When will we see a NON-attractive woman in a video-game?

[xPixelatedx]

You guys do realize that this has been around for much longer then you think.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Men aren't "fairly" represented either. Most games it's typical macho marine. So in that respect, they are kinda equally represented, as stereotypes.

^^boom

I don't get why some people take every opportunity to jump onto this train. It works both ways. As far as protagonists go anyway.

 

[chadachada123]

I see a lot of people calling that girl from Half Life 2 "average looking"

If that's average, I weep for the self-esteem of teenage girls everywhere.

OT: Kreia is pretty much the only one I can think of. Most others are either designed to comical extremes as a form of subversion, or are simply attractive in the non-hyper sexualized sense.

If I saw someone who looked like Alyx Vance on a university campus I probably wouldn't even notice her. She certainly wouldn't get a second look or be noted as exceptionally attractive, and I would make no special effort to sit close to her if we had a course together based on her looks.

She is attractive, but not notably so. That is practically the definition of average.

Seriously?

Vance isn't average. She's well above average.

Have you ever BEEN to a university campus before? For the 20-25 age range, she's pretty average. Take 100 girls from a stereotypical university campus and sort them by attractiveness, and she'll be in the middle third. For universities, at least. For community colleges, she'd probably tip higher, because she appears to take care of herself, unlike many community college kids in general.

That said, she's also skinnier than normal, which would tip her a little farther towards the middle compared to a clone of her with an extra ten pounds, since the average guy does NOT find a sickly appearance attractive.

Average is by no means bad, though, and plenty of people would find Vance cute. Most of the girls that are most-attractive to me don't fit stereotypical definitions of "hot," for example.

To make sure we're on the same page, this is who we're talking about, right?

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Attractive is in the eye of the beholder, but TV/Movies will always have make-up departments, and in regards to video games it is easier to model flat Michaelangelo type figures than it is to model acne scars, stretch marks, enlarged pores, etc etc etc.

So games like Dishonored may be about as close as we get. The women's features aren't all 'the golden ratio', and people aren't overly sexualized (besides, you know, the prostitutes).

 

[DrOswald]

I see a lot of people calling that girl from Half Life 2 "average looking"

If that's average, I weep for the self-esteem of teenage girls everywhere.

OT: Kreia is pretty much the only one I can think of. Most others are either designed to comical extremes as a form of subversion, or are simply attractive in the non-hyper sexualized sense.

If I saw someone who looked like Alyx Vance on a university campus I probably wouldn't even notice her. She certainly wouldn't get a second look or be noted as exceptionally attractive, and I would make no special effort to sit close to her if we had a course together based on her looks.

She is attractive, but not notably so. That is practically the definition of average.

Seriously?

Vance isn't average. She's well above average.

I think we just found a potential reason for the hyper-sexualized character design in modern games. And now that I think about it, Moviebob's theory that this character design style creates unreasonable expectations in young men in regards to how they view women based on appearance has just been proven right.

You know, like how a lot of teenage girls don't seem to realize that if you're 17 and weigh 130 pounds, losing weight is the last thing you need to worry about.

I weep for humanity.

There are a few possibilities here:

1. You live in the land of ugly people, so anyone average looks amazing to you.

2. I live in the land of supermodels, so anyone average looks ugly to me.

3. We have different tastes in women.

4. Alyx Vance, as she appears in Half Life 2, is a low fidelity approximation of a human, not actually a human. Our brains fill in the details. This means Alyx Vance is actually as attractive as the viewer believes her to be, within a certain margin. I believe her to be average, you believe her to be extremely beautiful. Both points of view are equally valid.

I have one question: How old are you, and what age are the women you see on a daily basis? It does not work to compare Alyx Vance, who is supposed to be 25 and looks it, to 17 year old girls. Mid twenties women are in their sexual prime, generally at their most attractive. A woman who looked like Alyx Vance is going to be above average attractive if you compare her to 17 year old girls because she has an age advantage.

Among the mid twenties women I saw every day on campus, according to my own taste, I would say Alyx Vance is average.

P.S. "I weep for humanity." Stop being over dramatic when someone has a slightly different opinion than you.

