When Dragon Age II Fell Apart

[RJ 17]

Great article filled with perfectly valid points.

Another that I would bring up is how hard it is to have any sympathy for the Mages at all. You're supposed to feel sorry for the as they're locked up like prisoners in a building that actually used to be a prison. Meredith enacts the harshest of all punishments, Tranquilization, a fate that would be considered infinitely worse than death itself for even the slights of infractions. Annnnnnnnnnnnd yet every - single - mage you encounter is a blood mage. Even the quest where you're trying to find a young mage boy who has apparently been kidnapped by slavers, you go to a werehouse out in the docks and find the slavers ganging up on a poor mage girl who's begging for help....then just up and turns into an abomination. It's really hard to say "Yeah, the Templars are definitely being too harsh on these poor mages" when it certainly seems that everything the Templars say is true. Orsino is the only level-headed mage you encounter in the entire game, and even HE turns out to be a blood mage/abomination in the end. True, the Lyrium Idol that Meredith had forged into her great sword clearly drove her insane the way it drove Varric's brother insane...people said "Meredith has gone mad! She sees blood magic everywhere!" Well maybe that's because Kirkwall is filled with blood mages! I mean hell, you yourself have the option of becoming a blood mage, and yet NO ONE EVER CALLS YOU ON IT! Everyone in your party knows that blood magic is a terrible, evil thing, and yet every time you slit your own throat or impale yourself on your staff to draw blood for the blood magic, everyone just kinda....looks the other way. I mean hell, you can put on a full show of blood magic in front of every noble in the city when you have the duel against the Ari'shok (spelling), but apparently you're the Champion so using magic that is absolutely 10,000% forbidden by Templars AND Mages is alright.

There's that quest where a mage-sympathizing Templar calls you out to a cave and says "A bunch of escaped mages are hiding in here. If I go in they'll think I'm there to arrest them, but I want you to go in and help them escape before the rest of the Templars get here." Once you reach the end, the mages beg for their lives at which point you can either turn them over to the Templars or indeed let them all go. The thing is it makes absolutely no difference which choice you make because you see those same mages again in the next act. If you turned them over to the Templars, they're understandably pissed off at you. If you let them go, apparently within a couple days they were captured again and they immediately blame you for it...which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And, sure enough, they all turn out to be blood mages anyways and they all end up dying by your hand on the Wounded Coast. That being the case, why couldn't you have the choice to kill them all in the cave to begin with? "Oh because those are the mages that end up kidnapping your sibling in the final act." Yeah, well I took Anders with me to the Deep Roads so my sibling neither died nor joined the circle/templars, he/she got to live on as a member of the Grey Wardens.

Which brings up the subject of Anders himself. Clearly he is an extremist, as crazy of a mage as Meredith is crazy as a templar. Why in god's name do you trust a person who is clearly possessed? Granted, you're given the option to either not take him or kick him out of the party any time you wish, but it makes no difference. He still flips out and blows up the church. If you side with the Templars, you should immediately see that he is an abomination and either turn him in or kill him on sight. If you side with the Mages, you should see that he is clearly a danger to everyone around him and to the Mage's cause and either turn him in or kill him on sight. The blame for the church getting kerploded in what is apparently the fantasy equivalent of a magical nuclear bomb lies at the feet of Hawke for not doing something about Anders sooner. Just because I hate extremism in any form, Anders was my least favorite character and thus least used character (which kinda sucks since he's supposed to be your healer ), but that said I did like how if you bring him to the Deep Roads with you your sibling gets to join the Grey Wardens rather than dying of the Blight or, if you left them back at home, joining the Circle or Templars. Also I liked how if you take him with you on that quest where you enter the Dreamwalker's dream, he actually turns into Justice.

There were numerous other problems with the story, but all in all I thought it was pulled off well. I really liked how the story was actually told as a story, one of Varric's legends and tales. It makes the games narrative an actual narrative. To be honest, I had my own problems and nit-picks with the story (such as what I mentioned about it's hard to call Meredith crazy for seeing blood magic everywhere when there IS blood magic everywhere) and this article has added some new ones to the list. But in the end I still liked the story. Though another reason the ending sucked was that it really didn't matter which side you chose, you still end up killing all the mages and Meredith, so that kinda blows.

