Whiny Annoying Emo Effeminate JRPG Characters

[SharPhoe]

[
Anyway, I haven't played enough JRPGs to notice a trend in characterization.
But I've played just enough to realize that I hate turn-based combat.

On the bright side, at least your opinion is informed, unlike most people's.

 

[whiskey_hicks]

To say little I will flat out admit, yes, the stereotype about JRPGs started because of Final Fantasy 7 and 8, at least for me. Not so much 7 though, I will admit I liked 7, Cloud was a character I felt for over time, Sephiroth was a person I would eventually despise (even more so as he was personified with pretty boy features in animated feature). As for Vincent I found him rather unnecessary and once he was collected I put him with Cait Sith and Yuffie in the "characters I don't give a rats ass about" section.

For me the characters Cid and Barret helped me enjoy Final Fantasy Seven, they were characters I enjoyed and used frequently. But after Seven came Eight and honestly I just couldn't find a saving grace after that for the Final Fantasy series. Like any RPG a player must like it's characters to play the game, I sadly liked very few characters in most recent JRPGs to keep playing.

Final Fantasy 8- I didn't like Squall at all. Hotdog guy was pretty awesome though, not worth playing for him though. Laguna sequences pissed me off.
Final Fantasy 9- Zidane wasn't a fresh enough idea to allow me to enjoy. Didn't like the princess either. Kuja made me turn off the game.
Final Fantasy X- Couldn't feel for Tidus, needed more Wakka.

After 3 tries I just figured Final Fantasy was not meant for me anymore. So I went for a tales game on the Gamecube and while I found Lloyd to be awesome I found no one else enjoyable and felt Kratos could go to hell. Also the whole storyline of "Girl travels to attain power and then sacrifices self" was to reminiscent of X.

I also tried Kingdom Hearts 1/2 and while I enjoyed hanging with Goofy and Donald I didn't like Sora as a main character and I especially didn't like Riku. And the entire evil organization of the second one just made me groan at the realization that most of them were in it because they didn't have a heart.

In the end I will not say I hate JRPGs characters because there are many I enjoy, and particularly my favorite JRPG character of all time was the whiniest person ever. However I will also say that chances are my tastes just changed suddenly after Final Fantasy 7 which caused me to dislike 8 and onward.

Honestly I will flat out admit that I actually enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics' Characters and Story much better then Final Fantasy Seven, and even admired the main character more. I also really liked Xenogears... not a really big fan of Xenosaga though.

Eh, take it anyway you want it. Point is I do my best to see each game as something different and try my best not to lump them all into one category. But sometimes it is rather easy to.

Also is it really my fault that I don't like "bishounen"? Come on! Not all men can be mistaken for flat women.

 

[Straitjacketeering]

If you want stupid character names, I have two words for you - Dingo Egret.

It's.... DIIINNGOO...

 

[WillSimplyBe]

Alright, now that I've got your attention, I just was reading some threads and it got me to thinking...

Now this isn't an attack on anyone, but it appears that all the people who go on about hating JRPGs on this site... dont have a freaking clue what the hell they are talking about, lol.

I stopped reading there because that is where I lost all respect for your opinion, "lol."

Anyway, I haven't played enough JRPGs to notice a trend in characterization.
But I've played just enough to realize that I hate turn-based combat.

You can keep your snide comments to yourself, thank you very much.

Seriously though, I don't use leet-speak or whatever it is called, but because I do play some online games, I occasionally pepper my typed conversations with "lol" or the occasional "xD" or "^_^" in my responses. You'll see in the rest of my post, I use good grammar, and I think you are in danger of being a grammar Nazi for calling me over something so trivial.

If you are just going to talk about the fact that I used "lol", then please don't bother even replying.

 

[WillSimplyBe]

You can keep your snide comments to yourself, thank you very much.

I really, really can't.
Anyway, don't take it so personally. "Lol" is just a pet peeve.

And I was only telling the truth.
I still answered the question...I think.

Actually, I wasn't intending to just encompass you, but others who had done the same thing without writing anything else except "rage-quitting" after I said "lol".

 

[Legion]

*snip*

The reason? Yahtzee.

The same reason everyone all of a sudden hates Halo, despite the fact it's an extremely popular game series.

The same reason everyone talks about the Dom/Maria sub-plot being stupid in Gears of War 2 despite the fact it has very little to do with the overall story.

Of course a lot of people have valid, and reasonable reasons for their opinions, but the amount of times I have seen people criticise a game almost word-for-word from a Zero Punctuation leads me to think that a lot of it comes from ZP fanboy/girls.

 

[juliett_lima]

Replying to this without reading the whole thread buuuuut...

I totally agree. However, there remains the main issue where the industry markets these characters in a way to APPEAL to the angsty emo kids - prime example, look at the difference between Cloud from FF7, and Cloud from Advent Children/all other FF7 brand titles. Cloud used to be kickass! Let's mosey! Now he sits in the corner cutting himself and disappointing Tifa sexually.

GOOD examples of JRPG characters (and I'm going FF all the way here, soz) are Edgar and Sabin from FF6, Selphie from FF8, ALL the characters from FF9 (the angsty emo was the BAD GUY - Kuja)

I'm not going to mention 10 because Tidus was just a preppy american teenager - I'd imagine he was much cooler in the Japanese dub. Although we had Riku ^^

Kingdom Hearts as well was full of awesome awesome characters, none of whom were anything LIKE the stereotype.

woo!

 

[Legion]

Actually, I wasn't intending to just encompass you, but others who had done the same thing without writing anything else except "rage-quitting" after I said "lol".

In that case, I was probably the one taking things personally.
To be fair, I am exhausted and my eyes itch.

*snip*

*snip*

The Jonas(?) Brothers are extremely popular.
You know?

Also, I hated Halo way before Yahtzee.
The copycat.

I am not disagreeing with you, The point I was making is that an extremely popular game series suddenly becomes public enemy no.1 as soon as Yahtzee criticises it.

Also my last paragraph was my disclaimer on not everyone hating it because of ZP, just the ones who vocalise it every 10 seconds on these forums.

 

[WillSimplyBe]

*snip*

The reason? Yahtzee.

The same reason everyone all of a sudden hates Halo, despite the fact it's an extremely popular game series.

The same reason everyone talks about the Dom/Maria sub-plot being stupid in Gears of War 2 despite the fact it has very little to do with the overall story.

Of course a lot of people have valid, and reasonable reasons for their opinions, but the amount of times I have seen people criticise a game almost word-for-word from a Zero Punctuation leads me to think that a lot of it comes from ZP fanboy/girls.

Yahtzee.... WRONG?!?!?! ITS NOT ....POSSIBLE!!! *head explodes*

xD(watch out, he's using texticons!)

Yeah, I figured it seemed to become cool to hate things when he does for some reason.

Replying to this without reading the whole thread buuuuut...

I totally agree. However, there remains the main issue where the industry markets these characters in a way to APPEAL to the angsty emo kids - prime example, look at the difference between Cloud from FF7, and Cloud from Advent Children/all other FF7 brand titles. Cloud used to be kickass! Let's mosey! Now he sits in the corner cutting himself and disappointing Tifa sexually.

GOOD examples of JRPG characters (and I'm going FF all the way here, soz) are Edgar and Sabin from FF6, Selphie from FF8, ALL the characters from FF9 (the angsty emo was the BAD GUY - Kuja)

I'm not going to mention 10 because Tidus was just a preppy american teenager - I'd imagine he was much cooler in the Japanese dub. Although we had Riku ^^

Kingdom Hearts as well was full of awesome awesome characters, none of whom were anything LIKE the stereotype.

woo!

Well thank you for reading my original post. I also find it difficult to go through more than 2 or 3 pages of thread without just skipping to the last page and responding. I think a lot of the mainstream haters have never heard of an RPG before FF7, and from even my own personal questioning, many people I've gotten to talk with have never even played FF6 at all, or any Final Fantasy before 7, for that matter. People are really missing out on a great gem in 6.

Also, I just want to say I have no problem with Turn Based Combat systems, for some of those who might have misunderstood my answers to some of those who said all RPGs are turn based and slow. I personally have no problem with it, but I know people as well who would absolutely love it if it were just a book, or had a more frantic fighting pace. However, ever since the Super Nintendo, there have been real time battle systems. Tales of Phantasia (First ever tales game) Had the FAR-before-it's-time Linear Battle System, and Star Ocean(original game, AKA First Departure) had a battle system completely unique.

 

[Ushario]

I would rarely call JRPG characters emo.

The word that generally springs to mind is sissies. The male characters often look like pre-pubescent girls and the female characters tend to be under dressed vapid school girls.
That is at first look, turns out the girly man is actually a hulking hero and the vapid lingerie wearing school girl is a complex and mature ...more stereotypes here

Aside from that the combat tends to be horribly repetitive, where all you'd really like is to smash some bad guys before getting to the next part in a story. A large part of game time is often spent running through zones and battling random monsters.

Turn based is fine but 10,000 random encounters later I won't be playing your game.

That is frustrating, boring and killing the genre. Not all JRPGs do this but in my experience most do. The Final Fantasy series being one of the worst.

 

[WillSimplyBe]

I would rarely call JRPG characters emo.

The word that generally springs to mind is sissies. The male characters often look like pre-pubescent girls and the female characters tend to be under dressed vapid school girls.
That is at first look, turns out the girly man is actually a hulking hero and the vapid lingerie wearing school girl is a complex and mature ...more stereotypes here

Aside from that the combat tends to be horribly repetitive, where all you'd really like is to smash some bad guys before getting to the next part in a story. A large part of game time is often spent running through zones and battling random monsters.

Turn based is fine but 10,000 random encounters later I won't be playing your game.

That is frustrating, boring and killing the genre. Not all JRPGs do this but in my experience most do. The Final Fantasy series being one of the worst.

I might be inclined to believe you did not read my Original Post argument.

Anyway, RPGs are slowly turning in the stream of time, becoming more and more action oriented, or atleast trying to. Some have always been action oriented *refers to his previous post* and others are making changes. A while ago, Final Fantasy's ATB(active time battle system) was cutting edge. In 12, they had a combat system that, to me at least, was somewhat reminiscent of Final Fantasy 11. Not quite fast-paced, but Real time, and without any random encounters whatsoever. 13 will also be an improvement. Also, not all Turn Based Battle systems are boring. I want to thank the person who first brought up Baten Kaitos, a turn based RPG where you have to set up huge combos and defenses for your characters of maybe 7 hits long in about 4 seconds. Let me tell you, that was one of the most frantic battle systems I have ever played.

While things are progressing onward, there will always be, however, a market of people who are fine with the turn based battle systems. People who like turn based strategy games, people who play the pokemon games, people who play early Final Fantasy games. Some people enjoy the battle system, but there are growing alternatives for those who do not.

 

[Iron Mal]

Here's the thing, if you like a particular game then it shouldn't matter to you if other people don't like it for think the protaganists are whiney emos etc. (everyone's entitled to their opinion, JRPG fans, JRPG haters, those of us who don't care...even little Timmy is allowed to make his opinion known).

If you like JRPG's then feel free to play them to your heart's content and enjoy them (just don't push it on the rest of us), if you hate JRPG's then feel free to avoid them like the plague (just don't try to force you ideas onto others).

This is honestly just a matter of personal preference.

 

[Fritzvalt]

I don't know if I would say most JRPG characters are overly emo, though there certainly are more than a few. You have Tidus constantly crying over Daddy in one corner. Kaim constantly brooding over his thousands of years of misfortune (Though he is very much justified), and then there's the whole Kingdom Hearts fiasco. I am a bit sad on the latter, as I would have loved to see Donald Duck crying in the corner sawing into hs wrists, but that's neither here nor there.

I will say the the characters are very effeminate, however. Not always in attitude, mind you, but always physically a wee bit fancy. It's kinda this weird Japanese idea about the heros being young, and often children. In a lot of games they actually own up to it. Look at the Mother series (Great bunch of games); the heros were always tots. Same goes for Pokemon and the aforementioned "Kingdom Hearts fiasco." It's not really a bad thing. In the west we tend to glorify "Manliness," and the wisdom that comes from age, so we get a much older, more rugged stereotypical hero. Our Japanese friends, however, want their heros to be more of a reflection of their younger days. Stories are often about exploring the world through the eyes of a child or discovering a brave new world filled with awe. Needless to say, both have their times and places.

I'm not anti-JRPG, mind you, and I'm certainly not new to it's world. Their linear nature has always bugged me, though. It's a great story, but often I just want to create my own, and that's truely where the more western games shine.

Now there are numerous JRPG gems that don't suffer from this stereotype. My favorite being Xenogears on the old PS. Lead was effectively masculine (Killed crap with his hands... and just his hands), and eventually goes super crazy. Crazy to a point where you look at FFVII and realize that Cloud is just sooo whiney. He really doesn't whine about it afterward either. They just, kinda.... kill God.... as they're want to do. Infact, the only person who ever really gets whiney is horribly disfigured, lives in a sewer.... in jail.... and is made to fight other inmates for no real reason. You later learn that he really could have left at anytime but his life is so darn depressing that it's cartoonish, so it's just kinda funny when he cries like a woman... plus I hated him.

 

[juliett_lima]

While things are progressing onward, there will always be, however, a market of people who are fine with the turn based battle systems. People who like turn based strategy games, people who play the pokemon games, people who play early Final Fantasy games. Some people enjoy the battle system, but there are growing alternatives for those who do not.

again, agreed.

there are always updates to the battle system to try and make it more appealing to the current generation of gamers - FF3&4's recent releases updated the battle system to make it more familiar, whilst FF10 tried the weird turn-based thingy over the ATB.

It's a little early on to start saying majorly negative things about the battle systems for JRPG's - they've only recently become Majorly popular, and the industry is still testing the water with what makes people tick - give it 5 years or so and you'll be seeing new, exciting stuff.

I didn't play it (and I'm going off-topic here), but what did people think of the battle system in the PSP FF7 game? the one with Zacks?


EDIT:

Here's the thing, if you like a particular game then it shouldn't matter to you if other people don't like it for think the protaganists are whiney emos etc. (everyone's entitled to their opinion, JRPG fans, JRPG haters, those of us who don't care...even little Timmy is allowed to make his opinion known).

If you like JRPG's then feel free to play them to your heart's content and enjoy them (just don't push it on the rest of us), if you hate JRPG's then feel free to avoid them like the plague (just don't try to force you ideas onto others).

This is honestly just a matter of personal preference.

if everyone agreed to keep their opinions to themselves there would never be any kind of discussion or discourse, and we'd never find out about anything. Kind of lame, no?

 

[NeutralDrow]

Here's the thing, if you like a particular game then it shouldn't matter to you if other people don't like it for think the protaganists are whiney emos etc. (everyone's entitled to their opinion, JRPG fans, JRPG haters, those of us who don't care...even little Timmy is allowed to make his opinion known).

If you like JRPG's then feel free to play them to your heart's content and enjoy them (just don't push it on the rest of us), if you hate JRPG's then feel free to avoid them like the plague (just don't try to force you ideas onto others).

This is honestly just a matter of personal preference.

But what about when those opinions are based on non-universal aspects of a genre? Games are a matter of personal preference, but it's hard not to take offense when games from a genre you like are bashed for features they don't possess, simply because the original games had them.

It's why I feel like a broken record every time people say they hate JRPGs for turn-based combat and random encounters, when having both is pretty much a relic of Final Fantasy and Pokemon. Most of the games I can think of recently let you see the encounters comings, and certain great game series have real-time combat.