When the argument 'Videogames are Art' comes up...
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I don't really see that as the case. Most of the examples people are listing here incorporate gameplay into the "art" of the work just as much as the cut-scenes, music, etc. Could you give some examples of "artistic" games that are actually nothing more than the game equivalent of "famous paintings set to classical music"?Veylon said:
to all the people who said 'Portal',
could you say what exactly in the game is ART?
No offence to the game ofc, I'm a huge fan, like all of you, but the game is using a 2002 engine with almost nothing modified, it doesn't have some EPIC graphics, it doesn't even have peope in it, except your character which you all know how to see her and she's quite low-poly.
I just don't see the 'art' in portal. It's cubes and planes moving. Some tubes too. Wow.
could you say what exactly in the game is ART?
No offence to the game ofc, I'm a huge fan, like all of you, but the game is using a 2002 engine with almost nothing modified, it doesn't have some EPIC graphics, it doesn't even have peope in it, except your character which you all know how to see her and she's quite low-poly.
I just don't see the 'art' in portal. It's cubes and planes moving. Some tubes too. Wow.
Are you talking art like visually appealing, or art like something made out of passion for the medium and to inspire people?
Though there aren't any that are literally at that level (thankfully), Xenosaga comes close and the Final Fantasy series is walking briskly in that direction. Then there's The Path, which is about a step away.boholikeu said:
I am glad to see people posting games like Portal, though. That one centers around a game mechanic. I'd rather push art to include games than push games to be art, if you see what I mean. The importance is for games to be themselves and not merely imitate another medium.
It depens of what you see as art. I have a few rules for myself.
1. It doesn't ( neccesary ) need to be practical.
2. it can make you laught : conkers bad fur day.
3. It can make you think : i don't know an example, but i am sure there are a lot. Not considering puzzle games.
4. It can make you cry or care about something : I could only thing about my character in fire emblem.
5. It can be really enjoyable : most of the good games.
And persenolly i think fashion isn't a art.
1. It doesn't ( neccesary ) need to be practical.
2. it can make you laught : conkers bad fur day.
3. It can make you think : i don't know an example, but i am sure there are a lot. Not considering puzzle games.
4. It can make you cry or care about something : I could only thing about my character in fire emblem.
5. It can be really enjoyable : most of the good games.
And persenolly i think fashion isn't a art.
i can be wrong with this, but i think some people have a wrong idea about what is the art part in game. its not the visual aspect, but more the..... well let just say everything. art is more the 'idea' behind it and what the viewer (gamer) thinks about it.
lets have as school example: shadow of the collosus. why is this game considerd as art? not really of the visuals. ok the collosie looked cool, but the world was pretty empty and dull. but that is the reason why the game is art: you had the feeling that you were at a mythical place and with the collosie you had the feeling you were some ancient huuuge creature who probably had been there for thousands years. the feeling that the game gave make it a piece of art. not the visuals. yeah the visuals are a important aspect, but they do not make the game art on there own.
my idea of a game i consider art is the proffessor layton serie on the DS. every character was so different and intresting, and the presentation was amazing. on the end of part 3 it gets really emotional and its hard not to cry with it.
but the problem with this disscusion is the same problem with painted art: what is considerd art? games like red dead and halo i don't see as art. but is see that ome people do.
lets have as school example: shadow of the collosus. why is this game considerd as art? not really of the visuals. ok the collosie looked cool, but the world was pretty empty and dull. but that is the reason why the game is art: you had the feeling that you were at a mythical place and with the collosie you had the feeling you were some ancient huuuge creature who probably had been there for thousands years. the feeling that the game gave make it a piece of art. not the visuals. yeah the visuals are a important aspect, but they do not make the game art on there own.
my idea of a game i consider art is the proffessor layton serie on the DS. every character was so different and intresting, and the presentation was amazing. on the end of part 3 it gets really emotional and its hard not to cry with it.
but the problem with this disscusion is the same problem with painted art: what is considerd art? games like red dead and halo i don't see as art. but is see that ome people do.
Well games don't have to have good graphics to be art, in the terms people are using.Rouse said:
Most often when this argument comes up people chose games that look like art rather than games that are art. Portal's minimalisim and monochromatic colour scheme resembles modern art pieces. Ico and Okami agian, look like art. That doesn't make them art though.
Am I really the only one that views Bioshock 2 as an art? I understand how the plot really didn't make sense in compilation with the first, because Lamb was not in the first or even mentioned at all, but really? The ending in Bioshock 2 was quite honestly, one of the most touching endings I have ever experienced in a video game (one of, not the most so don't hate).
SPOILER ALERT GOIN UP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46DVcUNREZk
^watch the beginning cutscene, the music is fantastic and watching your big daddy, broken and beaten, crawling along the hull of the submarine is amazing. After that, skip to 4:48 and watch that ending, it is simply gorgeous.
SPOILER ALERT GOIN UP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46DVcUNREZk
^watch the beginning cutscene, the music is fantastic and watching your big daddy, broken and beaten, crawling along the hull of the submarine is amazing. After that, skip to 4:48 and watch that ending, it is simply gorgeous.
Isn't the main point of art expression? So I judge it by how much I feel from the game. If it comes off as shallow and cheesy. Well, that's the difference between being just entertainment and art.
So here is my list.
Final Fantasy(the series as a whole).
Bioshock.
Shadow of the Colossus.
Assassins Creed.
Scott Pilgram vs The World.
Call of Duty
Halo
and many many many more.
I am not taking graphics into account on any of these. It's all based on the degree of feeling, of experience, of awe these games instilled in me whilst playing them.
So here is my list.
Final Fantasy(the series as a whole).
Bioshock.
Shadow of the Colossus.
Assassins Creed.
Scott Pilgram vs The World.
Call of Duty
Halo
and many many many more.
I am not taking graphics into account on any of these. It's all based on the degree of feeling, of experience, of awe these games instilled in me whilst playing them.
If we wanna talk about the really good shit, I'd have to go with the obscure Enix game Terranigma on the SNES, Final Fantasy VIII on the Playstation, Legacy of Kain: Defiance for the PS2, and Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots on the PS3. These games all combine story and gameplay to create unparalleled experiences.
I agree with you about Xenosaga and FF, but thankfully people don't often bring those up in "games as art" debates.Veylon said:
I disagree with you about The Path though. Most of the "art" in that game is actually how the developer uses interactivity to make their point. Some people see the abstract poetry/cutscenes in the game and assume that what people are referring to when they talk about the game being artistic, but really those elements are only a small part of the game's entire message.