I had to point out that both FFX and FF7: Crisis Core both had horribly downer endings not really wasting hours of your life for something that was pointless but showing that even when you succeed there is a price to pay for it. (Before anyone says anything I will never consider FFX2 as part of the FF series as long as I may live)
When Endings Go Bad
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I really like the "downer endings" on linear games, because they make the game have much more closure when the main character gets his head chopped off or a bullet through the brain. However if its an rpg like fallout 3 where you should be able to continue on it pisses me right the fuck off.
While there's definitely a bias towards happy endings in computer games, there are plenty of bad ones.
How about Flood, where at the end of 42 levels you finally make it to the surface!... and get run over by a car? Or the original Contra arcade where you end up shooting the final bad guy... and the world explodes?
Or the umpteen thousand times we see a game over screen? Don't all those unhappy endings count?
How about Flood, where at the end of 42 levels you finally make it to the surface!... and get run over by a car? Or the original Contra arcade where you end up shooting the final bad guy... and the world explodes?
Or the umpteen thousand times we see a game over screen? Don't all those unhappy endings count?
A lot of people judge games (like movies) based on the ending.
I know a lot of people that will have great fun playing a game then get bummed out by the final cutscene and declare the entire game is shit and not worth playing.
They will then avoid any sequel and be wary of the developer's other projects.
I like bad endings.....that is to say when apropriate.
But I realise I am part of a minority in thinking so.
I hate too see a good story go to hell in th final stretch to accomodate the majority by messing up the ending but bussines is bussines I guess.
I know a lot of people that will have great fun playing a game then get bummed out by the final cutscene and declare the entire game is shit and not worth playing.
They will then avoid any sequel and be wary of the developer's other projects.
I like bad endings.....that is to say when apropriate.
But I realise I am part of a minority in thinking so.
I hate too see a good story go to hell in th final stretch to accomodate the majority by messing up the ending but bussines is bussines I guess.
I love that game, even with its bugs and flaws. Its a crying shame the developers went bankrupt before release, and we'll most likely never see a return to that storyline/universeMalygris said:
At least, outside of possible indies.Also, in Deus Ex 2, there where 2 'downer' ending...
The Omar ending, where the planet has been rendered a lifeless rock aside from the Omar, and the Templar ending, where all mutants, nano-augmented people, and genetic experiments (the Grey aliens) are mass lynched.
As far as I'm concerned the Omar ending was the only good ending in Deus Ex 2. The so-called happy ending with everyone equal and connected and crap is the absolute opposite of what I personally would want to happen. Obviously the developers were communists.
Well it might be because of this good vs evil game obsession, we usually follow the hero and imagine we are the hero, maybe adding moral ambiguity or making the villain more interesting may address this, I usually like a cliffhanger or suspense ending whether good or bad, hope I didn't sound pretentious, sorry if I did
But see, if they do follow the status quo, they have to compete with the big boys. Some unknown could bring out a quality product, but he's in direct competition with Calvin Klein, so he's probably going to lose.canadamus_prime said:
I guess for most sad endings are fine, just not ones that make the gamer feel like he's been robbed. I'm personally fine with them.
I know Fahrenheit had multiple endings, but I don't remember getting one that ended on a low note, but considering the way that game panned out, I would assume there was one or two.
There's an old Infocom game called Infidel that very much ends on a sour note, and I remember being very shocked and more than a little angry at it at the time.
I think the compromise is having multiple endings. You get the happy, Hollywood ending if you make the right choices, and the soul-rending one if you don't. And by "right choices," I don't mean obscure things like "used X number of healing items," I mean story-based decisions.
I think the compromise is having multiple endings. You get the happy, Hollywood ending if you make the right choices, and the soul-rending one if you don't. And by "right choices," I don't mean obscure things like "used X number of healing items," I mean story-based decisions.
Halo series anyone?
Braid isn't exactly happy either.
Advent Rising is a BIG uncertain cliffhanger (there'll probably never be another game).
Braid isn't exactly happy either.
Advent Rising is a BIG uncertain cliffhanger (there'll probably never be another game).
With one game staying on the headlines of Escapist for the whole week, I'm surprised none mentioned.
Star Craft: Brood War has intriguing story that involves you in the world and it's characters. You are guided through missions to save lives, fight for freedom, survival and friendship. But at final chapter you are set to aid the queen ***** of the universe. You end up betraying and killing your friends. Slaugther everyone on your way and stay undisputed to dominate the universe. The few remaining good heroes end up crushed without hope. The path ahead is only darkness and death and out there still lurks unnamed evil.
And yet it was an epic story and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Star Craft: Brood War has intriguing story that involves you in the world and it's characters. You are guided through missions to save lives, fight for freedom, survival and friendship. But at final chapter you are set to aid the queen ***** of the universe. You end up betraying and killing your friends. Slaugther everyone on your way and stay undisputed to dominate the universe. The few remaining good heroes end up crushed without hope. The path ahead is only darkness and death and out there still lurks unnamed evil.
And yet it was an epic story and I wouldn't have it any other way.
