Whiny Annoying Emo Effeminate JRPG Characters

[ShankHA32]

People never seem to include Tidus, FF X's protaginist in the super ultra tag team of non-emo FF main chracters. I don't get it. What was so emo about him? Ok yes he was effeminate but that doesn't make him emo by any means. He also had a childhood of neglect by his dad which is enough to make anyone bitchy in childhood.

Towards the end of the game he became a bit angsty but i actually found him almost unrealistically tough. My dad's sin? *sound of it bouncing off of him only to reawaken in the end* The only time he actually went slightly emo is when he found out he was gonna fade and become a dream towards the end of the game. FF X is my fav final fantasy so i am biased but what do you guys think?

Edit: Someone beat me to tidus nooooo....well he never named him so here he is!!!!

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

No reason = Emo
Reason = Depressed

That's amazing. It's just so amazingly amazing.
Anyone who's sad must be a whiney emo. You stubbed your toe? Emo. Someone stole all your gil? Emo. Your dad turned out to be the final boss and you have to kill him in 5 separate stages and then you die too? Emo. Geez, what a whiner.

As to the effeminate males, you have to admit they're pretty much everywhere in Japanese entertainment. That's just the way it is. Some manly men just don't like it when the main character takes to wearing pretty dresses... Cloud.

Are you mocking me or agreeing with me?

 

[Aethelric]

By American standards of masculinity (John Wayne, Clint Eastwood) and especially our video game standards of masculinity (space marines, grizzled WWII paratroopers), there are virtually no masculine, non-emo JRPG characters. I want to blame it on an essential cultural divide, but the bitchinest' guys around, samurai, come from Japan. These are guys who are supposed to kill themselves without making a sound -- for honor.

There's something to be said about the wide female market in Japan and the "animezation" of all forms of their entertaiment. Japanese video game characters are cartoons animated into 3-D, in a drawing style which primarily divides between "male and "female" solely on the presence of scars for the former and breasts for the latter. You could say make similar complaints about overgendification in American media: practically every male lead is built like the Governator in his good years, and every female is a supermodel in the height of her perkiness.

The entire debate is a matter of preference. When something tragic happens to a character, should he respond with sulkiness and depression or with rage and bloody vengeance? Terrible voice acting has created a "Luke Skywalker effect" on many JRPGs, where invariably the voice actor makes everything sound whiny and irritating regardless of the scene's dramatic merit. American voice acting suffers from the "Blondie (Fistful of Dollars) effect", where every line, however mundane, has to be delivered in a subsonic, sandpaper snarl.

Both of these stereotypes have their merits and fanbase, but the ultimate question is this: which do you prefer? I personally find both extremes laughable, but there is, fortunately, an appreciable amount of games from both sides of the Pacific who do not suffer from either these ridiculous archetypes. Let's find, enjoy and celebrate those games, rather than fighting a war over which type of insipid garbage smells better.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Those are simply the popular archetypes for the genre. If you look at western gaming the archetype is the grizzled space marine.

This

 

[Internet Kraken]

Hmm, I dont think there are any emo characters in FF7. You say Cloud but he doesnt actually say anything ever in that game, and with Vincent well... he has a lack of emotion rather than being part of a group that is named after it.

Cloud never says much because he's a traumatized schizophrenic. He's got as much right to be as depressed as Vincent given the amount of shit he's endured. Everything close to him is taken away in some violent act, he has little to no identity so he struggles to find some sort of meaning in his existence, the list goes on. Hell I'd be depressed too if I lost almost everything dear to me.

That doesn't exactly make for a good character.

 

[hopeneverdies]

I think its the cliches that people think of
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
List of console RPG cliches

 

[-Seraph-]

Hmm, I dont think there are any emo characters in FF7. You say Cloud but he doesnt actually say anything ever in that game, and with Vincent well... he has a lack of emotion rather than being part of a group that is named after it.

Cloud never says much because he's a traumatized schizophrenic. He's got as much right to be as depressed as Vincent given the amount of shit he's endured. Everything close to him is taken away in some violent act, he has little to no identity so he struggles to find some sort of meaning in his existence, the list goes on. Hell I'd be depressed too if I lost almost everything dear to me.

That doesn't exactly make for a good character.

Eh I felt sympathy for him and tolerated him. Although I have a great affinity for Zack since he was very human in terms of his character and attitude. He had a full spectrum of emotions that where shown at the appropriate time. Cloud doesn't seem like a good character because he has no true character, like I said, he's a traumatized schizo, he doesn't know who he should be.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I think its the cliches that people think of
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
List of console RPG cliches

Tales of Symphonia follows almost all of those cliches.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Hmm, I dont think there are any emo characters in FF7. You say Cloud but he doesnt actually say anything ever in that game, and with Vincent well... he has a lack of emotion rather than being part of a group that is named after it.

