Which comic book hero would you get rid of?

Raika

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Winnosh said:
But Deadpool isn't sexist or misogynistic. He was created by someone who was but everthing he is now has to do with good writers actually getting ahold of him and making him something completely different.
I didn't say the character himself was a misogynist at any point. What I said was that his origins are rooted in the innate misogyny of both the comic book industry in general and the creator of Deadpool in particular, Rob Liefeld.

Did anybody else hear the howling wolves, crashing thunder, and pipe organ music when I said 'Rob Liefeld', or is it just me?


I also said he isn't funny, but that's, you know, just, like, my opinion, man.
 

Winnosh

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Relish in Chaos said:
Aquaman, because he sounds like a joke, Iron Man, because he?s the least interesting of the two billionaire superheroes and I?ve just never found him interesting, and all the female knock-offs of existing superheroes (e.g. Supergirl, Spidergirl, Batgirl).

Oh, and I?ve never been a fan of Robin either. Batman just seems like a strong character without that pansy around him. And there really needs to be a good superheroine; Wonder Woman just doesn?t cut it. Catwoman doesn't count, nor is she a good role model for girls; she?s just fanservice for men. The female members of the X-Men are part of an ensemble, and as such, they don't carry a series by themselves.
Will assume you don't really read comics. Nothing wrong with that but saying a character doesn't deserve to exist because you do not like what other people have told you about him, or because of internet jokes is a little silly.

Batman just doesn't really work without the Robin character and its something that's been proven time and time again. Even if the character isn't called Robin they need someone filling his or her role to keep Batman from going crazy. Robin is there to show Batman what he's fighting for. Training a Robin is what helps keep Batman from going over the edge and becoming what he fights.

Aquaman is one of the founders of the Justice League. A super strong, magically gifted, combat expert that is a champion of the greek pantheon and routenely fights gods and demons from beyond.
 

Winnosh

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Raika said:
Winnosh said:
But Deadpool isn't sexist or misogynistic. He was created by someone who was but everthing he is now has to do with good writers actually getting ahold of him and making him something completely different.
I didn't say the character himself was a misogynist at any point. What I said was that his origins are rooted in the innate misogyny of both the comic book industry in general and the creator of Deadpool in particular, Rob Liefeld.

Did anybody else hear the howling wolves, crashing thunder, and pipe organ music when I said 'Rob Liefeld', or is it just me?


I also said he isn't funny, but that's, you know, just, like, my opinion, man.
You said he was a testiment to the continued existence of sexism and mysoginy in comics. For that to be true he would have to continually represent those thoughts and ideas. When in fact he shares nothing but a name and character design with his original concept and Rob Lifield doesn't like the character because he was never supposed to be silly or fun when he invented him.

Its like Rob being upset that Rictor and Shatterstar entered into an openly gay relationship. Two other characters he created that other people made actually good and likeable.
 

Tsukuyomi

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Mostly I think Deadpool's problem is his fans. He really never should have moved beyond the comics, in hindsight. No, I don't care how much Ryan Reynolds fits the role. He's a guilty pleasure for most of us and realistically speaking he's really only at his best when he's teamed with a proper, serious hero. Slipping him in with Cable was a brilliant move to me. Cable needed some levity since, well....it's Cable.

As far as the Robins go, I should probably point out that they do serve a purpose. More than once a Robin has moved into being a hero in his or her own right. Nightwing and Red Robin are two of the most obvious. Red Hood could also be clumped into this category after a fashion as well.

Superman...honestly, people get far too tied up in his physical capabilities. Yes, he can do absurd things and stop almost any threat. Sure. However there also ways to hurt the man very badly beyond the usual kryptonite/red solar-rays business. Focusing on the physical aspect you miss a long procession of writers and artists who have made it their business to break the Man of Steel and push his boundaries. Watch Superman vs. the Elite for an example. Kingdom Come, Last Son, Red Son, doubtless there are others. Hell, if you want a surprisingly good take on physically destroying the man, try All-Star Superman. Luthor's final scheme was...surprisingly good, and surprisingly effective.

Anyway....on topic:

Honestly speaking, I think I'd get rid of the Watchmen. All of them. Entire Book. Gone. Why? Because while it is indeed good, and it's an interesting take on how Superheroes COULD be, a lot of people take it as how superheroes SHOULD be. Yes, realistically speaking these are the types of people we'd have being heroes in the real world. People pushed into it, people with costume fetishes, moral extremists, blah blah blah. Yes, I get it. It's got a broad ring of truth to it, there's no denying that. But it's not how all heroes should be. Some? Yes. It's worthwhile to remind people on occasion of the absurdity of these figures. But there is NO need to hold everything up to that standard. Superheroes ARE NOT REAL. That is WHY you read them. Watchmen comes along and suddenly everyone forgets that. They don't all need to be realistic, yet some people will SCREAM for it. They'll flail and gnash their teeth and cry about it. Superheroes are a FANTASY. It's no different than Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. None of it exists. Why are we making a point to demand Superheroes be realistic?

There is a difference, however, between demanding realism, and expanding a world and speculating. At least to me. When a friend of mine and I sit around at lunch and speculate on how a Pokemon Center can function, offering free services including food and lodgings, without some kind of revenue, we're not demanding an explanation be put into the games, anime, manga, or whatever. We're just exploring the possibilities. Whining that Superman is too unrealistic or that Captain America represents outdated values (welcome to the party! you're late!), is just annoying. People have explored those things already. They have revealed those flaws. There's no need to keep throwing a tantrum about it when not only have the issues been addressed, it's FICTION anyway. There's no NEED to throw so much reality into those characters.

Watchmen is good. It's a good read and I enjoy re-reading it from time to time. But people take it too seriously and they try and use it to force-feed realism into a medium that doesn't have it in the first place. Either people need to stop this crap, or Watchmen needs to disappear.
 

Fappy

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I wouldn't say Deadpool simply because, as stated above, his primary problem is rooted in his fanbase. Not really the character's fault.

I wouldn't get rid of him for long, but I'd say Wolverine should be shot off into space for a few years. He really doesn't need to be in everything.
 

Khazoth

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Wolverine AND Superman. Two characters that have no depth.


When you make your character completely invincible, the story stops holding weight. Don't give me that BS about Superman being about his personality and mind either. He's a dull character.


But Wolverine? He used to be cool, a mysterious past he couldn't remember, powers he didn't fully understand. There was a sense people around him knew more then they let on so there was a real sense that he couldn't trust people too much. Then it was explained that he was a part of a super soldier program. (Real original, guys.) But let's end on this fact, he survived a nuclear explosion at point blank range. No matter how hard you wanna make me think Wolverine can be killed? I'm going to remember that he survived a nuke and my suspension of disbelief will be gone.
 

UnmotivatedSlacker

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Pandabearparade said:
Superman.

I hate Superman. He isn't a super hero, he's a God, and he's not interesting to read about because he's too goddamned noble.

I like anti-heroes, or at least heroes with some character flaws. Perfect godmode Mary Sue heroes just annoy me.
Do you read Superman comics? I've noticed that people who say this tend not to read much of his stuff.

OT: The X-Men or at least put them in their own universe. They just don't work the way they are now.
 

Dashiva

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UnmotivatedSlacker said:
Pandabearparade said:
Superman.

I hate Superman. He isn't a super hero, he's a God, and he's not interesting to read about because he's too goddamned noble.

I like anti-heroes, or at least heroes with some character flaws. Perfect godmode Mary Sue heroes just annoy me.
Do you read Superman comics? I've noticed that people who say this tend not to read much of his stuff.

OT: The X-Men or at least put them in their own universe. They just don't work the way they are now.

Trust me, I've read Superman's stuff and even I'd say that. He's a boring, mostly-invincible hero. Give us someone with flaws and struggles that are actually interesting and slightly relatable.

Totally agree about the X-Men - AvX just feels like an event partly motivated by not really knowing what to do with the X-Men. Their own universe'd be awesome.
 

UnmotivatedSlacker

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Khazoth said:
Wolverine AND Superman. Two characters that have no depth.


When you make your character completely invincible, the story stops holding weight. Don't give me that BS about Superman being about his personality and mind either. He's a dull character.


But Wolverine? He used to be cool, a mysterious past he couldn't remember, powers he didn't fully understand. There was a sense people around him knew more then they let on so there was a real sense that he couldn't trust people too much. Then it was explained that he was a part of a super soldier program. (Real original, guys.) But let's end on this fact, he survived a nuclear explosion at point blank range. No matter how hard you wanna make me think Wolverine can be killed? I'm going to remember that he survived a nuke and my suspension of disbelief will be gone.
So you're saying Superman has no depth while completely disregarding his personality, nice. And Superman is not invincible, a ton shit can hurt him and he's gone against people stronger than him. I'll agree that they made Wolverine's healing way overpowered though
 

Odbarc

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which Super-hero to remove?
Super-man. Not because I don't like him, but his power is being invincible/indestructible/the-strongest-in-the-universe/speedster/flight/lasers. And his ONLY weakness also cripples him into being the weakest-in-the-universe because of a glowing pebble which either means your enemies have it and you lose or they don't and you win.
Flipping a coin isn't interesting.

Mind you, I like Super-man. But as the business of Super-heroes has become more and more interesting with flawed heroes, empathetic anti-heroes, interested power-team combinations and all the development that goes into making new heroes, Super-man is the only one whose never really changed. There isn't much you CAN change without making him not Super-man.

He is always the paragon of good and justice and do-good. The only way you can make villains for Super-man is by making them even more powerful and ridiculous.
 

drh1975

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The Black Panther. He's a great character, but his own publisher (Marvel) doesn't have any faith in him. Apparently they don't think being a king, the first black superhero and part of both the Avengers and Fantastic Four are enough to make people like him. So they just had him marry Storm because everyone loves the X-Men, right? Just put the poor bastard out of his misery already.
 

McMarbles

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I really, REALLY can't stand the Punisher. I don't think he adds much of anything to the Marvel universe.
 

Tsukuyomi

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Okay, some points of note for those people who say Superman lacks flaws and whatnot and is invincible.

1: While I'll agree they aren't incredibly obvious flaws and they are not used horribly often or are very interesting, the man does have flaws. One that was touched on was the fact that he can never, biologically, be a father. Kryptonian and Human DNA simply do not mix. End of story.

The more often used flaw is, as with Captain America, his seemingly-outdated code of ethics/honor. Usually it's thrown in with heroes who are more willing to 'roll with the times' so to speak. Typically in the realm of killing a villain that genuinely deserves it. Naturally for the most part these people are proven wrong and Superman wins, blah blah blah. But it is often used. It's also often put in the context of how much control does he, or should he, exert on the populace in the name of protecting them? As they put it in Red Son: "Why don't you just put the whole WORLD in a bottle, Superman?"

2: Kyrptonite aside, it's been proven more than once, typically by Lex Luthor, that the Man of Steel isn't entirely physically invulnerable. I think my favorite scheme of Lex's involved essentially overdosing Superman's cells with Solar Energy. Cell Death set in and while it did take awhile, Superman did die. He's been overwhelmed by sheer force before, the Elite being the best example I can think of, with Kal-El himself being unsure of who might win if it came down to an all-out brawl between himself and them. Others have come close, pushed him to his limits. Captain Marvel is a prime example of this, as the most memorable time those two came to blows, Superman was definitely on the losing end. Green Lantern Rings have been shown as able to replicate the wavelength of Kryptonite easily, and Superboy-Prime actually required help to break free from his prison on Oa, shortly before the Sinestro Corps. War began. Naturally due to the nature of the story no one ever succeeds...unless you count the 90s...but the point stands.

------------------------------

Are these the best things in the world? are they they most compelling flaws and weaknesses? Perhaps not, but it's folly to blatantly declare that the man is invincible and perfect. For as many people that dislike the Man of Steel for those qualities, there have always been writers at DC who have felt somewhat the same and looked for ways to bring him down to earth and allow people to relate to him better and enjoy stories with him more.
 

Leemaster777

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While I'm not in favor of deleting good characters for the sake of simply deleting them... let me ask you people this:

1. For the character I'm about to list, barring the odd instance where an incredibly-contrived plot point calls for it, has his powers ever REALLY been useful?

2. Has he ever been written as a complex, interesting character? Has he ever had a story arc that caused him to grow as a character, other than in really generic ways?

3. Is he, or is he not, one of the most ridiculous characters in all of fiction?

Basically what I'm saying is, would comics be notably weaker if this character never existed? Who, do you ask, am I talking about? Well...


Seriously, has Matter-Eater Lad EVER really been important?
 

DeimosMasque

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Raika said:
trty00 said:
Raika said:
Radelaide said:
the doom cannon said:
I would get rid of Deadpool because he is quite possibly the silliest stupidest "hero" ever.

captcha: karma points

Sweet! Captcha agrees with me!
Fucking Deadpool. I would throw him under a bus with spiked wheels full of fat people. Ugh, his fandom utterly infuriates me when he's just... He's silly.
Toss in my vote for Deadpool as well. He's made me giggle in the past, but he's more likely to make me groan. Eat it, Wade. Aqua Teen Hunger Force isn't fucking funny, and neither are you.
Come on, he's just a joke. What's wrong with jokes?
I love a good joke. That's just it, though: Deadpool isn't a good joke. Hell, an argument could be made that he's a testament to the continued existence of sexism and misogyny in comics. He basically was created(by the worst person in the industry's history, I might add) to replace a similarly off-the-wall character to whom Marvel thought the audience couldn't relate because said character is female.

...also, he's not funny.
Actually Rob Liefeld created him because he wanted to right for Deathstroke but worked for Marvel at the time. Wade=Slade Deadpool=Deathstroke. (Irony of ironies is that Rob now DOES write for Deathstroke)

Years ago I'd agree with your point but every since feminist (and goddess of Comic Book Writing) Gail Simone wrote him he became much better. Daniel Way may never truly get him to the Gail Simone levels of the character but he does a great job of making him at the very least unoffensive.

The problem with Deadpool has been his fans. Most are the leftovers of the 90s-era of "Big Tits and Bigger Guns" fans that changed the entire face of the industry in the 90s. Thus a lot of them come of as obnoxious and annoying and basically make the character seem that way as well.

For every JustSomeRandomGuy, Deadpoolandfriends and MGalusic and Tallest Silver fan video done about Deadpool, there's about 100 idiots who mistake "being an ass" with "being funny and edgy."

His appearances in Hulk vs Wolverine and Marvel vs Capcom 3 are much closer to the way Simone wrote him which was an actually funny character who just happened to kill people for money as a profession.

He's not a perfect character, and I also prefer Simone's revamped version of Deadpool, Agent X. But removal from comics? Nah, lets just castrate his fans.
 

UnmotivatedSlacker

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McMarbles said:
I really, REALLY can't stand the Punisher. I don't think he adds much of anything to the Marvel universe.
As someone who doesn't really like the Punisher as well, I would recommend reading the Punisher Max line if you haven't. I think he works better when he's not in a world filled with super heroes.