WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[Use_Imagination_here]

Comic was funny as hell, a little bit offensive ("Zimmerman mode"? Really?) but it had a point that I agree with so whatevs.

Watching this thread just on the BRINK of a shitstorm has been more funny though. Don't let the haters get ya down Carta'.

 

[Abomination]

To use your fast-food worker as an analogy. It would be like a fast food worker's opinion of how accountants can be mistreated in accountancy firms holding more value than an accountant's because a fast-food worker is more likely to be mistreated than an accountant in their respective work places. But we're not talking about in workplaces overall, we are talking about if accountants can and are mistreated AT ALL in their specific workplace.

I like that the black role is filled by the fast food worker and the white role is filled by the accountant.

The comparison is astute as it is difficult to picture a person employed in fast-food as receiving higher payment than an accountant employed in an accountancy role. We are not disputing who has it better or worse overall but if someone has it bad in a certain area or not.

It wasn't even intentional but I'm certain you can see how the financial situations of accountants and the difficulties faced by white people on average are comparable to the financial situations of fast-food workers and the difficulties faced by black people on average... but I must enforce that it is NOT the topic being discussed.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Grey Carter is a pretender who guilt trips others, to hypocritically moralize about what he is not.

He is a man, but his comic persona is a sassy gamer girl who sticks it to male chauvinism: one has no right to call himself a feminist, when life will never burn him with it. He is white, and now goes after white priviledge: as if he wasn't another privileged white man enjoying his status.

There's no worse hypocrite than those who push about what is right, without ever feeling the fallout from it, without ever changing anything but talk.

Okay look what?

Your argument seems to be that you're not allowed to comment or criticize any of the actions of a group if you belong to that group, and that you need to personally experience things before you're ALLOWED to talk about them. How can you not see this as anything but nonsense?

And that the former SOMEHOW makes you a hypocrite. That leaves me confused as to whether or not you know what "hypocrite" means, seeing as how that would only apply if he PARTICIPATED in chauvinism and white privilege. Are you implying all white men are chauvinistic towards women? Because that's the only way what you just said makes sense.

And yes, one has a right to call himself a feminist even if he is male, what an utterly absurd comment.

Grey Carter is a pretender who guilt trips others

No I'm fairly sure he's a comic strip artist who made a joke. And I'm fairly sure you're over reacting, in a completely unnecessary and offending way.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I didn't think the comic was anything special, but damn that's a lot of posts in one day. XD I'm assuming there's a large amount of butthurt going on. CBA to read any of the comments.

 

[The Wooster]

On an actual serious note: never understood the needless complexity of the argument regarding character race. There's no need for anything more complex than "we wanted him to be white". The author, not the reader, chooses his characters. Changing a character's race, gender or what have you under pressure to appease group X is just as bad as anything else. I always find myself asking; if it doesn't matter that the main character is X or Y (in this case white or black) why can't he remain X then? It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Your dedication to artistic autonomy is admirable. Does it extend to every aspect of a game?

You're absolutely right, of course. Creators can make whatever they like, but that shouldn't and won't stop critics from looking at the decisions they've made, from the mechanics to the casting/character design, and asking questions. I see a lot of developers defaulting to the white, 30-something, handsome-yet-grizzled dude, these days and, frankly, it's boring. I suspect many would agree with me. I don't think these characters are designed to mesh with some great artistic vision. In fact; I think their presence quite often signifies the opposite; a complete lack of vision on the creator's part. So yes, I'd rather see some (some, not all) writers come out of their comfort zones and write characters that differ from the norm, be that in terms of race, gender, sexuality, species, etc.

 

[Abomination]

The comparison is astute as it is difficult to picture a person employed in fast-food as receiving higher payment than an accountant employed in an accountancy role. We are not disputing who has it better or worse overall but if someone has it bad in a certain area or not.

It wasn't even intentional but I'm certain you can see how the financial situations of accountants and the difficulties faced by white people on average are comparable to the financial situations of fast-food workers and the difficulties faced by black people on average... but I must enforce that it is NOT the topic being discussed.

I got your point. Did you get mine?

There's a pretty blatant implication in your analogy that white people are naturally going to be found doing intellectual work and black people are naturally going to be found doing menial labor.

You could have, for instance, compared the fast food worker to a janitor to make the same point. You made a thoughtless assumption about where black people are supposed to fit in the hierarchy, and where white people fit in relation to them. Black people = menial blue collar work, white people = middle/upper class intellectual white collar work.

I'm not saying you did it on purpose. I am pointing out that you did do it though.

Thoughtless assumptions about where members of each race are supposed to be in our society is very much at the heart of this issue. It's the whole reason why black protagonists are rare. Black people are fine as sidekicks, but ask for one as a protagonist and suddenly people are yelling at you for 'pandering' and trying to force people to be 'PC'. Asking somebody to question their assumptions about where the races are 'meant' to be in relation to one another is met not with discussion, but with hyperdefensive posturing and attempts to vilify each other, which turns into the ridiculous circular hatefest you see in the last twenty pages or so.

I think it was because I didn't want to disregard that the fast food worker does have it worse - in general - than the accountant in this scenario. I was attempting to establish something comparable in relation to the black-white race discrimination.

If I had gone with the janitor approach I'm certain someone, somewhere, would have complained that the comparison between the situations of black and white people is not the same as between fast food workers and janitors as they are both essentially on an even playing field.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Essentially, everyone faces discrimination in one way or another, and to deny that for one group is to embrace that very discrimination against that group. Essentially disproving the very stance the person is taking by the fact they are taking it. A terrible irony yet one that seems to be embraced in earnest with this very subject.

 

[Overquoted]

Who says it is being compared to anything? Are you attempting to appeal to worst circumstances as an excuse for it happening? Something negative is negative regardless of what is happening in other locations. If you wish to debate proportionate suffering between the discrimination or oppression other races/genders suffer in comparison to white males that's a different topic.

But again, you are saying that a white male's opinion on if white men are being discriminated against in a certain area is worth LESS than a black man's because a black man is discriminated against more in OTHER areas.

To use your fast-food worker as an analogy. It would be like a fast food worker's opinion of how accountants can be mistreated in accountancy firms holding more value than an accountant's because a fast-food worker is more likely to be mistreated than an accountant in their respective work places. But we're not talking about in workplaces overall, we are talking about if accountants can and are mistreated AT ALL in their specific workplace.

That's not using my analogy. But sure, let's run with that. One of those is an across-the-board mistreatment of workers (think coal miners and garment workers in the early 20th century). The other is specific to a single company (or a handful). Guess which one gets correct by law and which one gets corrected by lawsuit?

Two groups protest. One is a group with a large, vast experience of mistreatment. The other is a group with a handful of instance of mistreatment. Which one is systematic and which one is not? Discrimination is systematic. That's what you and so many others seem to miss. It's not tiny little instances that don't affect your life beyond making you feel, temporarily, angry. The moment you walk away from the forum, your troubles end. You aren't being discriminated against. This comic was not, in fact, making fun of all white men.

Unless, of course, you think all white men would have your reaction. And no, they don't. My friend just saw a fraction of this forum and the comic and thought it was hilarious. His words exactly, "Whine some more." But I'm more polite than he is.

To help you understand discrimination better: an employer hates redheads. He won't hire them. Is this discrimination? Sure. Does it compare to discrimination against blondes who get the same reaction from many employers? No. Why? Because it's one employer. Almost every other employer has no problem with redheads. Many even prefer them. Redheads are, in fact, more likely to be employers than blondes or brunettes. But in response to this one employer, a massive protest emerges over discrimination against redheads. Meanwhile, blondes suffer high unemployment and low wages. But these same redheads aren't protesting that, not at all.

So when you and others like you scream about discrimination, it reeks of self-righteous and self-interested diversion. You do not have a moral weight behind you because, frankly, you don't actually care about discrimination. If you did, you wouldn't be protesting this because, even if it were discrimination, you'd recognize how little impact it has in the real world and you'd be going after bigger issues.

How does this relate in any way as to IF white males are discriminated against? Nobody is saying that white men have it worse in other areas.

We aren't talking about other areas. We are talking about in race and gender debates where a while male's opinion is discriminated against.

And you're doing it right now.

Have you been discriminated against, ever? Are you complaining on the internet that people discount your opinion about discrimination (which is discrimination according to you) when you have no experience of actual discrimination? Your opinion doesn't matter as much specifically because the kind of discrimination you talk about isn't discrimination. A comic making fun of a specific kind of person, like you, isn't discrimination. A comic making fun of a woman who complains that men don't pay for dinner anymore and that women aren't treated equally would also not fall under the heading of sexism (unless it was tagged "This is every woman, ever.").

And me, giving your opinion less weight because you haven't given me a single, solitary instance of discrimination (beyond me not valuing your opinion much - which is really a cause/effect issue), is not discrimination. To use my fast food worker analogy, you ain't worked under the conditions so you don't know what you're talking about. Go into the kitchen first, then come back and tell me what it was like. I will give your opinion more weight then.

Meanwhile, I assume a lot, if not most, black people have experienced it. Because I've seen it happen, because I see the results of systematic discrimination, because I've yet to meet any black person in real life who can't think of a dozen instances off the top of their head.

 

[Filiecs]

The comic was hilarious.

If Carter was seriously trying to make a point, though, he completely shot himself in the foot. Comics that rely on exaggeration and hyperbole are one of the worst ways to try and get a point across.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to take this comic seriously because, just like with many jokes, humor doesn't have to be TRUE to still be funny.

 

[Abomination]

That's not using my analogy. But sure, let's run with that. One of those is an across-the-board mistreatment of workers (think coal miners and garment workers in the early 20th century). The other is specific to a single company (or a handful). Guess which one gets correct by law and which one gets corrected by lawsuit?

Irrelevant, how something is handled has nothing to do with this discussion. It is about if something is happening at all.

Two groups protest. One is a group with a large, vast experience of mistreatment. The other is a group with a handful of instance of mistreatment. Which one is systematic and which one is not? Discrimination is systematic. That's what you and so many others seem to miss. It's not tiny little instances that don't affect your life beyond making you feel, temporarily, angry. The moment you walk away from the forum, your troubles end. You aren't being discriminated against. This comic was not, in fact, making fun of all white men.

Irrelevant, it is still discriminating against a group for holding an opinion in an area on account of them being white and male. Systematic or not, it's still discrimination.

Unless, of course, you think all white men would have your reaction. And no, they don't. My friend just saw a fraction of this forum and the comic and thought it was hilarious. His words exactly, "Whine some more." But I'm more polite than he is.

Irrelevant, an individual's opinion on the situation is not evidence that someone is or is not being discriminated against. If he does not hold the views of the group being discriminated against then not caring for their plight is not an unreasonable stance for him to take... but that doesn't prove no discrimination is taking place.

To help you understand discrimination better: an employer hates redheads. He won't hire them. Is this discrimination? Sure. Does it compare to discrimination against blondes who get the same reaction from many employers? No. Why? Because it's one employer. Almost every other employer has no problem with redheads. Many even prefer them. Redheads are, in fact, more likely to be employers than blondes or brunettes. But in response to this one employer, a massive protest emerges over discrimination against redheads. Meanwhile, blondes suffer high unemployment and low wages. But these same redheads aren't protesting that, not at all.

Irrelevant, in that instance the redheads are still being discriminated against. Just because it is potentially happening to a different, larger group in a more extreme fashion does not change the fact that discrimination is occurring.

So when you and others like you scream about discrimination, it reeks of self-righteous and self-interested diversion. You do not have a moral weight behind you because, frankly, you don't actually care about discrimination. If you did, you wouldn't be protesting this because, even if it were discrimination, you'd recognize how little impact it has in the real world and you'd be going after bigger issues.

Down right false. I can care about this discrimination and every other discrimination. Just because worse things are happening to other people in other areas does not mean that I must ignore discrimination in an area directly related to my gender and race. To insist I do is in itself discrimination. I have no right to raise concerns because they're not as bad as other people? That is absurd.

How does this relate in any way as to IF white males are discriminated against? Nobody is saying that white men have it worse in other areas.

We aren't talking about other areas. We are talking about in race and gender debates where a while male's opinion is discriminated against.

And you're doing it right now.

Have you been discriminated against, ever?

Yes. Of course I have. I have been physically assaulted because of my race and had I been female it wouldn't have happened. But does someone need to have been discriminated in order to identify it?

Are you complaining on the internet that people discount your opinion about discrimination (which is discrimination according to you) when you have no experience of actual discrimination?

They're doing it because of my race and gender... that is textbook discrimination.

Your opinion doesn't matter as much specifically because the kind of discrimination you talk about isn't discrimination.

Yes it is. The fact that you do not consider it discrimination is ALSO discrimination.

A comic making fun of a specific kind of person, like you, isn't discrimination.

That is fucking absurd. A person like me how? White and male?

A comic making fun of a woman who complains that men don't pay for dinner anymore and that women aren't treated equally would also not fall under the heading of sexism (unless it was tagged "This is every woman, ever.").

No, that would be targeting feminist hypocrites. Yet the comic is making fun of how the opinion that the concerns of white males, who believe they are being discriminated against when it comes to the simple discussion of race and gender, should be disregarded because they are both white and male.

And me, giving your opinion less weight because you haven't given me a single, solitary instance of discrimination

Which you assume because I'm white and male... another example of the very discrimination you are claiming doesn't happen or exist.

(beyond me not valuing your opinion much - which is really a cause/effect issue), is not discrimination.

Except it is... for if I was to state that I was black you WOULD give my opinion more weight because you assume a black person HAS suffered discrimination... yet the idea that a white male has suffered discrimination is apparently an alien concept to you.

To use my fast food worker analogy, you ain't worked under the conditions so you don't know what you're talking about. Go into the kitchen first, then come back and tell me what it was like. I will give your opinion more weight then.

So you assume that because I am white I haven't ever been in a scenario like that? That by default it doesn't happen to white males? You can not see how that is discrimination in the slightest?

Meanwhile, I assume a lot, if not most, black people have experienced it. Because I've seen it happen, because I see the results of systematic discrimination, because I've yet to meet any black person in real life who can't think of a dozen instances off the top of their head.

And so the opinion of a black man is more valuable to you than the opinion on a white man. Congratulations, that's discrimination.

 

[Abomination]

If I had gone with the janitor approach I'm certain someone, somewhere, would have complained that the comparison between the situations of black and white people is not the same as between fast food workers and janitors as they are both essentially on an even playing field.

Actually, most janitors have better pay and better benefits than fast food workers do, which is why I picked that particular occupation. It makes the same point about disparity without reinforcing that one class of people is inherently better than the other - because, like you say, they seem to be on the same playing field.

In any case, it's not about being damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's about alerting you to your own automatic biases. Hopefully that will ignite a spark of introspection.

Hold on. Are you saying that because I'm white I couldn't tell that a fast food worker and a janitor receive a slightly different amount of pay on average?

I mean you are really clutching at straws here because I used a more extreme example of job disparity rather than a potential lesser one. You also assume I consider accountants a "better class of people" than fast-food workers? Why would you assume I hold that view?

It had nothing to do with being a better class of person, it had everything to do with one being - on average - better off (not better) than the other group.

Like I said, damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Serves me right for trying to discuss something in relation to gender or race when I'm a white man.

 

[I.Muir]

I'm so white right now
Makes you wonder if having a well balanced personality is even possible
(sarcasm)

 

[Abomination]

I never mentioned your race. I did mention your biases. But biases exist irrespective of race.

Your chosen example contrasted a low-wage, menial service position (what we call blue-collar work), with a high-paying, intellectual occupation (what we call white-collar work). You automatically associated black people with the blue collar position and the white people with the white collar position.

Whether you want to admit it or not there are set social norms that you associate with certain people and positions. People in white collar jobs are implied to be more respectable and better educated than people in blue collar jobs. By choosing a white collar job to represent white people, you're subtly reinforcing the notion that white people are more respectable and better educated than black people. Had you used, say, a plumber or another better paying blue collar job to represent white people, then you would not have been reinforcing that notion.

And again, it's not that you did this on purpose. It's the very fact that you did it automatically that's a reason to stop and consider it.

I did consider it and I know why I did it - because not everyone knows the wage disparity between a janitor and a fast-food worker OR the working conditions of either.

Yet everyone knows the difference between the pay disparity and the working conditions of an accountant and a fast-food worker.

Blue collar work and white collar work are different working conditions but white collar work doesn't always pay more than blue collar work - especially today.

So no, my comparison wasn't born out of bias.

I'm asking you why you assume it was though.

 

[Agayek]

Ugh. The hypocrisy in this thread is rather galling.

ATTENTION: Anyone who was offended by this comic and has ever expressed annoyance and/or displeasure at the discussion of sexism or racism in gaming is a massive hypocrite and needs to physically castrate themselves immediately to prevent your particular brand of stupidity from contaminating the gene pool.

If you fall into that category, i have but three words for you: "Deal With It"

 

[Abomination]

I'm asking you why you assume it was though.

I just explained.

Your chosen example contrasted a low-wage, menial service position (what we call blue-collar work), with a high-paying, intellectual occupation (what we call white-collar work). You automatically associated black people with the blue collar position and the white people with the white collar position.

Whether you want to admit it or not there are set social norms that you associate with certain people and positions. People in white collar jobs are implied to be more respectable and better educated than people in blue collar jobs. By choosing a white collar job to represent white people, you're subtly reinforcing the notion that white people are more respectable and better educated than black people. Had you used, say, a plumber or another better paying blue collar job to represent white people, then you would not have been reinforcing that notion.

No, that isn't explaining why you believe I hold those beliefs that I have explained I do not.

Again, I was using an example involving unskilled and white-collar to better reflect the potential disparity in pay, working conditions and the type of problems both would encounter which can run parallel to the financial situation, conditions and problems that white and black people face.

In no instance did I assume or make that decision based upon an idea that black people are worth less than white people and used the jobs to reflect it. I do not hold in any case that an accountant is a better sort of person than a fast food worker.

So I will ask you again.

Why did you assume I do hold those views?

 

[Overquoted]

Irrelevant, an individual's opinion on the situation is not evidence that someone is or is not being discriminated against. If he does not hold the views of the group being discriminated against then not caring for their plight is not an unreasonable stance for him to take... but that doesn't prove no discrimination is taking place.

Discrimination in the comic would only be taking place if it were referring to all white men. It's not. Get over it.

]Irrelevant, in that instance the redheads are still being discriminated against. Just because it is potentially happening to a different, larger group in a more extreme fashion does not change the fact that discrimination is occurring.

*rubs temples* Did I not just say it was discrimination by a single employer? And then point out the overreaction it produced, particularly when the same group completely ignored the systematic discrimination experienced by other groups?

Exactly like the comic pointed out? Changing a character's race produced overreaction from the same guys who didn't care when an actual human being died because of discrimination.

You are equating two very different things, systematic discrimination and what amounts to individual instances of discrimination. As if the two are equally horrible and have an equal impact on the lives of those on the wrong side of it.

Down right false. I can care about this discrimination and every other discrimination. Just because worse things are happening to other people in other areas does not mean that I must ignore discrimination in an area directly related to my gender and race. To insist I do is in itself discrimination. I have no right to raise concerns because they're not as bad as other people? That is absurd.

Sure, you can raise concerns. Whether or not your concerns are valid, that's a different issue. In regards to the comic, no. In regards to my opinion of your posts, no.

How does this relate in any way as to IF white males are discriminated against? Nobody is saying that white men have it worse in other areas.

We aren't talking about other areas. We are talking about in race and gender debates where a while male's opinion is discriminated against.

And you're doing it right now.

[snip]

Yes. Of course I have. I have been physically assaulted because of my race and had I been female it wouldn't have happened. But does someone need to have been discriminated in order to identify it?

Maybe. Mostly because of the white guys I've met who say they've experienced, many really haven't (I include family members in this group). They attributed discrimination to situations where there is none. They dismiss real discrimination in any other groups (I've even had this happen while they were using slurs).

In all honestly, I think what you see as discrimination is simply weighting experience. Regardless of what you've experienced, most non-whites and women have experienced far more. And they've experienced more severe forms of it. And their lives tend to be impacted by it on a daily basis more often (lower pay being an example). So, no, it is not discrimination to weight your opinion less than others when, not only do you experience less of it, but it is generally your particular group doing the discriminating. No, not you specifically.

If you want your opinion in such a situation to carry more weight, you explain why. If I want my (presumably opposing) opinion to carry more weight in a discussion about how courts favor women over men during child custody battles, I need to explain why. (I'd actually say it's one of the worst areas for discrimination against men these days. But not the point.)

They're doing it because of my race and gender... that is textbook discrimination.

No, I do it because I sincerely don't think you understand what discrimination is. Not in this situation. And while I'll give your opinion a little more weight then I did previously, I'd stick you in the same category as radical feminists, in which jokes about stupid realities are now filed under discrimination.

Funny how you got the joke about hypocritical feminists but can't grasp this comic's point. Astounding. (Not really. It's about what I expected.)

Yes it is. The fact that you do not consider it discrimination is ALSO discrimination. [snip] That is fucking absurd. A person like me how? White and male?

Hypocritical gamers. Men who yell loudest when they feel there's discrimination against white men. And only yell when they feel discriminated against while supporting policies and choices that essentially do the same thing to every who is not white and male. And since you seem to have put yourself in that camp, you.

No, that would be targeting feminist hypocrites. Yet the comic is making fun of how the opinion that the concerns of white males, who believe they are being discriminated against when it comes to the simple discussion of race and gender, should be disregarded because they are both white and male.

It's making fun of every white guy who yells every single time anything happens to shake the status quo. More black or female characters is not simply an adjustment that reflects demographics but an attack on white men. Etc. Every time there is a discussion about race, there is always at least one white guy playing the "but white men are discriminated against" card. It doesn't matter the discussion. It's used as excuse for non-white discrimination, it's used as dismissal of non-white discrimination, and it's used as a way to negate any substantive conversation.

Which you assume because I'm white and male... another example of the very discrimination you are claiming doesn't happen or exist. [snip] So you assume that because I am white I haven't ever been in a scenario like that? That by default it doesn't happen to white males? You can not see how that is discrimination in the slightest?

Dear God, you are a radical...what is a similar word to feminist? Not everything is discrimination.

Fyi, I'm a feminist but if a guy assumes that I, specifically, have never experienced a fight that drew blood...I'm not going to take that as proof he's sexist and therefore discriminating against me. Why? Because most women probably haven't. The vast majority of white guys experience little to no discrimination. And it is not discrimination to assume a guy complaining about a comic, of all things, would be in that category.

And so the opinion of a black man is more valuable to you than the opinion on a white man. Congratulations, that's discrimination.

Not in every instance. Discrimination would be if I valued his opinion over yours in every discussion. I don't. In this, I normally will. So no, not discrimination. Stop trying to be a victim.

 

[Overquoted]

And yes, one has a right to call himself a feminist even if he is male, what an utterly absurd comment.

True. Feminism is just the desire for equal treatment, regardless of gender. Dudes can totally be feminists. *thumbs up*

 

[IronMit]

Zimmerman mode? Wasn't Zimmerman getting punched in the face with his head being slammed into the ground when he pulled the trigger?
I have no idea what that point of this comic thing is supposed to be

 

[Abomination]

Discrimination in the comic would only be taking place if it were referring to all white men. It's not. Get over it.

It's talking about white men who offer an opposing view point in race and/or gender discussion. Of course it's not about all white people. Never insisted it was.

You are equating two very different things, systematic discrimination and what amounts to individual instances of discrimination. As if the two are equally horrible and have an equal impact on the lives of those on the wrong side of it.

I'm not equating shit. You're the one who has brought up the concept of equating discrimination to this discussion.

I'm saying it's taking place while you are denying it as discrimination. Stay on topic please.

Sure, you can raise concerns. Whether or not your concerns are valid, that's a different issue. In regards to the comic, no. In regards to my opinion of your posts, no.

Why not? Because apparently I do not know what discrimination is? A group's contrary opinions on a matter are disregarded because of their sex and/or race. No matter how you cut it.

Maybe. Mostly because of the white guys I've met who say they've experienced, many really haven't (I include family members in this group). They attributed discrimination to situations where there is none. They dismiss real discrimination in any other groups (I've even had this happen while they were using slurs).

In all honestly, I think what you see as discrimination is simply weighting experience. Regardless of what you've experienced, most non-whites and women have experienced far more. And they've experienced more severe forms of it. And their lives tend to be impacted by it on a daily basis more often (lower pay being an example). So, no, it is not discrimination to weight your opinion less than others when, not only do you experience less of it, but it is generally your particular group doing the discriminating. No, not you specifically.

If you want your opinion in such a situation to carry more weight, you explain why. If I want my (presumably opposing) opinion to carry more weight in a discussion about how courts favor women over men during child custody battles, I need to explain why. (I'd actually say it's one of the worst areas for discrimination against men these days. But not the point.)

So in order for my opinion to carry weight I either have to go into a long explanation as to how I have suffered from discrimination OR I can just say "I'm black" and it's implied?

It's as though you simply do not believe white men could possibly experience discrimination unless in extreme circumstances.

You automatically assume a white person hasn't been discriminated against and should they bring it up their opinion doesn't carry the weight of a black person's... that's discrimination.

No, I do it because I sincerely don't think you understand what discrimination is. Not in this situation. And while I'll give your opinion a little more weight then I did previously, I'd stick you in the same category as radical feminists, in which jokes about stupid realities are now filed under discrimination.

Funny how you got the joke about hypocritical feminists but can't grasp this comic's point. Astounding. (Not really. It's about what I expected.)

How are the men in this comic being depicted as hypocritical? They're not being depicted as hypocritical, they're being depicted negatively without embracing any hypocrisy at all.

Hypocritical gamers. Men who yell loudest when they feel there's discrimination against white men. And only yell when they feel discriminated against while supporting policies and choices that essentially do the same thing to every who is not white and male. And since you seem to have put yourself in that camp, you.

But that isn't the stance I have adopted here at all. I am talking about how a white man's opinion is disregarded frequently in race and/or gender debates on the basis of them being white and male.

You assume that I wish to suppose policies and choices that discriminate against other genders and races? Why do you assume that?

It's making fun of every white guy who yells every single time anything happens to shake the status quo. More black or female characters is not simply an adjustment that reflects demographics but an attack on white men. Etc. Every time there is a discussion about race, there is always at least one white guy playing the "but white men are discriminated against" card. It doesn't matter the discussion. It's used as excuse for non-white discrimination, it's used as dismissal of non-white discrimination, and it's used as a way to negate any substantive conversation.

And the inclusion of popped collars, my little pony, Zimmerman, alpha/beta males, friend zone, hover hands - commonly identified negative white male tropes/scenarios along side the concept raised that white males are the "free reign" for insults was an accident, right?

Black man introduces debate topic, white guy defense force swoops in and makes an arse of themselves as what is perceived to be the "opposing view".

Yet no matter how it's cut there's a ring of truth to White Guy Beta's opening quip - especially in relation to race and/or gender debates.

Dear God, you are a radical...what is a similar word to feminist? Not everything is discrimination.

Fyi, I'm a feminist but if a guy assumes that I, specifically, have never experienced a fight that drew blood...I'm not going to take that as proof he's sexist and therefore discriminating against me. Why? Because most women probably haven't. The vast majority of white guys experience little to no discrimination. And it is not discrimination to assume a guy complaining about a comic, of all things, would be in that category.

If you were to be in a scenario discussing the impact or how a violent fight plays out and your opinion was dismissed because you're female - the "dismisser" believing that a woman doesn't know how such an altercation plays out because women are unlikely to have been in such an altercation on account of them being women - that WOULD be discrimination.

Assumption is the basis of discrimination. An opinion is dismissed because white males are perceived to not encounter discrimination is discrimination.

Not in every instance. Discrimination would be if I valued his opinion over yours in every discussion. I don't. In this, I normally will. So no, not discrimination. Stop trying to be a victim.

No, just because you're doing it in a specific instance doesn't change it from being discrimination in that specific instance.

You're saying a black person's opinion is worth more than a white man's opinion A circumstance. Well, in that circumstance that's discrimination. Just because someone believes that black people are better than white people at baseball but not american football doesn't mean their opinion in regards to baseball isn't discriminatory.

 

[Rainforce]

Ugh. The hypocrisy in this thread is rather galling.

ATTENTION: Anyone who was offended by this comic and has ever expressed annoyance and/or displeasure at the discussion of sexism or racism in gaming is a massive hypocrite and needs to physically castrate themselves immediately to prevent your particular brand of stupidity from contaminating the gene pool.

If you fall into that category, i have but three words for you: "Deal With It"

Do you want some shades with that? *enters order into register*


...

I am actually impressed, 20 pages of people being offended and thinking that this must be the ideal reminder to tell everyone, once again, for the fifty-thousandth time, a certain controversial opinion. Why does it only take a single comic to turn so many of you into raging monsters with the argumentative prowess of a 12 year old? GROW UP AND TURN 13, GOD DAMN IT.

 

[Abomination]

Again, it's not an overt thing. You weren't aware that you did it at all.

But the fact remains that you are reinforcing that notion with the images you chose. You put the baseline for black people in a menial blue collar job, and when tasked with coming up with an image that best represents white people in relation to that you use an intellectual, high paying white collar job.

You put the black person in a uniform and a paper hat and you put the white person in a suit and tie.

The fact that you didn't realize you were doing it doesn't mean you didn't do it. Those are the images you're invoking, and the message you send when you invoke those images is that the white person is a superior and the black person is an inferior.

You're not going to answer my question at all, are you?

So I will, again, refute what you said: I did not use that example to reinforce a notion that I believe black people are "worse" than white people.

I have explained the reason why I used the comparison. So how about you accept that was the reason why I used it rather than constantly attempting to psychoanalyze me and answer the question I am presenting to you.

Why did YOU assume I was trying to paint black people as worse than white people?