When does someone deserve death?

[NightHawk21]

A lot less then it takes to kill a single person.

In the US it takes an average of $30,000 a year per inmate depending on state and the level of security they're under as well as things like medical treatment and transportation.

A bullet costs less than a dollar.

If you want to be clean about it a syringe costs a few dollars at most and a lethal dose of morphine would be less than $100 even if they're an obscenely large person.

I see no reason to bother with three separate chemicals that cause the systematic failure of organs when the same thing can be accomplished for much less. And even so lethal injections are not extremely costly to begin with.

That train of logic only makes sense if your some sort of vigilante. A normal convict has to go through and entire legal system which adds up to an absurd sum of money. I don't quite remember the numbers, it was a while since I wrote a paper on this subject but I believe someone posted rough sums in this thread. In reality after the legal process the cost of killing someone is multiple times the cost of housing them for life.

Which is why I cited alternative means for killing someone. Also you did not make it clear that you were discussing a cumulative sum as opposed to the flat rate of the procedure and materials. In the future you should clarify.

But you still bring up the issue of time which I believe is a serious problem. Why keep someone on death row for five, ten, or even longer? Granted, evidence occasionally surfaces that hinges on new technology or investigative processes but most inmates that are on death row are there to stay. I never understood the need to keep someone around for a decade when you already plan on killing them for their crimes. Never made sense to me especially in instances where the evidence against them was utterly damning.

I was just making a point. I personally don't believe in the death penalty in its current state (mind you I'm Canadian and we don't have the death penalty [anymore I think, can't remember the punishment for treason]). That being said IMO if a person is convicted of one of the more serious crimes (serial killer/rapist, etc.) they should not be thrown in prison (the kind that exists today) but in an old fashion dungeon that is damp cold and left to wallow in their own filth until they die. But that's just my opinion.

As for the post, well I don't really know I didn't write the laws lol. All I can say is that in its current state the death penalty is a stupid idea.

 

[myth_21]

Although I have my reservations on the death penalty, sometimes I can't help feeling like that, thinking that some people do deserve it.

If a person killed my entire family, yeah I'd probably want him dead. But I don't feel its the law's responsibility to take revenge on my behalf, as fruitless a venture that may be. Killing the person doesn't make anything better. Besides, there are things worse than death, you know?

 

[Sandernista]

Never.

No one deserves to die.

No one.

 

[Nick Smit]

Hmm, Interesting question. I think the death penalty would be very difficult to operate efficiently and correctly at the same time. For example, after someone who was apparently proven beyond a doubt of being guilty is executed, new evidence surfaces proving they were innocent. But if it is 100% percent certain, I don't think it would be useful either. You cannot undo what has already been committed, killing them does not reverse the damage, rather the only situation I would suggest it would be if there was absolutely no other way of stopping them from committing a crime, like it's the joker and you know he's just going to break out and kill a bunch of people by next week (or something).

1. If it was just between me and some stranger, and there wasn't any foreseeable future consequences from that decision, I think I'd let him kill me before I killed him, but you never know, self preservation might have something else to say at that moment.

2. As I rambled on before, death doesn't bring satisfaction, or redemption, I think it should only be used as a lesser evil to the consequences of letting such a person go.

This is why morals and logic become rather interchangeable. If I think about this is the logical way of "preserve as much human life as possible", it brings me to thinking "is the preservation of human life really the moral high ground?", if we preserve and nurture to the point we're all living in squalor and poverty, and destroying the planet, was it really the right thing to do?

Oh, and Australia.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

Well it's shitty, but sometimes you prevent more horrible incidents with prison, but the truth is why should a monster's life cost more than mine?

 

[emeraldrafael]

id go more by case by case basis really.

Though theres one person i've already resigned that one day one of us may kill the other.

 

[CobraX]

No One Deserves Death and the minute we as a Society start determining what actions make someone Deserve death we start determining what a life is worth to us, Which there is not right answer to nor is there a wrong answer. Thus in good judgement I could never kill someone or support having someone killed as I have no clue what a life is worth and never will.

Now with all that Wise man shit out of the way let me say that if it was a either I Kill this guy or he kills me scenario then that bastard's going DOWN!

 

[ecoho]

Death for those who cause death. Plain and simple. Though probably shouldn't apply to soldiers.

hm, why are soldiers exempt?

Well, they're soldiers. They're being PAID to kill people. Won't be nice to hand them their paycheck then cut their heads off.

Well, there's hitmen off the hook. Thank goodness for that.

OT: Those who will cause death if they are allowed to live. Good luck proving it though.

are you seriously comparing solders to hitmen?! you sir need to go out read a book and then come back. there is so much wrong with your statement i just dont know what to say other then i hope you never become the head of anything.

Wipe the froth away from your mouth and take a deep breath.

It was just a smartarse joke. He said soldiers get to kill because they're paid to do it. So I said, "Oh, so that's hitmen off the hook". Ha ha. Because hitmen get paid to kill. Get it?

...