But hey, at least Bioware managed to 1-up themselves as far as creating a character that was sexier than Morrigan from Dragon Age: Origins. Mmmmmmmmm.....Isabella...the dirty pirate hooker..... :3

For all the tl-dr losers out there, here's the short version: It's hard to sympathize with the mages, it's hard to call Meredith crazy for seeing blood magic everywhere since there is blood magic everywhere, another couple exmaples of choices that make no difference which one you choose, no matter how you look at it Anders should have been killed or imprisoned the moment you met him, and Isabella is a sexy, dirty little pirate hooker.

 

[i64ever]

Nice for Escapist to tell me all about DA2's flaws ONE YEAR AFTER THEY PRAISED IT AS THE PERFECT GAME encouraging me to spend $50 on it. I'm sorry, this article just makes the editorial staff look bad.

 

[Nimcha]

I haven't gotten around to playing DA2 yet but I've been following it and the controversy surrounding it as closely as I can. That seems like a fantastic ending to me, and right in line with everything else I've heard about the game. DA2 seems to be very much about boldly destroying a lot of the classic fantasy tropes we've come to expect, rather then simply subverting them as it's predecessor usually did. Hero's have lives beyond a single journey that takes them to a single dramatic resolution, tales are unreliable, and not all dwarves have beards.

Maybe the execution was off, I wouldn't know.

Yeah that was the biggest problem really. The idea was great, but it does seem they ran out of time before pulling it off well enough. I still really like the idea that no matter what you choose you can't win, like others said it's a nice change in perspective from normal fantasy RPGs. If only they'd have had more time to pull it off...

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

DA 2 is an example of one of the few times a will whole heartedly agree with Yahtzee. I don't know the exact quote but it goes omething like " a sequel has to be bigger than the original" Correct me if im wrong ill edit it or something.

DA 2 story was unfocused and only hinted at an overarching plot towards the end. I found the Quanari more interesting than growing tensions between Templar and Mage. Anyway back to my point. Dragon Age: origns plot was focused and always there: Defeat the arch demon and stop the blight a possible world ravaging disaster. Nearly every part of DA: O was raising an army or some other means to combat said evil invasion and an evil invasion of twisted monstrosities is a bigger deal (in my opinion) to wheter the poor mages have there ickle freedom ( I might have considered siding with them if Anders wasn't as zealous as Meridith if not more so).

All in all DA: 2 feels down graded in the story department its not as epic, sweeping or moving, its just some guy/girl piddling about in a city for awhile. The characters are still fantastic though (aside from Merrill and Anders)

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

Great article filled with perfectly valid points.

Another that I would bring up is how hard it is to have any sympathy for the Mages at all. You're supposed to feel sorry for the as they're locked up like prisoners in a building that actually used to be a prison. Meredith enacts the harshest of all punishments, Tranquilization, a fate that would be considered infinitely worse than death itself for even the slights of infractions. Annnnnnnnnnnnd yet every - single - mage you encounter is a blood mage. Even the quest where you're trying to find a young mage boy who has apparently been kidnapped by slavers, you go to a werehouse out in the docks and find the slavers ganging up on a poor mage girl who's begging for help....then just up and turns into an abomination. It's really hard to say "Yeah, the Templars are definitely being too harsh on these poor mages" when it certainly seems that everything the Templars say is true. Orsino is the only level-headed mage you encounter in the entire game, and even HE turns out to be a blood mage/abomination in the end. True, the Lyrium Idol that Meredith had forged into her great sword clearly drove her insane the way it drove Varric's brother insane...people said "Meredith has gone mad! She sees blood magic everywhere!" Well maybe that's because Kirkwall is filled with blood mages! I mean hell, you yourself have the option of becoming a blood mage, and yet NO ONE EVER CALLS YOU ON IT! Everyone in your party knows that blood magic is a terrible, evil thing, and yet every time you slit your own throat or impale yourself on your staff to draw blood for the blood magic, everyone just kinda....looks the other way. I mean hell, you can put on a full show of blood magic in front of every noble in the city when you have the duel against the Ari'shok (spelling), but apparently you're the Champion so using magic that is absolutely 10,000% forbidden by Templars AND Mages is alright.