I can't say that I agree with your opinion of Episode 2 not being a true sour ending. I understand what you're saying about how it's only the end of the second act, and there's still room for real closure in Episode 3, and I do understand what you mean about it being a "compromise at best", but I don't think that should make it count less. It's still the ending of a game (a game which, by all standards, has a better story than most games out these days, a more polished design, a more amazing delivery of story, more entertaining gameplay, and a respectable length for what is effectively a third of a game), an ending which is suitably emotional and touching to the player.Malygris said:
You mentioned that Eli's death did not really effect the outcome of the game, or even the continuation of it. Perhaps that is true: on a grand scale, it does not effect anything that is happening with the Combine and the bid to get them out of this dimension. Even that is questionable, though, as we really don't know exactly how much research was dependent on Eli. We know that their advances used his research, just not to what extent. Perhaps with him dead, Kleiner, Magnusson and the rest won't be able to advance as quickly as before, which makes the true ending that much less clear. But the real reason his death is so emotional doesn't have anything to do with plot. It has to do with character development.
Shortly before his death, we find out that Eli made a deal with the devil, so to speak, and knows about the existence of the G-Man. As far as we (as Gordon Freeman) know thus far, he is the only other person still present in this timeline that knows of the G-Man. This is a huge point of development, both for Eli's character and for Gordon Freeman. Gordon has finally learned of someone else who knows of the existence of his would-be puppet-master, and comes that much closer to finding a way to rebel against said antagonist; perhaps by banding together, Eli and Gordon could find a way to overcome the G-Man, and finally cut the strings and escape from his controlling grasp. When Eli dies, this entire path of thought is cut off, and leaves Gordon (and you, effectively) back where you began, still at the beck-and-call of the G-Man.
Eli's death doesn't just effect you, however. You mentioned that Eli's death doesn't have the same effect as if it had been Barney or Kleiner. Perhaps that is true, but have you thought about how those characters will change in the next installment? With their leader having been killed, the entire resistance will be thrown into an upheaval.
Of course, the greatest effect this is going to have is on Alyx, your constant ally and partner through the entire game. What made the character of Alyx so appealing was that she was always so upbeat; she always managed to shine some light into the darkest parts of the game, and it always made you feel like you weren't alone in this hostile world. How do you think that relationship is going to develop now that her father has been killed (in front of her eyes, no less)? She won't be the same go-lucky person she was before: she's most likely going to become jaded, or perhaps worse.
Throughout the entire Half-Life 2 franchise, we have invested a massive amount of time into Alyx, which is why the ending of Episode 2 is so touching and emotional: it's not necessarily because we are feeling sad that Eli died, it's because we are vicariously feeling the pain through Alyx, and are seeing how much she has been affected by her fathers death. And, honestly, it's one of the saddest endings that I've ever encountered in a game specifically because we see a much more personal moment than "The world has ended". Sure, that one has a depressing feel overall, but it's the personal moments that are truly touching.
Shortly before his death, we find out that Eli made a deal with the devil, so to speak, and knows about the existence of the G-Man. As far as we (as Gordon Freeman) know thus far, he is the only other person still present in this timeline that knows of the G-Man. This is a huge point of development, both for Eli's character and for Gordon Freeman. Gordon has finally learned of someone else who knows of the existence of his would-be puppet-master, and comes that much closer to finding a way to rebel against said antagonist; perhaps by banding together, Eli and Gordon could find a way to overcome the G-Man, and finally cut the strings and escape from his controlling grasp. When Eli dies, this entire path of thought is cut off, and leaves Gordon (and you, effectively) back where you began, still at the beck-and-call of the G-Man.
Eli's death doesn't just effect you, however. You mentioned that Eli's death doesn't have the same effect as if it had been Barney or Kleiner. Perhaps that is true, but have you thought about how those characters will change in the next installment? With their leader having been killed, the entire resistance will be thrown into an upheaval.
Of course, the greatest effect this is going to have is on Alyx, your constant ally and partner through the entire game. What made the character of Alyx so appealing was that she was always so upbeat; she always managed to shine some light into the darkest parts of the game, and it always made you feel like you weren't alone in this hostile world. How do you think that relationship is going to develop now that her father has been killed (in front of her eyes, no less)? She won't be the same go-lucky person she was before: she's most likely going to become jaded, or perhaps worse.
Throughout the entire Half-Life 2 franchise, we have invested a massive amount of time into Alyx, which is why the ending of Episode 2 is so touching and emotional: it's not necessarily because we are feeling sad that Eli died, it's because we are vicariously feeling the pain through Alyx, and are seeing how much she has been affected by her fathers death. And, honestly, it's one of the saddest endings that I've ever encountered in a game specifically because we see a much more personal moment than "The world has ended". Sure, that one has a depressing feel overall, but it's the personal moments that are truly touching.
Man, I can be really long-winded sometimes.
All in all, I thoroughly enjoy a sad ending. Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favorite games of all time, and it has a truly beautiful, depressing and hopeless ending that really speaks to me on multiple levels. I'm kind of sad that games don't take more risks in storytelling, because I thoroughly enjoy a game with a good twist ending, especially one that hits hard and is thought-provoking, or at least is touching emotionally.
To be honest, I find the multiple ending thing to be a bit of a cop-out. I mean, don't get me wrong; I understand the necessity of them and the practical application of them, and I love a good RPG with morality systems and plot-changing decisions as much as the next person. But I think the best games are ones that give you a solid ending no matter what your decisions were. Of course, perhaps this is just the side of me that is craving a game with a depressing, hopeless story from the get-go. I must admit, I'm rather excited for games like Dragon Age: Origins and Heavy Rain that are going to flip the story-telling component on its head and show us how it should be done.Susan Arendt said:
