Plus that whole section around Kissame, which is just hotels and resturaunts...chaser5000 said:
God I loved vacationing in florida. Nights by the pool. Endless buffets.
Where you want the next fallout setting?
- Thread starter chuckman1
- Start date
God I loved vacationing in florida. Nights by the pool. Endless buffets.
The mist would be a slightly different, scarier color. And maybe more toxic or something.Gordon_4 said:
I was always of the thought process that Fallout needed to be set in the US, but I'll be the first to admit: it does start to feel like it has run it's course.
There is only so many times we can see the 1950's aesthetic before it all starts to look sort of the same, and at this point I honestly would be interested in transferring the game to a different country and seeing a whole new set of lore, factions, etc. I mean, shit, if Far Cry is willing to transfer itself to the damn Caveman era, I have no issue with Fallout trying something totally different.
However, if it does have to be in the USA:
-As someone mentioned earlier, make Fallout: Tactics canon and set it near Chicago and the Midwest. Just adding all the various Factions from Tactics alone can lead to tons more content (the Beastlords, Robots, the new Brotherhood, the Reavers, etc.).
-Set it in the Southeast. Swamps, oceans, crazed hillbilly cannibals, giant mutant alligators. It would lend itself to a much greener and more wildlife oriented look than the last few games.
There is only so many times we can see the 1950's aesthetic before it all starts to look sort of the same, and at this point I honestly would be interested in transferring the game to a different country and seeing a whole new set of lore, factions, etc. I mean, shit, if Far Cry is willing to transfer itself to the damn Caveman era, I have no issue with Fallout trying something totally different.
However, if it does have to be in the USA:
-As someone mentioned earlier, make Fallout: Tactics canon and set it near Chicago and the Midwest. Just adding all the various Factions from Tactics alone can lead to tons more content (the Beastlords, Robots, the new Brotherhood, the Reavers, etc.).
-Set it in the Southeast. Swamps, oceans, crazed hillbilly cannibals, giant mutant alligators. It would lend itself to a much greener and more wildlife oriented look than the last few games.
Tl;dr: This is a serious answer. Don't read if you just want light forum entertainment. No story spoilers in my text, but there may be in the linked video.
1. Let the old team do their thing:
Let the people who made Wasteland, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 do their thing again. For all of those not in the know, many of them where the ones who made Fallout: New Vegas. Consider the thematic things that were introduced in these four games and compare them to their sibling releases. The whole premise of post-apocalypse coupled with the naive atomic age aesthetic, FEV, BoS, NCR, the majority of enemies, the SPECIAL system, Pip-boy, vaults, Vault-Tec, Deathclaws, killing children, having sex, Buffout, Mentats, Jet, severe addiction, the majority of weapons, the Enclave, the stimpack design, ghouls, Followers of the Apocalypse, caps - the list goes on.
2. Bethesda's involvement was a step in the right direction:
I want you all to know that Bethesda is not completely inept. Say what you will about their engine, but they brought a lot of focus in game design, technology and polish to the games. They made the whole VATS system, which is just one example of all the engine components that made up the 3D-era of Fallout games.
The F1 and F2 skill systems ware horribly implemented in that you could sink a lot of skill points into skills without tangible value. What meaning does the skill Explosives have if there are no mines to disarm? (Novelty is a good answer, but my point is that the skill is pushed so far back from the spotlight in the actual gameplay that it is too hard to make a focused character about it.)
Bethesda brought the setting into a stable 3D release. For comparison, see the game "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel". For their first attempt (Fallout 3), they also explored a small portion of the Fallout setting which is 1950:ies naive Americana (the kind you see mostly hinted at in the intro of F1, but then left in the background of F1 and F2). They also simplified and focused the skill system - a good change in my opinion.
3. A good way forward is a mix that lies somewhere in-between:
Fallout: New Vegas is the result of what happens when Bethesda lays the technical ground-work and the original team makes the world building. Caesar's Legion was not a new idea, but had existed in the minds of the designers since somewhere after Fallout 2. The "fresh direction" that New Vegas took was actually a lot of the original team's ideas realized.
From the engine of F3 they further improved the skill system with great ideas such as Damage Threshold, the use of cooked food as a viable item, alternative and craft-able ammunition - and more.
Bethesda supplied them with an engine that advanced enough to support a big 3D world with loads of small items, while also being simple enough to add content to. I imagine that this was exactly what the original devs needed to be able to focus on content.
Bethesda:
+ Has a ready-made engine that, so far, has been good enough for the scope.
+ Makes few game design and engine improvements each incremental release.
+ Makes bigger worlds.
- Makes more shallow worlds.
- Is probably a big corporate blob that is reluctant to stray too far from their established intellectual property.
- Tends to lack a bit of soul.
- Their engine seems to be hard to add new features to.
- Was extremely petty and unfair towards original devs when it came to the payment for Fallout: New Vegas.
The original team:
+ They practically ARE the essence of the intellectual property ("Fallout") in all but name. Bethesda owns the trademark, but not the creative energy.
+ Makes great and innovative gameplay changes each instalment.
+ Explores the setting in novel and often satisfying ways.
+ Makes deeper worlds.
- Worse history with bugs than Bethesda.
- Seems to not as skilled with introducing polished engine features. (This point is more moot at this time, since obviously Bethesda devs know their own engine best and others can't be held responsible for if that engine is hard to change.)
- Has a history of intending a larger scope for their game without being able to get there (time, money, ambition), resulting in a lot of cut content.
Conclusion (a naive guess for a recipe for success):
Let Bethesda do the engine work and heavy lifting, while the orignal devs do the game world. Mix and match between teams as needed. Aid the original devs and help them out with the scope so they do not get stuck. Take Quality Assurance seriously. Smack the management (especially upper management!) over the fingers when naughty, and let them shepherd when nice. Do not feed egos of marketing nor management. Keep things rolling to a reasonable degree and compensate all devs handsomely after project completion. Compensate management modestly, and if they are really good they get the same level of pay as the devs. Reinvest earnings into a serious engine overhaul and pre-production for the next game, while still limiting the scope. (That is, no new MMO:s please. Add simple co-op to existing titles first. I'd rather play F4 with a single friend than WoW with 20.)
As for settings in different parts of the world...
Sure, why not? At first glance it may seem that it clashes with the idea of Americana, but remember that American culture has a lot of global influence that can still tap into the theme. However I don't really like the idea of "please pick my city next!!" that seems to be pervasive here. Instead, think outside the box. China is a nice example, though that could be tricky due to IRL politics (the Chinese government is awfully touchy). Why not Africa? Indonesia? Take a part of the world which things actually go well in? What happens AFTER the post-apocalypse? What is the next stage of civilization after the state the world was in F4? How about a game where you take the settlement building even further? A city-sim?
What feelings did Fallout tap into? (naive Atomic age, corruption, fall of civilization, tragedy, exploring a foreign sci-fi world, the futility of it all as the vicious cycle begins anew)
What activities have we explored in this setting? Are there activities that fit here, that do not fit in other settings? (treasure-hunting that leads into management simulation, building, vices like drug addiction and child killing, wild-west morals, defeating the big bad ? la Mad Max, combat, character building, novel ways to act through the wasteland)
I took some ideas from this video. Story spoiler warnings!
"Review: Fallout 4" by Super Bunnyhop [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dejO6aiA7bs]
Edit: Upon re-watching the above video, I realize that I was probably too lenient on Bethesda. The studio is lagging behind severely in the technical department by today's standards.
