When will we see a NON-attractive woman in a video-game?

[axlryder]

Completely average is more like "okay looking".

Which is exactly how I see Alyx.

A huge problem with this topic is beauty is quite a personal preference, hair was just an example of taste and my view of what the wider perception sees as beautiful is completely anecdotal. I've certainly not hung around people who draw and study faces for beauty, most of my talk about beauty comes from more of a tits and ass perspective.

As I said earlier, of course personal preference is subjective, which is exactly why I specifically noted that her facial features fall more closely in line with prototypical beauty than what the average person might possess. She has good bone structure, full lips, a petite nose, and no overly glaring facial flaws or asymmetry (though some). How pretty her eyes are is the most subjective aspect of her core face, and they certainly aren't ugly looking.

Hair is actually one of the most subjective aspects of beauty, but it's also one of the most easily changed, so overall it's probably the least important factor when we're talking about portraying game characters more fairly.

Again, I wouldn't have even brought it up if you hadn't submitted Alyx as the poster girl for "completely average". What's more, while beauty is subjective, the fact that there is a generally agreed upon standard for beautiful or ugly means that there will always be an average perception of how attractive a person is, which is the gauge you would use when talking about fair portrayals. Since I think most people would consider Alyx pretty, I, again, don't think she makes a great example case for this thread.

 

[Solo-Wing]

Anybody remember the big blob women monsters from God of War 2? No? Well okay then.

 

[Dimitriov]

I mean, to each his own, but I can't see too many people considering her "completely average".

She's not hideous by any means, but she's not made with sex appeal slathered all over her either, she's most certainly in the middle.

What I'm trying to get at here is that there's a thing called "above average". Hair itself has almost nothing to do with a person's natural beauty, which I'm assuming is what the OP is taking issue with. If you have a bunch of pretty people in a game with different hair, you're still not going to have it called an equal representation just because the different kinds of hair put different people off. I'm not trying to tell you you're objectively wrong in thinking she's average, but we're talking about a wider perception here, which is why I'm even bothering to contest it as an example. Overall, most people would probably refer to her as "pretty", which isn't really "completely average". Completely average is more like "okay looking".

Let's not kid ourselves, for men there's really only 3 categories of physical attraction:

1. Must have sex with
2. Would have sex with
3. Would Not have sex with (unless maybe REALLY drunk)

See? Alyx falls into category 2, or average.


I kid! I kid! mostly...

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

There's a tendency towards more attractive people in all entertainment media in general.

The exception to the rule is individuals with such eccentric appearance so as to be compelling simply for their exoticism.

 

[axlryder]

You've GOTTA be kidding me. She's your example of a less-than-attractive woman? Really?

She's my example of completely average, not ugly, not gorgeous.

As someone who drew people for a living, she clearly has a bone structure and facial features that fall in line with the modern perceptions of "beauty" to be considered totally average from an impartial perspective. That's even with me solely taking into account her general age demographic and her not being my type.

I mean, to each his own, but I can't see too many people considering her "completely average".

Still able to draw? If so heres a challenge: Draw an unattractive female. She must be in good health, between the ages of 20 and 45, not afflicted by any grotesqueries, and have facial features and a body type that conform to the average of whatever ethnicity you choose. Assume she pays a modicum of attention to her appearance. (i.e. brushed hair, reasonable clothing, no clownesque application of makeup, etc).

Grotesque is far too vague a term for your challenge to mean anything. If we're constituting "less than ideal traits" as "grotesqueries" then that's impossible, since you said make her unattractive. If you're just saying "don't make her nose gigantic or make her missing her two front teeth" then yeah, easy enough.

Also, 45 is extremely generous, at that point aging could have already totally fucked over a person's appearance. Just think of the nasolabial folds, the tear troughs, the fat loss, the labiomental creases! It's like a kid in a candy store.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

Thing is if there is one group that doesn't find a certain woman attractive there's another group that find's them completely attractive. And that's what make's us awesome.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

it's tough because if you want a main character, they also have to be appealing. it's obviously doable to make the character not attractive, it's just easier to make women "attractive" for appealing. a shortcut, if you will. it's that whole double standard nonsense.

To be honest other then the third I find the rest 100% attractive.

 

[ThePS1Fan]

A man isn't allowed like a larger woman?

A man is allowed to like whatever the fuck he likes. Mainstream media doesn't have the best grasp of this concept though.

 

[TheDoctor455]

I present:

Aveline

Wynne

There are quite a few women that aren't strictly sexy.

But when both genders are consistently fairly represented we can all stop reading posts like this....

Men aren't "fairly" represented either. Most games it's typical macho marine. So in that respect, they are kinda equally represented, as stereotypes.

Wynne was the sexist one in Dragon Age: Origins!
I was most saddened when I found out my noble could not romance her. It may have been hard at first but things could have worked out... why did she have to go all motherly on me? Why Wynne? Why?!

And likewise, I thought Aveline was an admirable person.

I can't really comment on physical appearance or sexual appeal because I am asexual...

but I think the issue isn't so much "why aren't there more unattractive women in games"... as much as it is "why aren't there fewer STEREOTYPICALLY attractive women in games"?

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Deus Ex of course. I don't see many people with the hots for Anna Navarre.

 

[Aeonknight]

What games have you been playing is sexy people everywhere ? I want to play them too .