There's that quest where a mage-sympathizing Templar calls you out to a cave and says "A bunch of escaped mages are hiding in here. If I go in they'll think I'm there to arrest them, but I want you to go in and help them escape before the rest of the Templars get here." Once you reach the end, the mages beg for their lives at which point you can either turn them over to the Templars or indeed let them all go. The thing is it makes absolutely no difference which choice you make because you see those same mages again in the next act. If you turned them over to the Templars, they're understandably pissed off at you. If you let them go, apparently within a couple days they were captured again and they immediately blame you for it...which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And, sure enough, they all turn out to be blood mages anyways and they all end up dying by your hand on the Wounded Coast. That being the case, why couldn't you have the choice to kill them all in the cave to begin with? "Oh because those are the mages that end up kidnapping your sibling in the final act." Yeah, well I took Anders with me to the Deep Roads so my sibling neither died nor joined the circle/templars, he/she got to live on as a member of the Grey Wardens.

Which brings up the subject of Anders himself. Clearly he is an extremist, as crazy of a mage as Meredith is crazy as a templar. Why in god's name do you trust a person who is clearly possessed? Granted, you're given the option to either not take him or kick him out of the party any time you wish, but it makes no difference. He still flips out and blows up the church. If you side with the Templars, you should immediately see that he is an abomination and either turn him in or kill him on sight. If you side with the Mages, you should see that he is clearly a danger to everyone around him and to the Mage's cause and either turn him in or kill him on sight. The blame for the church getting kerploded in what is apparently the fantasy equivalent of a magical nuclear bomb lies at the feet of Hawke for not doing something about Anders sooner. Just because I hate extremism in any form, Anders was my least favorite character and thus least used character (which kinda sucks since he's supposed to be your healer ), but that said I did like how if you bring him to the Deep Roads with you your sibling gets to join the Grey Wardens rather than dying of the Blight or, if you left them back at home, joining the Circle or Templars. Also I liked how if you take him with you on that quest where you enter the Dreamwalker's dream, he actually turns into Justice.

There were numerous other problems with the story, but all in all I thought it was pulled off well. I really liked how the story was actually told as a story, one of Varric's legends and tales. It makes the games narrative an actual narrative. To be honest, I had my own problems and nit-picks with the story (such as what I mentioned about it's hard to call Meredith crazy for seeing blood magic everywhere when there IS blood magic everywhere) and this article has added some new ones to the list. But in the end I still liked the story. Though another reason the ending sucked was that it really didn't matter which side you chose, you still end up killing all the mages and Meredith, so that kinda blows.

But hey, at least Bioware managed to 1-up themselves as far as creating a character that was sexier than Morrigan from Dragon Age: Origins. Mmmmmmmmm.....Isabella...the dirty pirate hooker..... :3

For all the tl-dr losers out there, here's the short version: It's hard to sympathize with the mages, it's hard to call Meredith crazy for seeing blood magic everywhere since there is blood magic everywhere, another couple exmaples of choices that make no difference which one you choose, no matter how you look at it Anders should have been killed or imprisoned the moment you met him, and Isabella is a sexy, dirty little pirate hooker.

^ This. My feelings on the subject exactly (if only I read the thread before posting my own )

 

[Gather]

There is also a few other problems with Dragon Age 2 and one of the biggest is that there are no consequences; only shortcuts.

You lived at Kirkwall for 10 something years and when someone said "I'll get you for this!" while angrily shaking their fists they never did get you for that (Or when you were used for something and you wanted revenge... You never got that).

You acts as a "noble" never really amounted to anything, you never received any profits from the Dragon Mines between the years (Only quests to kill things) and Kirkwall never changed.

It could have just been a cosmetic change between the more noticable seasons (Winter, spring and Autumn). The city could have had a festival to celebrate random yearly event but no they never took advantage of the one solid place. It was a brilliant idea that was executed terribly.

Then you had that wonderful gem where a character came back to life "BECAUSE I SAID SO; PATHETIC CUSTOMERS!" (Which was never elaborated on... I think). Man that was a PR blunder.

Spoiler

 

[RJ 17]

DA 2 is an example of one of the few times a will whole heartedly agree with Yahtzee. I don't know the exact quote but it goes omething like " a sequel has to be bigger than the original" Correct me if im wrong ill edit it or something.

DA 2 story was unfocused and only hinted at an overarching plot towards the end. I found the Quanari more interesting than growing tensions between Templar and Mage. Anyway back to my point. Dragon Age: origns plot was focused and always there: Defeat the arch demon and stop the blight a possible world ravaging disaster. Nearly every part of DA: O was raising an army or some other means to combat said evil invasion and an evil invasion of twisted monstrosities is a bigger deal (in my opinion) to wheter the poor mages have there ickle freedom ( I might have considered siding with them if Anders wasn't as zealous as Meridith if not more so).

All in all DA: 2 feels down graded in the story department its not as epic, sweeping or moving, its just some guy/girl piddling about in a city for awhile. The characters are still fantastic though (aside from Merrill and Anders)

I have heard that argument a number of times, that the story seemed "unfocused", "without purpose", that - as you said - "it's just some guy/girl piddling about in a city for a while". To that I remind people that that's actually what the story is /supposed/ to be like. You're not a Grey Warden, you're not out to raise an army to overthrow a tyrannical usurper to the thrown while also fighting back a world devouring evil. You're just a single person who fled The Blight. The story of DA 2 is the story of Hawke's life in Kirkwall. You arrive as a nobody who can't even enter the city, so you sign up with some thieves or mercs just to get in. After a year or so, Hawke finds himself/herself in need of money so he/she joins up with an expedition. Striking it rich on this expedition, he/she is able to catipult himself/herself up the social ladder to being an aristocrat, if not an out-right noble. Now being someone of mild importance, Hawke finds himself/herself mixed up with the Qunari threat. In the eyes of the Ari'shok, Hawke is the only worthy human in the entire city, and as such he challenges him/her to single combat to decide the City's fate. Upon defeating the Ari'shok and saving the city, Hawke officially becomes one of, if not THE most important person in the city. Given that Hawke is now essentially the #1 peace-keeper, it falls to him/her to resolve the mage/templar situation.

In short, that's what the story of DA 2 is supposed to be. It is nothing more than Hawke's life playing out in Kirkwall, the story of how a refugee goes from being a bottom feeder to the single most important person in the city (even becoming Vicount if you play your cards right). You can't fault it for being "unfocused" or "without purpose" because indeed there is no over-arching goal. Hawke never wanted to become the Champion, it just happened. Hawke never wanted to get mixed up in the mage and templar situation, it just happened. Cest la vie.

 

[Kahunaburger]

it's hard to call Meredith crazy for seeing blood magic everywhere since there is blood magic everywhere

Haha there's a certain logic to this. Of course, although she does realize she's basically living in the 40K universe, she ends up demanding blood for the blood god/skulls for the skull throne herself. Not that there's anything wrong with her going crazy - like many things in DA2, Meredith would have been effective if she had been done competently.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Spoiler

Ah, David Gaider. Why are you using energy to try to make people like your game by fiat when you could be using that energy to make a good game?

 

[Mirrorknight]

Bleh. It didn't even take that long for me to dislike DA2. I played a mage. There is one quest where a Templar Captain is being attacked by blood mage abominations. I come to the rescue by throwing electricity and ice from my hands and calling it from the sky. He didn't say anything about it.

A Templar Captain.
Seeing an apostate mage.
And not even bringing it up.

...what.

Doesn't matter if I saved his life. He needed to say something about it. He's a frigging templar captain! Even if it's just "Oh, you're an apostate...but since you saved my life, we'll just pretend I didn't see you shooting lightning from your butt". It's made out to be such a big deal (especially by Hawke's douchebag brother), and by the lore in general, but it's never ever brought up. No one seems to care despite the fact I twirl around a bloody mage staff around town! Gaaah!

Hell, and people say the narratives are good? They were crap! Varric was the only stand out character. Everyone else was, at best, unoffensive. At worst, they were completely one-dimensional.

