When Endings Go Bad
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
It's true, thats exactly what i was thinking. Although the main character doesnt die from what you can tell everybody else does, the first time i played through it I was horrified after watching Grigs get shot in the neck then seeing the russians trying to revive Captain Price.lewiswhitling said:
In my oppinion this was the saddest ending to any game I have played and it did well in the way that it makes you sad, but doesnt anger the playing by making them feel useless as you still get to kill that one armed bastard.
I know at least 2 people already mentioned Persona 3. It was a VERY downer ending for me IMHO, but it was so well done that in the end, I was able to accept it and deem it the proper ending. Too often in games and movies, audiences come in with an expectation to get a happy ending, because "bad" endings seem to reflect real life in their eyes. And really, who wants to be reminded of real life when all they wanted was to be entertained?
However, downer endings shouldn't be thought of as "Bad" Endings. When I played Silent Hill 2 the first time, I got the "Really Bad Ending." I replayed the game in order to get the other endings, and found myself realizing that the more darker endings were more believable. If the "Good" ending was the only one available, I'd have felt somehow cheated, because it just didn't seem a likely ending to me.
However, downer endings shouldn't be thought of as "Bad" Endings. When I played Silent Hill 2 the first time, I got the "Really Bad Ending." I replayed the game in order to get the other endings, and found myself realizing that the more darker endings were more believable. If the "Good" ending was the only one available, I'd have felt somehow cheated, because it just didn't seem a likely ending to me.
While the idea of a 'bad' ending in games is only very rarely a good idea, I still think it could be implimented better than it has so far. The two biggest mistakes that game designers seem to keep persistently making are one or both of the following:
The 'bad' ending is brought about by a sudden abrupt plot twist at the end of the game, usually never before hinted at through the course of the game. This makes the player feel like a fool.
The 'bad' ending causes or proves everything the player has done through the course of the game to be entirely pointless. This makes the player feel like they've wasted their time.
A 'Bad' ending would not seem like such a raw deal if the ending didn't fall into one of these two pitfalls. If it fits in the plot and narrative of a game, I would personally much rather see a logical bad ending than a tacked-on feel-good finish.
The 'bad' ending is brought about by a sudden abrupt plot twist at the end of the game, usually never before hinted at through the course of the game. This makes the player feel like a fool.
The 'bad' ending causes or proves everything the player has done through the course of the game to be entirely pointless. This makes the player feel like they've wasted their time.
A 'Bad' ending would not seem like such a raw deal if the ending didn't fall into one of these two pitfalls. If it fits in the plot and narrative of a game, I would personally much rather see a logical bad ending than a tacked-on feel-good finish.
How about Kane and Lynch?
How's that for a downer ending?
There are two endings, giving you the aptly-titled achievements "Damned if You Do" and "Damned if You Don't." In one, you choose to save your partner, but your daughter dies. In the other, you leave your partner to die, and your daughter ends up hating you for being a coward, leaving you in the same place where the game started.
Braid's story is about as deep as the Mario games that it is so clearly inspired by, without the endearing weirdness of course. For me the ending had about as much effect as discovering that Kohl is a fairly common black crystalline substance used in ancient times for cosmetics as well as a chain of clothing stores.BigBoote66 said:
Irridium said:
Even if he was dying from horrible internal injury he would use every ounce of his superhuman strength to try and live to fight another day. Besides Master Chief going from a barely human killing machine who would charge into hell without a second thought to complete his mission to weepy dying soldier would be, for lack of a better word, incredibly lame. I seriously got shivers when I heard him say "Wake me when you need me," like he is nothing more than a not currently useful weapon being placed in storage. If you ask me the fact that he gets to continue his life after being subjected the one of the most brutal military careers in history for the past 35 years is tragic enough.
So trueAnkhwatcher said:
If the game is building to a sad ending, like Okami did, then I really like it. The only thing is, Okami ends happily. Stupidly. In all sense, it should have ended sadly in all respects. But no. They must be saved by the magical inexplicable orbs.
So, since it is established that there are actually enough downer endings, here are some thoughts about that whole thing.
Downer Endings can be satisfying, as long as you get a sense of accomplishment and as long as it isn't forced upon you (That's why Fallout 3 doesn't work, there would be a way around it the ending that you have to play)
Thats why downer endings in wich your chraracter just dies Aeon Flux Style suck, especially if you die in a way that you would solve by a simple reload. If your character dies, it has to be "worth" it, either because he sacrifices himself heroically (or at least for something that makes sense), or stands against impossible odds in a no-win situation.