1. Let the old team do their thing:
Let the people who made Wasteland, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 do their thing again. For all of those not in the know, many of them where the ones who made Fallout: New Vegas. Consider the thematic things that were introduced in these four games and compare them to their sibling releases. The whole premise of post-apocalypse coupled with the naive atomic age aesthetic, FEV, BoS, NCR, the majority of enemies, the SPECIAL system, Pip-boy, vaults, Vault-Tec, Deathclaws, killing children, having sex, Buffout, Mentats, Jet, severe addiction, the majority of weapons, the Enclave, the stimpack design, ghouls, Followers of the Apocalypse, caps - the list goes on.
2. Bethesda's involvement was a step in the right direction:
I want you all to know that Bethesda is not completely inept. Say what you will about their engine, but they brought a lot of focus in game design, technology and polish to the games. They made the whole VATS system, which is just one example of all the engine components that made up the 3D-era of Fallout games.
The F1 and F2 skill systems ware horribly implemented in that you could sink a lot of skill points into skills without tangible value. What meaning does the skill Explosives have if there are no mines to disarm? (Novelty is a good answer, but my point is that the skill is pushed so far back from the spotlight in the actual gameplay that it is too hard to make a focused character about it.)
Bethesda brought the setting into a stable 3D release. For comparison, see the game "Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel". For their first attempt (Fallout 3), they also explored a small portion of the Fallout setting which is 1950:ies naive Americana (the kind you see mostly hinted at in the intro of F1, but then left in the background of F1 and F2). They also simplified and focused the skill system - a good change in my opinion.
3. A good way forward is a mix that lies somewhere in-between:
Fallout: New Vegas is the result of what happens when Bethesda lays the technical ground-work and the original team makes the world building. Caesar's Legion was not a new idea, but had existed in the minds of the designers since somewhere after Fallout 2. The "fresh direction" that New Vegas took was actually a lot of the original team's ideas realized.
From the engine of F3 they further improved the skill system with great ideas such as Damage Threshold, the use of cooked food as a viable item, alternative and craft-able ammunition - and more.
Bethesda supplied them with an engine that advanced enough to support a big 3D world with loads of small items, while also being simple enough to add content to. I imagine that this was exactly what the original devs needed to be able to focus on content.
Bethesda:
+ Has a ready-made engine that, so far, has been good enough for the scope.
+ Makes few game design and engine improvements each incremental release.
+ Makes bigger worlds.
- Makes more shallow worlds.
- Is probably a big corporate blob that is reluctant to stray too far from their established intellectual property.
- Tends to lack a bit of soul.
- Their engine seems to be hard to add new features to.
- Was extremely petty and unfair towards original devs when it came to the payment for Fallout: New Vegas.
The original team:
+ They practically ARE the essence of the intellectual property ("Fallout") in all but name. Bethesda owns the trademark, but not the creative energy.
+ Makes great and innovative gameplay changes each instalment.
+ Explores the setting in novel and often satisfying ways.
+ Makes deeper worlds.
- Worse history with bugs than Bethesda.
- Seems to not as skilled with introducing polished engine features. (This point is more moot at this time, since obviously Bethesda devs know their own engine best and others can't be held responsible for if that engine is hard to change.)
- Has a history of intending a larger scope for their game without being able to get there (time, money, ambition), resulting in a lot of cut content.
Conclusion (a naive guess for a recipe for success):
Let Bethesda do the engine work and heavy lifting, while the orignal devs do the game world. Mix and match between teams as needed. Aid the original devs and help them out with the scope so they do not get stuck. Take Quality Assurance seriously. Smack the management (especially upper management!) over the fingers when naughty, and let them shepherd when nice. Do not feed egos of marketing nor management. Keep things rolling to a reasonable degree and compensate all devs handsomely after project completion. Compensate management modestly, and if they are really good they get the same level of pay as the devs. Reinvest earnings into a serious engine overhaul and pre-production for the next game, while still limiting the scope. (That is, no new MMO:s please. Add simple co-op to existing titles first. I'd rather play F4 with a single friend than WoW with 20.)
As for settings in different parts of the world...