Unimpressive visuals, re-used visuals, subpar music, pop in enemies, cookie cutter combat...and the ending...dear god. As someone said. Get the friggin town guard. Wipe out both sides. Screw them. Meredith is clearly insane. Mages are clearly corrupted. Scorched earth time. But nooooo...have to pick one side or the other. I absolutely hate when games shoehorn you into that without having the writing to back up WHY those were your only two choices. It's doubly infuriating that it's BioWare that did it.

I'm really sad that they put out such a crap game. I'm going to pick up Mass Effect 3, still. Got to see how it ends, after all. If that ends up being horrible as well, I'll wash my hands of BioWare. It'll obviously not be same company I grew up with.

 

[RJ 17]

I'm really sad that they put out such a crap game. I'm going to pick up Mass Effect 3, still. Got to see how it ends, after all. If that ends up being horrible as well, I'll wash my hands of BioWare. It'll obviously not be same company I grew up with.

That's pretty much how I feel about the situation. If ME 3 turns out to be a disappointment, it'll be safe to say that EA has officially sodomized Bioware to death.

 

[jawakiller]

I didn't like it, Skyrim and Dark Souls were better. A lot better. I don't understand why people still talk about this piece of shit. It wasn't good then so why does anybody expect it to get better as time goes on. It's not a bottle of wine.

But you're right, narration should never takes precedence over mechanics. Ever. Mechanics are the soul of a game. It comes first.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

DA 2 is an example of one of the few times a will whole heartedly agree with Yahtzee. I don't know the exact quote but it goes omething like " a sequel has to be bigger than the original" Correct me if im wrong ill edit it or something.

DA 2 story was unfocused and only hinted at an overarching plot towards the end. I found the Quanari more interesting than growing tensions between Templar and Mage. Anyway back to my point. Dragon Age: origns plot was focused and always there: Defeat the arch demon and stop the blight a possible world ravaging disaster. Nearly every part of DA: O was raising an army or some other means to combat said evil invasion and an evil invasion of twisted monstrosities is a bigger deal (in my opinion) to wheter the poor mages have there ickle freedom ( I might have considered siding with them if Anders wasn't as zealous as Meridith if not more so).

All in all DA: 2 feels down graded in the story department its not as epic, sweeping or moving, its just some guy/girl piddling about in a city for awhile. The characters are still fantastic though (aside from Merrill and Anders)

I have heard that argument a number of times, that the story seemed "unfocused", "without purpose", that - as you said - "it's just some guy/girl piddling about in a city for a while". To that I remind people that that's actually what the story is /supposed/ to be like. You're not a Grey Warden, you're not out to raise an army to overthrow a tyrannical usurper to the thrown while also fighting back a world devouring evil. You're just a single person who fled The Blight. The story of DA 2 is the story of Hawke's life in Kirkwall. You arrive as a nobody who can't even enter the city, so you sign up with some thieves or mercs just to get in. After a year or so, Hawke finds himself/herself in need of money so he/she joins up with an expedition. Striking it rich on this expedition, he/she is able to catipult himself/herself up the social ladder to being an aristocrat, if not an out-right noble. Now being someone of mild importance, Hawke finds himself/herself mixed up with the Qunari threat. In the eyes of the Ari'shok, Hawke is the only worthy human in the entire city, and as such he challenges him/her to single combat to decide the City's fate. Upon defeating the Ari'shok and saving the city, Hawke officially becomes one of, if not THE most important person in the city. Given that Hawke is now essentially the #1 peace-keeper, it falls to him/her to resolve the mage/templar situation.

In short, that's what the story of DA 2 is supposed to be. It is nothing more than Hawke's life playing out in Kirkwall, the story of how a refugee goes from being a bottom feeder to the single most important person in the city (even becoming Vicount if you play your cards right). You can't fault it for being "unfocused" or "without purpose" because indeed there is no over-arching goal. Hawke never wanted to become the Champion, it just happened. Hawke never wanted to get mixed up in the mage and templar situation, it just happened. Cest la vie.