Cloud never says much because he's a traumatized schizophrenic. He's got as much right to be as depressed as Vincent given the amount of shit he's endured. Everything close to him is taken away in some violent act, he has little to no identity so he struggles to find some sort of meaning in his existence, the list goes on. Hell I'd be depressed too if I lost almost everything dear to me.

That doesn't exactly make for a good character.

They're supposed to make up for it with character development. Don't know if they did that with Cloud (haven't played FF7), but it's why I like Emil Castagnier of Tales of Symphonia so much.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Hmm, I dont think there are any emo characters in FF7. You say Cloud but he doesnt actually say anything ever in that game, and with Vincent well... he has a lack of emotion rather than being part of a group that is named after it.

Cloud never says much because he's a traumatized schizophrenic. He's got as much right to be as depressed as Vincent given the amount of shit he's endured. Everything close to him is taken away in some violent act, he has little to no identity so he struggles to find some sort of meaning in his existence, the list goes on. Hell I'd be depressed too if I lost almost everything dear to me.

That doesn't exactly make for a good character.

They're supposed to make up for it with character development. Don't know if they did that with Cloud (haven't played FF7), but it's why I like Emil Castagnier of Tales of Symphonia so much.

I.....completley forgot who that character was.

 

[Fightgarr]

I think ... the only truly ambiguous character in the JRPGs i've ever seen was... Kuja, the main villain of FF9, the guy walks around in a midrift and thong. I think thats why he was so evil... its hard to be taken serious when your dressed like that...

Yes however Kuja is meant as a tongue-in-cheek exaggeration of that stereotype. The characters even say something along the lines of "That's a dude!?"
I like the incredible naive but just character that is Ramza. In fact most people in that game are very well characterized.

 

[Carlston]

Emo was a American term to try and lump the self cutters with goths.
And Jrpg reguardless have better stories, be it same characters (in FF you can interchange the mechanic, unarmed fighter, chainsaw users, lancer, big sword with girl, spunkie teen, depressing guy)

When you get into the FF7 thread, well how else would someone act if they had been injected with magic, barely saved his childhood love, run through by a 10 foot sword and in near death his only friend and inspiration to the military murdered in front of him.

It's just a play on the GI SGT in vietnam gets killed and the kid he saved takes his identity thing. Wise cracking jokes, lame USA action movie quips, and Duke Nukem rip offs of Evil Dead and they Live line don't set a mood, give character depth or development. It's just the swaggering dickspurt (Yeah Ben I know) who doesn't fear anything.


One of the reason WW2 does the Normandy landing alot is to give you a sense of death and looming disaster....in a rpg there needs to be such things as the world about to end, a good friend about to die, a good ally betrayed... and it's ok, long as the cliche progression isn't so eye rollingly sad.

JRPG's tend to mix things up. As US games do what American tv, movies and comics do...the expected, safe cliche, lowest common denominator cater BS that destroyed well....US games, movies, books, comics, ect.

If it is new and edgy don't do it, but same time make it safe and wrapped in cliche goodness and say it's Extreame, edgy ect.

Look at a movie, if a review says it's "Smart and funny" it means its stupid, baddly written rehash of the last ten "Smart and funny" movies just like it.

I was more against FF8 and Squall cause all he did was say "..." and that means nothing to me...silence, a hurm...a glare...
Then when they were all Orphans, the cliche vomit meter pegged out and I lost intrest and finished the game almost 7 years later when my wife bugged me to finish the story she loved.

As well, I noticed a turn based combat basher.... hey its a rpg. Just cause you and Shirohen fireballs in streetfighter doesn't make you a better rpg player nor should it make you a stronger fighter in a rpg. Rpg is story not lamer combos. And so far the only rpg that make real time and turn based any good was Fallout 3's target system...but still... I used it more than the "real time" because in such games of stratigy real time means the computer can do everything all at once and your dead because it just did your fireball combo 10 times on 60 enemies before you pushed forward on the stick.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I think its the cliches that people think of
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
List of console RPG cliches

Tales of Symphonia follows almost all of those cliches.

36 out of 192 ain't bad, I guess.

Spoiler

Sleepyhead (with a twist), Logan's Run, Single Parent, Compulsories, Garrett's Principle, Hey I Know You 3, MacGuyver Rule, Indestructible Weapon, Bed Bed Bed, Fake Ending, Zelda's Axiom, Fargo Rule (Summon Spirits, at least), Zeigfried's Contradiction, American Express, Apathy Principle, Third Law of Travel, Fifth Law of Travel, Big Joe Rule, Xenobiology Rule, Dungeon Design 102, Edison's Lament, Franklin Covey Was Wrong, Selective Invulnerability Principle, Perversity Principle, Wutai Rule, The Miracle of Automation, All is Forgiven (except once), Second Law of Fashion, Pinch Hitter, Thank You For Pressing the Self Destruct Button (sort of), Falling Rule, Phoenix Down, Sephiroth Memorial Escape Clause, All the Time in the World, Lynx Rule (sort of), Andross True Form rule.