But i consider it to be the best thing if a downer ending still lets you reach your goal, but it comes with a high, tragic price.
I don't understand who would criticize the ending of GTA IV, because i consider it the best thing of the game. It's a perfect inversion of the usual Game Ending: You defeated your enemies and gained peace, but there is no happiness, no fanfare at the end, because it just was not worth it. The hunger for revenge is satisfied, but the grief that led to that still remains. Really a great ending.
Downer Endings can be satisfying, as long as you get a sense of accomplishment and as long as it isn't forced upon you (That's why Fallout 3 doesn't work, there would be a way around it the ending that you have to play)
Thats why downer endings in wich your chraracter just dies Aeon Flux Style suck, especially if you die in a way that you would solve by a simple reload. If your character dies, it has to be "worth" it, either because he sacrifices himself heroically (or at least for something that makes sense), or stands against impossible odds in a no-win situation.
But i consider it to be the best thing if a downer ending still lets you reach your goal, but it comes with a high, tragic price.
I don't understand who would criticize the ending of GTA IV, because i consider it the best thing of the game. It's a perfect inversion of the usual Game Ending: You defeated your enemies and gained peace, but there is no happiness, no fanfare at the end, because it just was not worth it. The hunger for revenge is satisfied, but the grief that led to that still remains. Really a great ending.
A downer ending thats forced on the player in a RPG makes very little sense, since the personality of the character should be a reflection of what the player wants. So a self-sacrificing altruistic ending makes no sense if you've been playing the game as an individualist or even an evil character.
For a normal game with a single linear story, a sad ending can make sense, but only if it is done well. And even then some choice in the matter is ideal. A choice between 2 different downer endings is better than none. GTA4 and Farcry 2 being examples of this. I had no problem with their endings, and found them fitting.
Planescape: Torment had an awesome ending, as long as you either had a high Wisdom score (24+ if I recall correctly) or found a certain weapon in certain inaccessible tower. This ending was still sad in a way, but it provides a sense of closure, but your experience of it will depend on how much you've managed to gleam from the story by talking to characters in the game. This game truly did not spoon-feed its story to players. You had to work for it, piece by puzzle piece and figure the majority of plot out yourself. They (the horrible they, them, the man) will never make another game like Torment.
For a normal game with a single linear story, a sad ending can make sense, but only if it is done well. And even then some choice in the matter is ideal. A choice between 2 different downer endings is better than none. GTA4 and Farcry 2 being examples of this. I had no problem with their endings, and found them fitting.
Planescape: Torment had an awesome ending, as long as you either had a high Wisdom score (24+ if I recall correctly) or found a certain weapon in certain inaccessible tower. This ending was still sad in a way, but it provides a sense of closure, but your experience of it will depend on how much you've managed to gleam from the story by talking to characters in the game. This game truly did not spoon-feed its story to players. You had to work for it, piece by puzzle piece and figure the majority of plot out yourself. They (the horrible they, them, the man) will never make another game like Torment.
Unreal 1 and Unreal 2.
Left 4 Dead leaves plenty opportunity for bad endings: You get left behind while the others escape(which I actually like the most of all the bad endings), or one of the others are left behind, or you end up being the only survivor(insert final scene of Predator here). The worst, and I still shudder if it happens again, is in the No Mercy Final, during a tank attack, and Zoe gets thwacked over the edge of the building. Her scream on the way down is way way way [small] way way way[/small] way too convincing(Which I guess is credit to the voice actress). To me that has more effect than a survivor just getting trampled by a zombie rush.
1 having more impact since the fight to escape was real, you never really knew what you were up against, but was determined to make it, and you did, only to end up worse off, stuck in space (this is discounting Return to NaPali since that is third party)
2 inspires different feelings, as you discover that all the missions you went on, the grief you endured, was a farce and did no good for the world. You not only lose your friends, but you also end up lost in space. Think these are good examples of endings that don't need repeating again too soon.
2 inspires different feelings, as you discover that all the missions you went on, the grief you endured, was a farce and did no good for the world. You not only lose your friends, but you also end up lost in space. Think these are good examples of endings that don't need repeating again too soon.
STALKER: Shadow's of Chernobyl comes to mind (the Wishgranter endings)
STALKER: Clear Sky, too, if I remember.
COD4
Half-Life 2: Episode 2: I almost cried.
STALKER: Clear Sky, too, if I remember.
COD4
Half-Life 2: Episode 2: I almost cried.