I understand the story, the point is that in DA: 2 Hawke is champion of Kirkwall...one city. DA: O you save an entire country and become the Hero of Ferelden. Impacting a country is more world changing than one city. My point still stands that DA: 2 is of a smaller scale over a longer period of time hence: sequels should go up not down

 

[Tzekelkan]

I entirely agree with this article. I'd just like to add that not only do the people you side with prove to be wrong after all, but the other side proves to be wrong as well. Side with the Templars? Well Meredith is insane, but you kill Orsino as well. Side with the Mages? Well, Orsino is insane, but you kill Meredith as well.

What the hell, it makes no sense and runs totally counter to the whole dichotomy thing the game kept nagging you about. Although there are choices in Dragon Age 2, there is only one ending, and that sucks.

 

[justnotcricket]

Hm.

I liked Dragon Age 2 despite its oft-cited repetitive dungeons (although after 150 plus hours in Skyrim I'm starting to get mighty sick of 'hey look, another group of rogue mages/draugr/bandits/forsworn! Yay...'), and I also agree that the story did feel like it was sort of snatched out of my hands at the end. It annoyed me, as did (as someone else here has mentioned) knowing exactly what Anders was up to and not having the option to prevent it)

But then I was thinking a little more about it, and I came to the realisation that the lack of control at the end (for want of another way to put the problem), was actually pretty decent storytelling on its own. We get used, in videogames, whether playing as a good character or a bad one, to always coming out on top and having everyone listen to us. For most of Dragon Age, this happens...

..Then at the end, suddenly it's revealed that when things get down to the wire and tensions reach a head, sometimes people won't behave rationally any more, will show their true colours, will get paranoid and suspicious and turn on their friends, will do awful things in desperation, and all of a sudden, just wearing the shiny armor doesn't mean anyone is interested in actually listening to you or taking your advice.

I agree that perhaps there might have been a more elegant way to do it, but I think (whether it was intentional or not on Bioware's part!) that a sense of frustration and lack of control, of reversal and betrayal, at the end of Dragon Age 2 actually matched the stuff that was going down perfectly. Sometimes, the shit just hits the fan, and there ain't nothing you can do about it

*phew* Sorry for the wall o' text...also I see that a few people above me have kind of said a similar thing...

 

[RJ 17]

Big Snip

Bigger Snip

I understand the story, the point is that in DA: 2 Hawke is champion of Kirkwall...one city. DA: O you save an entire country and become the Hero of Ferelden. Impacting a country is more world changing than one city. My point still stands that DA: 2 is of a smaller scale over a longer period of time hence: sequels should go up not down

If that's your logic, then apparently you didn't fully understand the ending for DA 2. The events of Kirkwall at whih Hawke was at the very center changed the course of the entire world, not just a single country. Thanks to what happened in Kirkwall, there is now essentially a civil war raging across Thadeas as the Mages rebel against their Templar masters. By your own logic, the story of Kirkwall has an VASTLY greater impact than the story of Fereldin.

That said, it's entirely possible that you just didn't like the story, which I can understand fully. As I pointed out, DA 2 is nothing but "Days in the life of Hawke", what shinanigans will he/she get up to now? I'm just saying that if your biggest complaint is that the story just seemed much smaller (which, in the context of the game itself as you play it, I can understand), that's simply an incorrect notion seeing as how the entire reason that Varric is being interogated by the inquisitor (or whoever that lesbian is) during the narrative portions of the story is because what happened in Kirkwall caused all hell to break loose across the entire world.

But like I said, purely in the context of game-play story, you are 100% correct. Hawke's rise to Champion is much less grand a story than The Grey Warden's rise to commander of an army (which can potentially enlist Golems and Werewolves, hellz yeah!) that marches in an epic battle against Sauron's orcs....I mean The Darkspawn. But in terms of the story's over-all impact on the fantasy world of Thadeas, Hawke's story had a VASTLY greater impact.

 

[ms_sunlight]

1. Fight no-one. Hawke would just walk away and leave them to it. This would be a massive anti-climax. Good in a narrative sense, but awful in a gameplay sense.

You know, The Bard's Tale (2000s version) let you do just that. Side with uptight bigot druids or evil world-destroying goddess? Stuff that! I'm going to walk away and go get drunk with my new undead friends while the world goes to hell!