I.....completley forgot who that character was.

He was in the sequel.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

meh US charatcer archetypes are either over sexed or over muscled, androgynous personality wise and I mean lack there of not being gender specific, JP charatcer archetypes tend to be whiny(as in to much energy to little brain power) noobs(as in fresh from the farm) of some sort, also there is a general age difference with JP tries to focus on tween(12-2X) people who are more naturally emoy/whiny while the west obsess on older(2X-30) characters who lack personality..... and why in the hell are not the obsessive drunks who ***** about their relationships and exs and life while grabing all the ass they can not considered emo?

As far as androgynous designs go...if you bother to look at Asian culture its no worse than the Wests obsession with older(25+) drunken skirt chasers.....

If its a game the gamepaly comes before all else FF4/6/9 are the best of both story and gameplay, 8/10/12 might have better dialog but the gameplay and characters SUCK......

 

[Therumancer]

So yes, the grizzled Space Marine is going to become just as annoying, and is to some people already, but honestly I don't think the (serious) hyper-macho stereotype has been around in modern gaming long enough to become as annoying as the emotional childlike over enthusiasm, or wrist-slitting "so cool to be miserable" emo.

I suppose that it depends on your background as to how you categorise the characters. My example was an extreme caricature that probably only Duke Nukem lives up to. I suppose that there is some axis of acceptable manly movie heroes to copy that goes from Han Solo to Conan. The Japanese didn't hear about this and still think that Luke Skywalker is an acceptable character template.

I can't really say what sort of tolerance people will have for certain things. I'm sure that as long as there are 14 year old boys with hormones raging through their bodies who are concerned about their masculinity that there will be a market for hyper masculine characters. Girls will carry on liking brooding "mother me" characters who care about their hair style. Hopefully some people will like less extreme characters and maybe some of them will like enthusiastic characters.

I agree more or less. However I don't think it takes a 14 year old to appreciate the hyper macho heroes. I think that's just manly in general, and is showing instincts that society mostly tells us to repress. As far as women go, well there are plenty of them out there that are into the whole "bad boy" thing, and for a lot of them that bad boy is a Hell's Angels brawler type or whatever than a James Dean pretty boy.

As far as Luke Skywalker goes, well it's not a bad template overall, I mean the whole storyline was done as a sort of fairy tale in Star Wars starting with "A long, long time ago". He's basically just "the boy done well" reincarnated in a science fantasy setting. All of the Star Wars characters fit some pretty classic archetypes and I feel it was intended.

I think the problem is the trappings they tack onto that. I mean I can deal with progressing from a farmboy to an OMFG Jedi Master who single handedly saves the galaxy (especially in an RPG). The thing is though that Luke for example fit a middle ground, he didn't go running around with the hair brained enthusiasm of say Rush, or sitting around wallowing in his own Angst. I guess to an extent he represents more of an ideal of the kind of character they SHOULD be writing.

Extreme personalities DO work in some forms of media, for example in some anime having some naive cute girl running around in an embarssing costume screaming how she fights for love and justice with a sort of infectious low-IQ enthusiasm can be quite amusing in doses. However it does not nessicarly translate to RPG games too well, and when your dealing with a game that might last 40-100 hours of playtime it becomes an issue. I think this is in part what the Japanese miss about the American audience. It's fine if in a 13 hour Anime series (26 episodes) the characters are fairly stereotypical and don't change much through the storyline (although they can evolve personality wise, it's relatively rare). It's another to see a one dimensional schtick repeted for 40-100 hours.

Also as ironic as this might sound, I think gender plays a role as well. A certain style of youthful enthusiasm coming from a girl (please note I say girl, not woman) can be entertaining. Use a guy for the same thing and it can rapidly become disturbing or annoying.

>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[McBurks]

Also, maybe the main character from tales of Vesperia.

Tell me about it, first time I saw the cover for Visperia I told my friend hey look they finally made a female the main character,then find out its actually a dude. >.<

 

[McBurks]

I don't understand how being emo = effeminate.MEN HAVE FEELINGS TOO!

 

[-Seraph-]

I don't understand how being emo = effeminate.MEN HAVE FEELINGS TOO!

Because showing any emotion that does not include macho, anger, and toughness is a cardinal sin.

 

[roastbeefy]

This Is one of the reasons I like Chrono Trigger, I find all the characters likeable. Some may say Magus looks emo, to which I say he was a dark wizard, so It just matches his style. Also, characters were made by the guy who made Dragonball, (Akira Toriyama) which is one of the reasons I think they seem less emo than other characters.

Also, Sephiroth isn't emo, he's just really, really, really pissed off.