Sure, why not? At first glance it may seem that it clashes with the idea of Americana, but remember that American culture has a lot of global influence that can still tap into the theme. However I don't really like the idea of "please pick my city next!!" that seems to be pervasive here. Instead, think outside the box. China is a nice example, though that could be tricky due to IRL politics (the Chinese government is awfully touchy). Why not Africa? Indonesia? Take a part of the world which things actually go well in? What happens AFTER the post-apocalypse? What is the next stage of civilization after the state the world was in F4? How about a game where you take the settlement building even further? A city-sim?
What feelings did Fallout tap into? (naive Atomic age, corruption, fall of civilization, tragedy, exploring a foreign sci-fi world, the futility of it all as the vicious cycle begins anew)
What activities have we explored in this setting? Are there activities that fit here, that do not fit in other settings? (treasure-hunting that leads into management simulation, building, vices like drug addiction and child killing, wild-west morals, defeating the big bad ? la Mad Max, combat, character building, novel ways to act through the wasteland)
I took some ideas from this video. Story spoiler warnings!
"Review: Fallout 4" by Super Bunnyhop [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dejO6aiA7bs]
Edit: Upon re-watching the above video, I realize that I was probably too lenient on Bethesda. The studio is lagging behind severely in the technical department by today's standards.
I agree. Add the ideal-60's-holiday-location of the Florida Keys, get all old-school Miami up in it too. Mutated tropical jungle and swamps. Extremely different from what we've seen so far, but we can still get Americana turned to 11.SaneAmongInsane said:
Oh and give it back to Obsidian again, but with some of Bethesda's environmental designers. And give ' em extra time so it won't be awfully buggy.
In the real world? In an Obsidian Studio.
In game, I would either enjoy the heck out of:
A port town on the Great Lakes or even just a normal town near them. Sault Saint Marie, Duluth/Superior, or even Mackinaw. The frigid weathers would finally mean a nuclear winter setting, replacing the desert thing they have been doing since game 1 with something new. Creatures such as mutated fish, moose, and wolves would be awesome, with a focus on more hunting gameplay at times (The creatures hunting you for instance). More hunting and civilian weaponry then military, with a lot more scarcity. Huge industrial districts, worn out and half sunk freighters, and the fact there would be tons of vertical gameplay since they all take place on hilled cities.
Or perhaps Washington (the state). Wild woods of the area overgrown for centuries. Human contact limited at times. Imagine a part of the Fallout world nature has almost fully reclaimed, and seems empty and desolate in a new way. Vines and trees jutting out of buildings, tiny towns being eaten up by the mutant force of nature. Constant Radioactive/Acid rain would force most humans underground or in cover, making nature itself a constant threat and gameplay element. Perhaps Fallout Seattle would be a huge hub of skyscrapers and tech as well.
In game, I would either enjoy the heck out of:
A port town on the Great Lakes or even just a normal town near them. Sault Saint Marie, Duluth/Superior, or even Mackinaw. The frigid weathers would finally mean a nuclear winter setting, replacing the desert thing they have been doing since game 1 with something new. Creatures such as mutated fish, moose, and wolves would be awesome, with a focus on more hunting gameplay at times (The creatures hunting you for instance). More hunting and civilian weaponry then military, with a lot more scarcity. Huge industrial districts, worn out and half sunk freighters, and the fact there would be tons of vertical gameplay since they all take place on hilled cities.
Or perhaps Washington (the state). Wild woods of the area overgrown for centuries. Human contact limited at times. Imagine a part of the Fallout world nature has almost fully reclaimed, and seems empty and desolate in a new way. Vines and trees jutting out of buildings, tiny towns being eaten up by the mutant force of nature. Constant Radioactive/Acid rain would force most humans underground or in cover, making nature itself a constant threat and gameplay element. Perhaps Fallout Seattle would be a huge hub of skyscrapers and tech as well.
distortedreality said:
More seriously, I'd put it in western Canada, in the Yukon. You've got Canadians who don't particularly care for the Americans who annexed them so long ago (so if the NCR is in the game, they can be an outright enemy); the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't exist, instead replaced by some remnant of the occupying force; and across the Alaskan border, you've possibly got hostile Chinese.