Also this is ridiculous . Seriously . Charcters are too good looking? This is a thing? I swear people just like to complain .

And we have a winner! Welcome to just about every forum everywhere.

 

[T_ConX]

Why not include women in video games that aren't conventionally physically appealing but are not over-the-top gross or outlandish.

Producer: What were you thinking?
Casting: Well, you said you wanted gritty. In other words, ugly.
Producer: I wanted Mary Ann on Gilligan's Island ugly, not Cornelius on Planet of the Apes ugly. TV-ugly, not ... ugly-ugly.

 

[theblindedhunter]

There are tons of unattractive ladies in gaming. Like the ones with the giant wobbling balloons taped to their front.
I suppose this suggestion could actually have an effect, but it seems like the wrong way to think about it to me. For many of us out there who have problems with the way these women are represented, the problem is not (just) that they are attractive, but what is picked as the ideal of beauty.

 

[elvor0]

Why not include women in video games that aren't conventionally physically appealing but are not over-the-top gross or outlandish.

There's enough flexibility and subjectivity to make this an impossible request. One guy's average is another man's drop-dead-gorgeous and a third guy's worst nightmare.

I think I get what you mean though: game girls that aren't "eye candy". Well, how about:

Spoiler

Spoiler

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I'd say that was a nice variation, saying that, they do fulfil the role of the "machismo hard girl" well 'cept the girl from Mirrors edge, I forget her name.

Although I do find Sam pretty hot, mainly because she's got balls and can handle a gun. The kind of girl you could go to the pub with, find yourself being drunk under the table by, then get into a street fight with afterwards. I tend to find I go for the hard girl over my flat mate who generally goes for the typically attractive girl though, so I suppose they don't fit the "conventionally attractive" role. I dunno, I think most men find that personality intimidating on women, or even unattractiveness in them displaying normally "male" traits.

 

[Fijiman]

May I direct you to the following images.

Spoiler

Behold, the sexiest ladies on this thread.

 

[SonOfMethuselah]

I dunno, I don't see 'attractive' as being as much of a problem as blatantly over-sexualized. Like, I don't mind Chloe (? Dark-haired English woman from Uncharted 2), because while she's overtly sexual (at least, I recall her being such), she isn't portrayed unrealistically, if you see what I mean. She doesn't have a wildly out-of-proportion body and skimpy clothing, she's a woman you might legitimately find walking down a street somewhere.

As to an actual answer for your post, though, it's a lot like female lead roles in movies: you're not going to put someone completely unattractive (and the whole 'eye of the beholder' idea throws the legitimacy of that statement into question to begin with) in a position where people have to look at them for long periods of time, because it doesn't sell. Video games are a business, just like anything else. But you'd also have a difficult time finding a lead that absolutely everyone would call attractive.

I've never really attached the idea of 'attractiveness' or 'unattractiveness' to a video game character to begin with. Organize your pixels anyway you want, but they're still just virtual representations of the human form, and I find nothing at all appealing about it. I mean, I can still judge how they're rendered: the faces in the Elder Scrolls and latter Fallout games (3 and NV) are of an extremely strange design, and the faces in Dishonored look like deliberately campy caricatures, while the faces in Uncharted move and emote realistically, and the whole cel-shaded thing that Borderlands has going doesn't really fit the human form, but that's about as far as I'd go.

At the end of the day, I think if a female character is fully dressed, (i.e not wearing a weird, overly revealing onesy-thing like Ivy's got), it's a good enough female character. Quite often, the opposite are boring characters to begin with.

 

[excalipoor]

Excuse me, what games are these that feature unattractive male characters? Let's not count unnamed NPCs or comic relief, because examples of those can pretty easily be found for both genders. And no, it doesn't matter if you don't personally find the Marcus Phoenixes and Kratoses attractive. They're oozing testosterone, and have been very specifically designed to pander to certain audiences. Male videogame protagonists are either babyfaced pretty boys, dashing rogues, or big, burly macho men. The only difference is that the general media definition of an "attractive" woman is much narrower, so they use fewer different templates.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Rose from the Blackwell series is decidedly average, in the way a REAL person would be (rather than a whale-sized lumbering pile of jelly or a perfectly structured face and body with a few well-placed blemishes).

Also, Edna from Edna & Harvey! (Even though I think Edna is super-hot)

 

[Beffudled Sheep_v1legacy]

Why not include women in video games that aren't conventionally physically appealing but are not over-the-top gross or outlandish.

There's enough flexibility and subjectivity to make this an impossible request. One guy's average is another man's drop-dead-gorgeous and a third guy's worst nightmare.

I think I get what you mean though: game girls that aren't "eye candy". Well, how about:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

All of those were sexy to me (except the old lady) so I agree with the impossibility of this request.

OP beauty is too subjective to ever include a "normal" type of ugly person. Personally I think there are already plenty of them, Aveline from DA2 for example but a friend of mine finds her beautiful and at the same time finds Merril repulsive [sub]The Heathen![/sub] sooo I am sorry but you are doomed to failure.

 

[Xanadu84]

I'll add Chell from portal:

Spoiler

There are loads of female characters in videogames that aren't either supermodels or comedically ugly.

It should be noted that Chell went from that to, well,

Spoiler

That. Not the crazy sex bomb you might expect from other sources, but still pretty firmly in the "Idealized" catagory.