When will consoles embrace modding?

[Madara XIII]

"When will consoles embrace modding?"

In the eyes of the Big Three, "Never." Or if they do, "In an environment that we legally own and control."
The whole reason they shunted most of the mainstream gaming market onto consoles over the last 10 years was strongly BECAUSE you can't mod the game.
There would be much less of a DLC market if you could mod the game yourself. Mods are, in a way the original DLC.

Giving any control of development to the customer threatens the job security of those who own and develop for that system. That threatens profits, and we can't have that.
Even Blizzard with their Starcraft 2 Map Editor comes with so many outrageous (and borderline illegal) stipulations. They own anything you create with it, and you can ONLY those maps with their Bnet 2 service.

But PC games are so God Damn superior its not a joke, they do everything better. Everything.

See there? That attitude right FREAKING THERE. It's disgusting and what really drives me batshit insane. It's as if all PC gamers believe that a console gamer is nothing more than a knuckle dragging neanderthal who can only get his entertainment from AAA games.

Not directed at me, but I'll comment anyway.
GAMES are not the same as the GAMERS who play them.

PCs, are unquestionably technologically superior because Consoles are nothing MORE THAN ANOTHER FORM OF COMPUTER. They are a collection of electronics and mathematical logic processors that can play video games.

This is NOT arrogance or an opinion. It's a certifiable fact.

From a strictly technical level, there is not one thing that a console can do that PCs can't do. They are popular because they are easy to use and uniform in design. They are also strictly proprietary. Because of those traits, they are easy to control and market for.

It's not the facts that piss me off. It's the attitude about it. I understand that a PC can do so much more. Hell I mean a PC is what makes games. But my issue is the attitude about it all. It's as if they constantly have to rub it in our faces and just brings about a sense of elitism that is all but pleasant.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Not to dash all hopes but, modding communities have ALWAYS been in the minority and pretty drastically at that. The "casual" side to Consoles takes up FAR more of the earnings then those devoted to the hobby and even among does devotees, there is only a small number with any desire to explore a games engine for themselves.

Aside from games that exclusively advertise modding, I don't see "Skyrim on 360" getting Nude Mods any time soon... not with Microsoft forcing their puritan regime upon the gamers.

(also, if they did divulge modders, they would charge you for everything you make... likely)

 

[Racecarlock]

Ya know what? This really irks me.

I'm getting really pissed about all these PC gamers sticking their noses up in the air and looking down on the Console gamers as if they're some sort of primitive form of life.

Just because we don't have Mods doesn't make PC games any better than Console games. They both have their strong points.

And if I get suspended for speaking my mind out about this (While not being vulgar) well so be it.
Tired of PC gamers acting like they're so GOD DAMN superior. It's awful!!

But PC games are so God Damn superior its not a joke, they do everything better. Everything.

Guys, I think you forgot what humor is. He was clearly joking. How did you miss that? Seriously.

 

[mireko]

Probably going to be quite a while, if ever. The problem (one of them, anyway) is that the mods would still have to be made on a computer and transferred to the console. Then there'd need to be some way of including the content in the game, which would either require lots of extra work on the dev team's part or have the games completely install to the console (and have the OS be more open).

And then there's the fact that so many devs are cutting those possibilities out on the PC and completely refusing to offer any tools to the modding community [small](seriously BioWare, why the fuck wouldn't you want people to mod DA2?)[/small]. You can still mod, it's just that it makes it less convenient and all people end up making is minor, cosmetic stuff.

Don't see that changing, at least not in this console generation.

 

[CrystalShadow]

The thing is, if you've actually ever tried to mod a PC game, you'll note how incredibly technical it generally is.

And, it usually requires the ability to dig quite deep into the game files. Something which is a standard ability on a PC, but which consoles go out of their way to prevent you doing.

You might think games can have built-in tools right?

Well, yeah. For really simple stuff.

But pretty much all the really impressive mods found in PC games are built using a hell of a lot more than just the modding tools a game provides.

Want a new game map? OK, that's a dedicated map editor related to the game.

How about tweaking weapon stats? Well, you'd need access to the config scripts, then you'd need a system implemented to stop abuse in multiplayer...

And you'd need some kind of text editor. Oh, and you'd better be sure the game doesn't crash if you edit something incorrectly. (Happens all the time on PC, but you just reload the game when that happens.)

But OK, now you want to create a new texture or skin for something...

Suddenly consoles need heavy-duty image editing software.

New meshes? - Huh. Now we need a 3d modeling program.
Animation? - Make that a 3d modelling program with extensive support for animating objects.

Sound? - Did we mention you'll need some way to edit sounds? Or at least load them from somewhere...

How about editing the graphical effects? - Oh dear suddenly we need a shader editor and compiler...


Look, the modding tools any given PC game provides are only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the tools you actually need to create all but the most trivial of content for a game.

Unless you expect console or game makers to try and recreate all of these other tools on consoles, what will happen is either:

-Console modding will be extremely limited in scope.
-Console modding will involve importing stuff created on a PC. (So, if you want to make mods, you'll need a PC as well as your console.)
-Console modding will have the bulk of the tools provided that you might be able to install on a PC. But, chances are slime these tools will be on par with what's typically used on PC, making complex modding incredibly difficult for all but the most determined of people.

Oh, and the debugging or limitations needed to keep games stable with mods that are 'in progress' will mean consoles start to need at least some debugging tools enabled even on retail consoles.

(And for the record, Console dev kits tend to have about twice the RAM as standard consoles, as well as a lot of features designed to simplify debugging a game, and, usually the ability to read game data from media that the final console cannot. - Although not all of that is needed for modding.)


Consoles just aren't suitable for creating all but the most trivial mods.

Sorry, but the ability to plug in a mouse and keyboard is the least or your problems in trying to create mods on a console.

There's other things a PC has which a console does not which can't really be replicated that easily. A lot of software tools that would have to be built from scratch (which game developers don't need to provide on PC because they already exist)... Architectural changes to how a console runs games... Access to the guts of a game in ways developers of consoles would probably rather not let you do...

It just doesn't seem all that plausible to create mods on a console.

Running mods, sure. But not creating them on the console itself.

 

[4RM3D]

Consoles and mods are like fire and water based on how the consoles are being marketed.
And then there are the practical issues and limitations. Nay, mods should stay on the PC.

 

[Canid117]

When you dont get permabanned for it.

 

[Risingblade]

Mods would mess up our consoles?

 

[Madara XIII]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Winning is fun, provided it's also fair and the actual gameplay is fun and works.

That said, as a console gamer I must tell you to stop generalizing, damn it. We aren't all like that. I'd like to see mods available on the 360 and PS3 as well, but I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, Bethesda is really pushing getting mods on Skyrim. They're trying to get Sony and MS to let them do it. I hope they do, too, I think it would be pretty awesome.

Thank you. A prime example of Modding would be thing such as Custom Maps in Halo or Creating your own Levels in LBP. You can rig it to your personal preference of difficulty and add other features that can completely change the flow of gameplay.
Either way it's just the attitudes towards console gamers that proves to be well unpleasant

 

[PettingZOOPONY]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Winning is fun, provided it's also fair and the actual gameplay is fun and works.

That said, as a console gamer I must tell you to stop generalizing, damn it. We aren't all like that. I'd like to see mods available on the 360 and PS3 as well, but I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, Bethesda is really pushing getting mods on Skyrim. They're trying to get Sony and MS to let them do it. I hope they do, too, I think it would be pretty awesome.

Thank you. A prime example of Modding would be thing such as Custom Maps in Halo or Creating your own Levels in LBP. You can rig it to your personal preference of difficulty and add other features that can completely change the flow of gameplay.
Either way it's just the attitudes towards console gamers that proves to be well unpleasant

But as a player you have the choice of not playing that mod. I understand as a console player your not use to having a choice in anything but thats the great thing about mods, if you don't like it you don't have to use or play it!

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

But by in large the big three seem scared stiff at the idea of a comprehensive level editor, the sort of thing you find with Half Life 2 or Oblivion.

PC style modding may never come to consoles because, to be blunt about it, console manufacturers are control freaks and mod communities are the opposite of content control. Map editors and 'construction sets' might become more common but that'll probably be the limit of it.

What's not going to happen are the more in-depth mods that result from someone getting up to their elbows in a game's code... because you can't do that on a standard console. Nor will there be the ability to mod games that don't have official tools.

 

[omega_peaches]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Doesn't mean we're not having fun. Sometimes people like challenges and restrictions. You can only sandbox so much till you get tired of it.

Never, think of all the money game devs would lose by not getting payed from DLC as much, it is probably worth it to them enough to pay microsoft and sony to exclude future modding options on future consoles as well, hope you have fun on those consoles of yours

WTF is that supposed to mean? Jesus Christ is every PC gamer trying to be pretentious about this issue?

Big whoop we don't MOD. Maybe because we like it that way and prefer challenges at times? Also there's still the existence of cheatcodes.

Honestly I'd prefer the exclusion of Modding from consoles. It runs the risk of making the game a bit clunky at times

What the hell are you talking about? Modding is not cheating and has never been about it, it comes from non informed gamers that modding is cheating.

Well couldn't you technically Mod your console so you can cheat.
I'm not sure, but I think that's modding.

 

[PettingZOOPONY]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Doesn't mean we're not having fun. Sometimes people like challenges and restrictions. You can only sandbox so much till you get tired of it.

Never, think of all the money game devs would lose by not getting payed from DLC as much, it is probably worth it to them enough to pay microsoft and sony to exclude future modding options on future consoles as well, hope you have fun on those consoles of yours

WTF is that supposed to mean? Jesus Christ is every PC gamer trying to be pretentious about this issue?

Big whoop we don't MOD. Maybe because we like it that way and prefer challenges at times? Also there's still the existence of cheatcodes.

Honestly I'd prefer the exclusion of Modding from consoles. It runs the risk of making the game a bit clunky at times

What the hell are you talking about? Modding is not cheating and has never been about it, it comes from non informed gamers that modding is cheating.

Well couldn't you technically Mod your console so you can cheat.
I'm not sure, but I think that's modding.

That's a Hardware mod, has about as much to do with game modding as modding your car does.

 

[omega_peaches]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Doesn't mean we're not having fun. Sometimes people like challenges and restrictions. You can only sandbox so much till you get tired of it.

Never, think of all the money game devs would lose by not getting payed from DLC as much, it is probably worth it to them enough to pay microsoft and sony to exclude future modding options on future consoles as well, hope you have fun on those consoles of yours

WTF is that supposed to mean? Jesus Christ is every PC gamer trying to be pretentious about this issue?

Big whoop we don't MOD. Maybe because we like it that way and prefer challenges at times? Also there's still the existence of cheatcodes.

Honestly I'd prefer the exclusion of Modding from consoles. It runs the risk of making the game a bit clunky at times

What the hell are you talking about? Modding is not cheating and has never been about it, it comes from non informed gamers that modding is cheating.

Well couldn't you technically Mod your console so you can cheat.
I'm not sure, but I think that's modding.

That's a Hardware mod, has about as much to do with game modding as modding your car does.

Oh, my bad.
I'm not too familiar with all this modding stuff.

 

[crop52]

Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion.

What a terrible opinion you have.

OT: There's no reason to mod on consoles. Getting mods for your games on your consoles, on the other hand, should already be happening. It's just that we need to be able to access mod nexuses, and then be able to install the mods.

 

[Merkavar]

i thought the whole point of consoles was simplicity. you insert disc and play. modding games and downloading custom map packs seems beyond console gamers.

if you want modding why not just get a pc?

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Winning is fun, provided it's also fair and the actual gameplay is fun and works.

That said, as a console gamer I must tell you to stop generalizing, damn it. We aren't all like that. I'd like to see mods available on the 360 and PS3 as well, but I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, Bethesda is really pushing getting mods on Skyrim. They're trying to get Sony and MS to let them do it. I hope they do, too, I think it would be pretty awesome.

Believe me, I wasn't trying to categorize everyone who plays on consoles. Let me re-phrase what I said: When people play competitively, they usually don't have a lot of fun. Again, don't mistake that for a generalization. As for remaining on topic, I would like to see modding introduced to gaming that goes beyond editing a map. In theory, this might actually reduce the amount of people trying to cheat in ranked multiplayer, because they already have their tools to dick around with.

 

[Deef]

You know the only thing you are doing is proving how insecure you really are about your platform of choice. Besides that people like you are everything that is wrong with gaming today. If I had my choice I would hit every single prick like you in the head with a shovel.

... The man states what some believe to be an opinion and others would call an objective fact, and you proceed to call him insecure, followed by expressing a desire to seriously injure everyone like him.

How does that add up?

The man stated an opionion that just seethes with extremely elitest behavior. People who think that they are better then somebody else or that their choice of gaming platform is superior to anothers are to put it bluntly complete and total idiots. To be so arrogant to honestly think that your personal choices of entertainment are somehow superior to anothers is just insane. PC games are not superior in any way what so ever to consoles game and vise versa.

I feel that anybody who says something like PC games or gaming is superior is only being said because they are insecure about their own gaming choices and are looking for a reason to justify them.

As for my desire to hurt him I feel that all of this hate between PC and console gamers is destroying the gaming industry.

As a long-time console gamer, and a long-time PC gamer, I'm forced to conclude that PC gaming is, in my opinion, better. A great deal more flexibility, better general performance, better prices. I'm not saying consoles are bad here, I'm just saying that PCs are better.

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion.

What a terrible opinion you have.

Trust me, when you hear people yelling at a game the way I've heard them, it's hard to imagine them trying to have fun.

 

[Madara XIII]

I think the main reason modding won't be embraced by consoles is the negative connotation of the word. As we all know, modding implies cheating. Console gamers are more focused towards winning, rather than having fun, in my opinion. It's a little sad. I think map editing is the closest thing we'll be seeing for a while.

Winning is fun, provided it's also fair and the actual gameplay is fun and works.

That said, as a console gamer I must tell you to stop generalizing, damn it. We aren't all like that. I'd like to see mods available on the 360 and PS3 as well, but I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, Bethesda is really pushing getting mods on Skyrim. They're trying to get Sony and MS to let them do it. I hope they do, too, I think it would be pretty awesome.

Thank you. A prime example of Modding would be thing such as Custom Maps in Halo or Creating your own Levels in LBP. You can rig it to your personal preference of difficulty and add other features that can completely change the flow of gameplay.
Either way it's just the attitudes towards console gamers that proves to be well unpleasant

But as a player you have the choice of not playing that mod. I understand as a console player your not use to having a choice in anything but thats the great thing about mods, if you don't like it you don't have to use or play it!

And I'm willing to accept the option of being able to either use or not to use it. If they do it they do it. Simple as that, but no need to go about with a rotten attitude if we don't Mod