 

[barbzilla]

I've been watching alot of videos and reading alot of forum posts on the escapist going on about female representation in video games and I have stumbled across a solution of sorts.

Why not include women in video games that aren't conventionally physically appealing but are not over-the-top gross or outlandish.

You see unattractive men all the time, you can't see the same for women.

If you want to represent anything fairly in a medium - show it in every light. For example (and this is another thing about video games) evil people do not have to be ugly nor do they have to be evil all the time, or REALLY evil, or powerful,intelligent or rich.

Women have varied roles in video games; from sex-symbols for some to lust over, protagonists like in metroid and support characters (i could go on but you get the point). So we can conclude that women have been represented fairly well up until now as far as professions go.

However I think the real leap forward could be made by simply having more (or any) average looking women and characters with real depth in video games.

I think it's lazy and sometimes even cowardly of developers to not take the time to create realistic characters with more than two dimensions or a single purpose (such as plot-device, fantasy projection or sex-symbol).

I know that my points probably don't apply to EVERY game, and im sure people with more knowledge of this medium can name them. But when both genders are consistently fairly represented we can all stop reading posts like this....

I would venture to say I see quite a few. I will not argue that it mimics life with the frequency, but neither does the ratio of attractive to non attractive males. The man ratio issue I see a major inequality is just the number of women vs the number of men present in video games. For the most part I think it is more of an oversight than an intentional slight, but it is in the process of changing slowly.

 

[Zack Schlipf]

I was playing BL2 and my sister walked into the room when Ellie appeared and just screamed "OH MY GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE". That alone made that game worth buying IMO.

 

[Kathinka]

that woman from the first condemned, whatsherfaceagain. standard overweight middle aged white woman. x)

 

[barbzilla]

Umm, Chell?
Chell was intentionally pretty rough looking, and she still has a rep as one of the best female characters in gaming.

That's ridiculous. How on earth does she qualify as one of the best characters in gaming? All she does is run around with a gun.

Because of the property she's tied to, she's awesome through assosciation.

Oh, and she beat two giant killer robots with entire military complexes to use against her whilst surviving multiple death traps, using only a portal gun to escape.

I hope that answers your question.

I don't care if she single-handedly defeated the undead armies of hell while standing on her head, the point is she has no character. She's just a face and body with a portal gun that we make do things.

Are you only here to be a buzzkill? Because you haven't bought anything to the table. I mean Really, there's just no pleasing some people. You also seem to have missed the point of the silent protagonist. They are defined by their actions because they don't speak, ergo, you invent their personality OR just judge them by all the awesome shit they do. You're entitled to your opinion, but please, think your opinion through a little more instead of just popping up and being a tool.

Why don't you attack my argument instead of me? No I'm not intending to be a "buzzkill" or anything of the sort. I just don't see how an expressionless silent protagonist can compare to someone who shows us their feelings, their thoughts. If we judge a protagonist's character by their actions and deeds, it becomes a competition between who kills the biggest demon in the game. Whoever the person that does it actually IS, doesn't matter.

Umm, Chell?
Chell was intentionally pretty rough looking, and she still has a rep as one of the best female characters in gaming.

That's ridiculous. How on earth does she qualify as one of the best characters in gaming? All she does is run around with a gun.

Because of the property she's tied to, she's awesome through assosciation.

Oh, and she beat two giant killer robots with entire military complexes to use against her whilst surviving multiple death traps, using only a portal gun to escape.

I hope that answers your question.

I don't care if she single-handedly defeated the undead armies of hell while standing on her head, the point is she has no character. She's just a face and body with a portal gun that we make do things.

I don't think you understand how protagonists in video games work.

Why don't you tell me? I'd really like to know how Chell from Portal can possibly have more character than, say, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil.

Well I think that it would depend on how you play games I guess. If you are only interested in what the developers tell you the character is supposed to be like then yes, Jade is going to have much more depth and character. On the other hand, if you are like some people then you will fill in a character mold with your own story and background (think the TES games) when none is provided for you. This means that a character who is a blank slate will end up with this elaborate backstory and personality if you follow through, leading to a much deeper character than anything a dev can cook up to toss onto a 2d/3d image.

 

[tangoprime]

How about Heather from Silent Hill 3, not only is she a freckly meh of a damaged young woman, but she's the protagonist, and a very strong character.

 

[Semitendon]

Well, I was gonna throw "when will we see a non-attractive woman in hollywood" into the mix, but they keep casting Drew Barrymore in movies. . . so I guess I would lose that one immediately.

Anyways, I think there are "normal" women in videogames, it's just that:

1. There aren't very many

and

2. The sheer fact they are normal makes them fade from memory faster than OJ trying to remember how to put on a glove.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

What about Olga from Metal Gear Solid 2?

 

[DrOswald]

I see a lot of people calling that girl from Half Life 2 "average looking"

If that's average, I weep for the self-esteem of teenage girls everywhere.

OT: Kreia is pretty much the only one I can think of. Most others are either designed to comical extremes as a form of subversion, or are simply attractive in the non-hyper sexualized sense.

If I saw someone who looked like Alyx Vance on a university campus I probably wouldn't even notice her. She certainly wouldn't get a second look or be noted as exceptionally attractive, and I would make no special effort to sit close to her if we had a course together based on her looks.

She is attractive, but not notably so. That is practically the definition of average.

Seriously?

Vance isn't average. She's well above average.

I think we just found a potential reason for the hyper-sexualized character design in modern games. And now that I think about it, Moviebob's theory that this character design style creates unreasonable expectations in young men in regards to how they view women based on appearance has just been proven right.

You know, like how a lot of teenage girls don't seem to realize that if you're 17 and weigh 130 pounds, losing weight is the last thing you need to worry about.

I weep for humanity.

There are a few possibilities here:

1. You live in the land of ugly people, so anyone average looks amazing to you.

2. I live in the land of supermodels, so anyone average looks ugly to me.

3. We have different tastes in women.

That would be it.

I don't know. According to the Huffington post, I live in the city with the 5th most beautiful population in the United States. Maybe I do live in the land of supermodels.

I have one question: How old are you, and what age are the women you see on a daily basis? It does not work to compare Alyx Vance, who is supposed to be 25 and looks it, to 17 year old girls. Mid twenties women are in their sexual prime, generally at their most attractive. A woman who looked like Alyx Vance is going to be above average attractive if you compare her to 17 year old girls because she has an age advantage.

Among the mid twenties women I saw every day on campus, according to my own taste, I would say Alyx Vance is average.

I'm 20. And my opinion on physical attractiveness differs greatly from most people I meet. Some say my standards are very low, I say my standards are simply more realistic of actual human beings, and I don't hold every person to an identical scale of what make someone average or attractive or unattractive.

First, I believe most women are beautiful. Many, perhaps even most, women I consider "below average" meet the standard of physical attractiveness at which I would date, especially among the peers of the theoretical Alyx Vance. But who meets my standard has nothing to do with the average level of physical attractiveness. Given 100 random women from my university to rate I may end up with 90 or more women who meet my standard, but that does not make all 90 women above average.

Second, very few people judge attractiveness on a static scale. This is because there are many factors that make a person attractive. For example, I find Christina Hendricks, Stana Katic, and Natalie Portman all pretty much equally attractive, but each for very different reasons.

 

[repeating integers]

Those people weren't hit with an ugly stick, more like the whole ugly tree.

Offtopic, but that made me laugh out loud. I'm totally stealing that.

 

[wulf3n]

Jade's only backstory and motivation is again "Who cares, she has tits!" That is why Chell is more relevant than Jade, she isn't just their because she's got tits that look like watermelons.

Are you sure you know who Jade from Beyond Good & Evil is?

I can't seem to find the gigantic boobies you've been referring to.

I'm going to give him the tiniest benefit of the doubt and assume he somehow heard the name Jade and assumed Mortal Kombat. Still atrocious reading comprehension but it at least explains the inane baboon babble that started frothing forth with some logical connection.

He gave me a pm, he had confused Beyond Good and Evil with Dead or Alive 5.

 

[Nulmas]

He gave me a pm, he had confused Beyond Good and Evil with Dead or Alive 5.

Makes sense. An odd mistake to make, but it makes sense. I mean, Dead or Alive should have popped up in my mind as soon as someone mentioned huge knockers and lack of personality in the same sentence.