And no. F***ing. Rad. Scorpions.
But mutant moose. [http://orig15.deviantart.net/b7eb/f/2005/009/9/5/moose.jpg]
Somewhere out West (Western U.S., that is). I really enjoyed New Vegas. But I'm also somewhat of a "desert rat". The wide open prairie appeals to me more than urban sprawl decay.
California would be interesting since it's the NCR stomping ground. Arizona or New Mexico might be fun too.
But I was thinking Texas (and not just because I live here). The terrain itself varies from green grass to sandy beaches to desert mesas. And it already has its own bizarre culture that's ripe for Fallout-style parody!
California would be interesting since it's the NCR stomping ground. Arizona or New Mexico might be fun too.
But I was thinking Texas (and not just because I live here). The terrain itself varies from green grass to sandy beaches to desert mesas. And it already has its own bizarre culture that's ripe for Fallout-style parody!
I am hoping (but not expecting) the next Fallout to be Fallout: New Canaan. Some Utah, some Salt Lake City and a healthy sprinkling of post apocalyptic Mormons. Ever since New Canaan was brought up in New Vegas I've been hoping the setting will get its' own franchise entry.
First and foremost I want it to be set outside of Bethesda. Those people don't seem to care anymore. Fallout 4 feels like an early access title.
Texas, or possibly Florida. Or hell, how about everybody's favorite Wild Wasteland locale: Fort Knox, Kentucky?
A combination of a couple suggestions
as much as Detroit made me laugh)
Chicago, it's a Midwest setting with great architecture and an interesting environment. It's on a Great Lake and if you could set the game in the winter you could still have a "frozen north" setting.
Of course if you did that, the way the game clock progresses there would be a point where it's July and everything is frozen, unless you tried to BS some kind of nuclear winter "only in the north" explanation. Lol.
as much as Detroit made me laugh)Chicago, it's a Midwest setting with great architecture and an interesting environment. It's on a Great Lake and if you could set the game in the winter you could still have a "frozen north" setting.
Of course if you did that, the way the game clock progresses there would be a point where it's July and everything is frozen, unless you tried to BS some kind of nuclear winter "only in the north" explanation. Lol.
A non-USA place would be quite interesting to see how everyone else has fared. Canada, perhaps, as it was annexed (according to FO3 load screens) could be an option.
For FO4, I'd like to see a pure new Vault area. Vault Zero. Where the CEOs and all those doods who created and designed the vaults remain. Ancestors and their long-term survivors. Hear and learn about what they really wanted to accomplish. Maybe find out they orchestrated the bombs being dropped to get people to rush into the vaults. Maybe they managed to create some super human (Green skinned Human which they are neither ghoul nor super mutant. Immortal and radioactive immunity. No alteration to sanity (or plenty of it goes unnoticed).
Otherwise one might just pick any interestingly large locations to create the next world around. Hollywood?
For FO4, I'd like to see a pure new Vault area. Vault Zero. Where the CEOs and all those doods who created and designed the vaults remain. Ancestors and their long-term survivors. Hear and learn about what they really wanted to accomplish. Maybe find out they orchestrated the bombs being dropped to get people to rush into the vaults. Maybe they managed to create some super human (Green skinned Human which they are neither ghoul nor super mutant. Immortal and radioactive immunity. No alteration to sanity (or plenty of it goes unnoticed).
Otherwise one might just pick any interestingly large locations to create the next world around. Hollywood?
One thing I liked about Fallout 3 was seeing famous landmarks. I only remember the Alexander garden (and the walls of the Kremlin) and Lenins tomb in Metro Last light. It might because I dont know Moscow's landmarks thoughCharcharo said: