if it can avert a greater catastrophe ... but only if that catastrophe cannot be averted in any meaningful or sufficiently cost effective way beforehand.
For example, it is right that a Captain give his life to make sure all his crewmen survive ... that he or she is the last person to conduct an abandonment of the vessel. That does not, however, mean that a Captain should go down with their ship ...
It only means that a Captain should go down with their ship if it helps to save as many crewmembers as possible. That there is no shadow of doubt that there isn't more than can be done aboard the vessel prior to abandonning it yourself.
Very ... very fine line. But nobody should die if someone is safely secured away and is nop longer a threat.
Court situation
I have no idea how it generally works. I do not support the death penalty and we do not have it. I do not like the thought of an innocent person being put to death, you cannot exactly reverse that if its found out.
However if it is used I feel it should only be used on those who kill and/or torcher, have done on multiple occasions, have been given a chance of forgiveness or at least as much as can be given. Not for theft or drugs. It should only be used for the worse of the worse, which from the sounds of it is not the case.
If someone kills in prison they should go they got there warning when they arrived.
Spire of the mentent thing
You do not know until you are in it...threaten me or my family with force and I will do all I can to stop you going as far as killing if it comes to that and depending what?s at hand. I may show restaint I may not I may just brake his or her legs and hands and leave him...I may Freeze and die you don't know.
I have no idea how it generally works. I do not support the death penalty and we do not have it. I do not like the thought of an innocent person being put to death, you cannot exactly reverse that if its found out.
However if it is used I feel it should only be used on those who kill and/or torcher, have done on multiple occasions, have been given a chance of forgiveness or at least as much as can be given. Not for theft or drugs. It should only be used for the worse of the worse, which from the sounds of it is not the case.
If someone kills in prison they should go they got there warning when they arrived.
Spire of the mentent thing
You do not know until you are in it...threaten me or my family with force and I will do all I can to stop you going as far as killing if it comes to that and depending what?s at hand. I may show restaint I may not I may just brake his or her legs and hands and leave him...I may Freeze and die you don't know.
The reason I brought up troy Davis was because of how wrongly accused he was and how this is a common thing. Thats terrible and wrong, im sure when they said case closed they thought it was 100%. But the future can bring new evidence.gmaverick019 said:
So your telling me that Death is the only way to keep dangerous people out of the world? We could just simply lock them up in solitary confinement and let them rot like the deserve. Die unoticed, unloved, and unwanted. And Criminal injection costs way more than in a life sentence.
People that deserve death; any who cause pain and suffering with no remorse, use their born talents for greed and corruption, people in power that manipulate society into dogma and use propaganda to vilify any opposition, and terrorist acts (killing innocents in the crossfire negates any form of sympathy or support).
Born in the USA and my state has no death penalty. I hate my Country and States justice system in every possible way. It is full of corruption, political agendas, biased toward certain individuals and groups, hard to change things once something is passed into law even if it is illogical, amount of money it takes for small cases, and lawsuits for idiotic things like pouring coffee on your crotch and suing the facility that gave you the coffee then winning millions of dollars.
Born in the USA and my state has no death penalty. I hate my Country and States justice system in every possible way. It is full of corruption, political agendas, biased toward certain individuals and groups, hard to change things once something is passed into law even if it is illogical, amount of money it takes for small cases, and lawsuits for idiotic things like pouring coffee on your crotch and suing the facility that gave you the coffee then winning millions of dollars.
I agree completely. I posted my reaction to the OP in the second post... I merely posted about the costs due to one of the users here deciding to base his moral/ethical opinion seemingly on cost alone, so I thought I'd open some eyes.StrixMaxima said:
You're right about the US having some pretty ridiculous costs, but those were just the stats I found after just a few minutes of searching. And a lot of the users here are from the US so I thought it'd be relevant to a lot of people, even if it's not so relevant to others...
No one actually has complete control over whether someone lives or dies. Sure, there are some monsters out there that do horrible and despicable things, but we cannot go around killing anyone that makes us sick to our stomach.
The only reason the death penalty exists is because the courts are unable to dispatch "cruel and unusual punishment" to its prisoners. Rather than flailing the crap out of those who truly deserve a slow and painful death, we have resort to a more 'humane' approach: lethal injection.
The only reason the death penalty exists is because the courts are unable to dispatch "cruel and unusual punishment" to its prisoners. Rather than flailing the crap out of those who truly deserve a slow and painful death, we have resort to a more 'humane' approach: lethal injection.
Well, this is a different argument, but is it really better to lock a person up than to kill him? I, personally, would rather die, but whatever.zehydra said:
Really, it comes down to Consequentialism Vs. Deontology. Is it better to save money by killing such "bad people" and not let them soak up tax dollars, or is it better to quarantine them so they can do no more harm. They do nothing productive and cost more, but you are more "in the right", I guess.
Personally, since the "Life in Prison>Death" is questionable at best, I think it is probably a lot more efficient to employ the death penalty. But I can definitely see your point of view. You are technically "more in the right", but I just don't know if it is worth it to the rest of us.
that is awful yes, but that is ONE case amongst the millions that have been gone through. human error is bound to mess up somewhere, a perfect society we are not.enzilewulf said:
it's not the only way, not one bit, but it guarantees that they will never be able to do a damn thing to anyone ever again, ever hear about how many guards/helpers at prisons get stabbed/killed/etc..? it happens much too often, and is extremely tragic, letting that killer/molester live allowed that person to die.
and yes we could, but that generally isn't how it goes, like i said "three hots and a cot" plus some amenities are usually given. their humanity was lost when they pulled that shit, i see no reason why they should have it better than anyone else out there who isn't in prison but is stuck in a shitty place (like a 3rd world country, a begger on the street, etc..)
and yes, that was gone over before in the thread already, the injection itself is dirt cheap, but the stupid trials/legal fees for it all cost an arm and a leg, which most of us were speaking hypothetically if you didn't have all that bullshit so they didn't use up money they weren't worth, it'd be easier that way.
I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.zehydra said:
I've already said it. A few times.zehydra said:
If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.