Also, you really shouldn't tell someone they need to read a book while displaying the written grammar of a bloody ten year old.

Are you seriously comparing soldiers to hitmen?! You sir, need to go out, [comma] read a book and then come back. There is so much wrong with your statement [that] i just don't know what to say other then I hope you never become the head of anything.

So kindly go read a fucking book. If you are able to.

bad joke is bad. as for my fucking grammar and spelling
1. solder is how its spelled look it up.
2. i happen to be dyslexic so spelling is a ***** for me
and finally im not gonna fucking proof read for grammar for a fucking post on an internet forum.
Oh and even being dyslexic im capable of reading at an amazing rate.

 

[Torrasque]

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Very good question Mr. zehydra.

Let me add a question:
Who decides what sort of crime deserves death anyway?

What about those loud noisy kids in the bus. Those that disturb you while you just want to get from point A to B. They are not going to contribute anything useful to our society. So why not kill them?

Why not kill those "My little pony friendship is magic" fanboys (and girls) because some of them are insultingly provocative and some percentage could turn out to be potential new child molestors?
The problem isn't only about what crimes define death penalty but who is in charge over life and death. Once you put someone into the position to decide over life and death of someone else you give that person too much power. That will go wrong. That's what history told us so far about this completely f*cked up human race.

Sorry if my answer comes late, I left to play Starcraft for a bit, and thought this thread died, so I didn't pay attention to it.

You are the person who decides what sorts of crimes deserve death, in this thread at least.
That is what I want you to answer for me, what kind of crimes deserve death (if any) ?

 

[Torrasque]

2. You are the judge over a murder case. You can either give the guy a death sentence, or something else.

Depends on the Murder

but i would kill him most likely when another human kills another for there own needs or wants. Then they properly shouldn't be alive

Ok, then please tell me what kind of murder would warrant a death sentence, and what kind of murder would not.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

1: I will kill him one to spare my own life and those around me and those in the future he might harm.

2:If there was no doubt in my mind that he was guilty of murdering another person he would be killed, made an example of for all those who murder for greed and revenge.

Those who cause death and destruction without reason or only to fuel their own greed, those who cause unbridled sadness and agony and those who takes lives without first feeling the life they take should all be killed.

 

[Zeema]

2. You are the judge over a murder case. You can either give the guy a death sentence, or something else.

Depends on the Murder

but i would kill him most likely when another human kills another for there own needs or wants. Then they properly shouldn't be alive

Ok, then please tell me what kind of murder would warrant a death sentence, and what kind of murder would not.

its not about the Murder

i would send everyone to death

but if someones case was Crazily insane like lets say guy cuts off the legs and arms of children and throws them into a ditch.

i would say life long physical torture and make sure he lives every day with violent torture

 

[Zhukov]

bad joke is bad. as for my fucking grammar and spelling
1. solder is how its spelled look it up.
2. i happen to be dyslexic so spelling is a ***** for me
and finally im not gonna fucking proof read for grammar for a fucking post on an internet forum.
Oh and even being dyslexic im capable of reading at an amazing rate.

Bad joke is bad because it isn't particularly funny? If so, then yes, you're right, it wasn't that funny. But if that's your problem, you could have just said, "You're joke really isn't funny" or something to that effect. Y'know, rather than pitching a fit and hurling insults like a child.

Also, no, it really isn't spelled "solder". Solder is a kind of metal alloy with a low melting point. It's used like glue when working with metal. Look it up. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solder]

A "soldier", when spelled correctly with an "I", is a person who fights in an army.

 

[Torrasque]

Ok, after reading all of the posts, I have come to several conclusions.

1. Half of you think killing is never ok, but have different opinions of what to do with the person instead of killing them. Life in prison/solitary confinement, and torture were the main choices, and in some cases, you'd actually try to rectify the person to get them back into society. I think we can all agree though, that the amount of rectification would depend on their crime, and would have to be damn certain that they were rectified, so we don't have repeat offenders out on the streets.

2. The other half of you think killing is ok, but there was a bit of gray area about what constitutes killing. Everything from: touching kids, to killing a busload of grandmas, to rape. Most of the examples were taking the life of another, which seems to imply that most of you (in this half at least) believe the phrase "An eye for an eye".

3. There is a bit of debate about what the purpose of prisons is, and I have to agree, it really does depend on the country. The US has the most prisoners out of any other country (as a percentage), so it is safe to assume that it is for the sake of quarantine. I think we can all agree that we don't want prisoners out on the street with normal people, but is quarantine really all that should be done for them? If you stick prisoners in prison, even if it is for their entire lives, what good does that do? I think putting someone in prison for life is a passive way of killing them, something that I am not ok with. Another point that was brought up, was the cost of prisons and the actual killing process of a death sentence. I didn't want this to enter discussion, but I didn't make that clear in the original post, and figured this thread had died, so didn't think of adding it in.

To re-state my original post, I want you to decide whether it is ok to kill a person or not, and in what circumstances is it ok to kill someone, and when it is not. A really simple question, but you have to do a couple things to get to the answer that I want:
- Ignore the laws and regulations of your country. I don't want to know what your country does, I want to know what you would do if the choice was completely up to you.
- Decide what to do with the person after you have decided to kill them or keep them alive. You can tell that some people's answers depend on what they think can and should be done with them after the fact, and I didn't want that to happen. I just want to know whether you think it is ok or not to kill someone, not "Well now that they are not dead, what now? Well they stay in prison and suck up my cash for the rest of their life... I am changing my answer to: kill the bastard"
- Ignore the process that must be taken in judging the person guilty or not, and the process that leads to them dying. In this thread, the decision is made by you. You either decide the person will live, or they will die. If they die, a pit opens up beneath them and they are disintegrated. This way, all irrelevant things can be ignored, like the cost of re-trials, appeals, how much it costs to kill a guy, lawyers, etc.

I am glad everyone contributed their bit, the discussion was (heated at times) but interesting. I am glad to see that there are several conflicting opinions from the states, which supports my belief that you aren't all murdering psychopaths (lol, kidding). I imagine if we got a good percentage of the internet to weigh in, most would not support the killing people (or they could be convinced otherwise if they were to answer as I would like them to answer). I say "the internet" because the public is ignorant and stupid. Besides, the internet is the boiling pot of opinions, and only the strongest ones survive.

Also, I know that was really TL;DR, but I hope everyone that weighed in, reads it.
It would be nice if you stated what your opinion was under the new clarified circumstances, but I won't bend your leg to make you do it

*comes back to 200 posts later*
lawl, I wish.

 

[Torrasque]

"When does somebody deserve death?" is the wrong question to explain why death penalty should be abolished worldwide.

The question is "when should the government make you kill somebody?" and the answer to that one is "never".

It's not about whether I think a killer is "bad enough" that he or she deserves to get killed. That has never been what this is about. It's about whether or not I as a citizen want to be a part of institutionalized murder, and I don't. I don't care who's getting murdered or why, I want no part of it.

Of course, you can argue that war also gets people killed, and no, I don't oppose armies, although I think war is a thing to avoid, as does everybody else, I hope. But that's the same difference there is between revenge murder and self defence, and there is a reason why one of those is legal and the other isn't.

This thread is less about the death penalty, and more about ending a person's life.
The death penalty is merely the vehicle that ends peoples lives; the "publicly acceptable" way of killing someone that has performed a heinous crime.

 

[Vigilantis]

...

...

Instead of death for the most horrible of actions, what fate should they receive?
For the worst of the worst, those who are downright terrible people and have no chance at being rehabilitated, I'd suggest that they are locked up for a very, very long time (e.g. for the rest of their life in some of the worse cases).

...

Hope you enjoy paying for three squares a day, housing, clothing, medical and the like for 'em!

"Enjoy" is not the word I'd use. However, yes, I'd put up with it. ^_^

Well shoot I know what I'm doing when I lose my job, family, house and all my money. Really who wouldn't want to be a murderer if this guy is gonna pay for my living expenses for the rest of my life?

Got to agree with the Punisher on page one to an extent...I believe that there are those that are redeemable and there are those who cannot/will not be changed, and some of those rabid dogs just need to be put down.

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

...

...

Instead of death for the most horrible of actions, what fate should they receive?
For the worst of the worst, those who are downright terrible people and have no chance at being rehabilitated, I'd suggest that they are locked up for a very, very long time (e.g. for the rest of their life in some of the worse cases).

...

Hope you enjoy paying for three squares a day, housing, clothing, medical and the like for 'em!

"Enjoy" is not the word I'd use. However, yes, I'd put up with it. ^_^

Well shoot I know what I'm doing when I lose my job, family, house and all my money. Really who wouldn't want to be a murderer if this guy is gonna pay for my living expenses for the rest of my life?

...

I refer you to one of my posts on the second page:

*snip*

If money is all you care about, then you also should probably be not asking for the death penalty.
Plus, it's not exactly like life in prison is a vacation.

 

[Vigilantis]

Compared to freezing to death and starving out on the streets? Atleast in prison should I survive the shanking the prison itself has to patch me up, were I stabbed in downtown Seattle I most assuredly would die on the sidewalk as people walk passed my corpse for a few hours.

Yeah no its not only a vacation its a godsend if you are in a shitty condition which I have no doubt many are.

And where did I comment that money is all I care about? Please quote. I simply stated that if you are handing out the cash to pay for room and board I have no problem in accepting your terms and should that mean I have to go kill a few old ladies so be it. (I'll throw in a few kittens if you somehow get them to put a TV in my cell)

 

[thiosk]

I'm from california, and anyone who claims that star wars episodes 1-3 are better than 4-6 are crazy and should probably be put down before they harm society.

 

[Bob_Dobb]

Harsh punishments to scare off criminals work well, when the court systems work well.

Although death could be substituted with life imprisonment or listening to X amount of time of Friday on loop.