I did like that.

 

[Trishbot]

A problem with RPGs, and it's a hard problem to avoid, is when you're "in the role", whenever something comes up that gives a limit to your choices and none of those choices are the choices you'd make, the roleplaying illusion is shattered.

My Hawke would not side with the Templars OR the Mages. She was neutral. She choice the good of the whole city over any faction. Yet I got pigeon-holed into making a choice that, if I was REALLY making Hawke's decisions, I would have picked a third, differing option that sided with neither.

DA2, as a whole, was not a bad game, but it was vastly "unsatisfying" in many regards. It was clutter without clarity and busyness without purpose. You were less a champion, hero, or influential leader as you were just an under-appreciated janitor cleaning up Kirkwall's mess.

The game ended with little resolution, nothing felt finished, nothing felt satisfying, and everything was left in a state of ambiguity for very little reason. It was NOT "my journey", as Bioware games tend to be, but rather it was the journey they forced upon me that I endured, including a conclusion that was entirely divorced from my actions and philosophies.

It was the same problem Deus Ex: Human Revolution had with its boss fights; they broke the flow, they didn't fit my character's mold, and they forced me down a path my roleplaying choices would never have gone down. DA2 only did it on a much larger scale.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Big Snip

Bigger Snip

I understand the story, the point is that in DA: 2 Hawke is champion of Kirkwall...one city. DA: O you save an entire country and become the Hero of Ferelden. Impacting a country is more world changing than one city. My point still stands that DA: 2 is of a smaller scale over a longer period of time hence: sequels should go up not down

If that's your logic, then apparently you didn't fully understand the ending for DA 2. The events of Kirkwall at whih Hawke was at the very center changed the course of the entire world, not just a single country. Thanks to what happened in Kirkwall, there is now essentially a civil war raging across Thadeas as the Mages rebel against their Templar masters. By your own logic, the story of Kirkwall has an VASTLY greater impact than the story of Fereldin.

That said, it's entirely possible that you just didn't like the story, which I can understand fully. As I pointed out, DA 2 is nothing but "Days in the life of Hawke", what shinanigans will he/she get up to now? I'm just saying that if your biggest complaint is that the story just seemed much smaller (which, in the context of the game itself as you play it, I can understand), that's simply an incorrect notion seeing as how the entire reason that Varric is being interogated by the inquisitor (or whoever that lesbian is) during the narrative portions of the story is because what happened in Kirkwall caused all hell to break loose across the entire world.

But like I said, purely in the context of game-play story, you are 100% correct. Hawke's rise to Champion is much less grand a story than The Grey Warden's rise to commander of an army (which can potentially enlist Golems and Werewolves, hellz yeah!) that marches in an epic battle against Sauron's orcs....I mean The Darkspawn. But in terms of the story's over-all impact on the fantasy world of Thadeas, Hawke's story had a VASTLY greater impact.

I think I understand what both of you are trying to say, but what VeneratedWulfen93 is trying to say is that it should be in chronological order. Sure the events in Kirkwall triggered something huge, so that is the start of a chain reaction, but by calling the game Dragon Age 2 and having it like a prequel to other bigger events it seems kind of the wrong way round. People I guess are just more expecting things to get bigger as we go along, more in the Batman and Mass Effect type of things, without writing yourself into a corner.

I also enjoyed the more personal and character-centric story in the little town of Kirkwall, but I also think this could have come before the epic events that went down in Ferelden. It is a bit of a convention I'll admit, like many other big trilogies in movies (Star Wars, LOTR, etc)

 

[ImSkeletor]

He was not complaining about it not being black and white. He was mad that if he choses the mages they are evil and the templars are good. If he picks the templars they are evil and the mages are good. The mages should either become abominations neither way or both ways or else it doesn't make any sense.

But that isn't even the case. Whichever side you pick, Orsino becomes an Abomination (Harvester, actually) and in both cases Meredith is insane and you have to kill her. You only encounter blood mages in the gallows (aside from Orsino) if you sided with the templars.

Sorry then. Must have miss read the article or something. Feel a little stupid now.