WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[The Wooster]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

I can say without hesitation that I have never tried to satyr a white man. I'm not even a wizard.

 

[generals3]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

I can say without hesitation that I have never tried to satyr a white man. I'm not even a wizard.

Oh but I know. That's why I think your satire is poor. Instead of properly satirizing one group, as you wanted, it satirizes a much larger one.

 

[Shadowstar38]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

I can say without hesitation that I have never tried to satyr a white man. I'm not even a wizard.

Oh but I know. That's why I think your satyr is poor. Instead of properly satyring one group, as you wanted, it satyrs a much larger one.

Satire dude. Satire. The thing you're saying is a mythological half man half goat.

 

[generals3]

Satire dude. Satire. The thing you're saying is a mythological half man half goat.

I knew something was wrong with the spelling but i forgot what. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Ishal]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

I can say without hesitation that I have never tried to satyr a white man. I'm not even a wizard.

Then where did I get these goat hooves from? Goddammit, Grey. Well at least I can have some fun at the local church now. But you're changing me back when I'm done.

 

[New Frontiersman]

33 pages of comments, and I still don't get or understand whatever joke this strip is trying to make.

It's a poor satyr of the anti-PC crowd. It is trying to make fun out of those who usually disagree with ideas like "Video Games must have more women!", "Video Games are sexist/racist/homophobic/etc.". Which in itself is not bad per se, but the huge amount of emphasis on the "White Guy" part kind of makes it look like it's trying to satyr white men instead and stereotyping them as being over the top anti-pc.

I can say without hesitation that I have never tried to satyr a white man. I'm not even a wizard.

Oh but I know. That's why I think your satyr is poor. Instead of properly satyring one group, as you wanted, it satyrs a much larger one.

... No, the word you're looking for is "satire" not "satyr". To satire is to use "humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues," a satyr is one of the mythological companions of the god Pan who have human upper bodies and goat-like lower bodies; think Phil from Disney's Hercules.

As in: "it's a poor satire of the anti-PC crowd" or "instead of properly satirizing one group... it satirizes a much larger one."

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

If the black guy thinks race does matter, it makes him kind of racist himself.

How so? Racism is not the admission that race matters. If it was, sickle-cell anemia would be a racist disease. Wanting to insert some melanin into the painfully white world of video games protagonists isn't racism either; it's a desire to be represented.

It's not that so much as the way anyone who thinks, for example, a comic book character that has always been white should remain that way in the movies, is tarred and feathered as a racist, at least around these parts[footnote]Edit: And the specific argument for why this should be okay, and it's racist to think otherwise, is that race really didn't matter to the character. Apparently race only affects the experience, characterization, and so on of non-whites, if you look at both the arguments for why it's okay to do this kind of race swap but not okay to do the reverse.[/footnote]. Take a look back in the threads about the rumored casting for the new Fantastic 4 movie, or going further back, the threads about the Pakistani woman who was told she couldn't play a Hobbit in the movie because hobbits don't come quite that dark. Or even further back, the ones about Idris Elba being cast as Heimdall in Thor.

Meanwhile if you so much as suggest a historically black character be a different race in a new adaptation, the outrage is even louder. Now I understand that in part it's because there's already so few minority roles to go around that turning one white reduces the number of roles available for minority actors much more than doing the reverse does for white actors, but it's still more than a little bit weird to see people totally flip around from saying "well sure, let's make this character black, his race didn't matter anyway." To "No way in hell am I going to let you get away with whitewashing this character!" Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

 

[The Wooster]

If the black guy thinks race does matter, it makes him kind of racist himself.

How so? Racism is not the admission that race matters. If it was, sickle-cell anemia would be a racist disease. Wanting to insert some melanin into the painfully white world of video games protagonists isn't racism either; it's a desire to be represented.

Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

Yes I can. It depends entirely on the character. Making Heimdall black is of no consequence because Heimdall's race is immaterial. Making Malcom X white? Yeah, kind of a problem.

Not entirely related, but there's a pretty funny skit on the subject from Donald Glover.

 

[Aesir23]

Satire dude. Satire. The thing you're saying is a mythological half man half goat.

I knew something was wrong with the spelling but i forgot what. Thanks for the correction.

It certainly made the post a lot more amusing to read. I kept inserting half men-half goats into the equation.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

If the black guy thinks race does matter, it makes him kind of racist himself.

How so? Racism is not the admission that race matters. If it was, sickle-cell anemia would be a racist disease. Wanting to insert some melanin into the painfully white world of video games protagonists isn't racism either; it's a desire to be represented.

Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

Yes I can. It depends entirely on the character. Making Heimdall black is of no consequence because Heimdall's race is immaterial. Making Malcom X white? Yeah, kind of a problem.

Not entirely related, but there's a pretty funny skit on the subject from Donald Glover.

Heimdall was a god who lived in a totally alien society where race apparently didn't matter, though. That doesn't really apply to a character like Johnny Storm.

Edit: And after watching that video, not only is it hilarious, but he doesn't fall into the double standard I'm talking about. When it gets down to it I don't really care about the issue itself, but I do get annoyed by the way caring about a race swap is called racism... but only if it's from white to a minority, with taking a character in the other direction somehow being a /more/ racist thing to do than complaining about going from white to black/another minority.

Same thing with a lot of the social justice issue debates as they're carried out on the internet. I just don't like seeing people get called racists by even bigger racists, or sexists by even bigger sexists, or... (you get the idea.)

 

[The Wooster]

If the black guy thinks race does matter, it makes him kind of racist himself.

How so? Racism is not the admission that race matters. If it was, sickle-cell anemia would be a racist disease. Wanting to insert some melanin into the painfully white world of video games protagonists isn't racism either; it's a desire to be represented.

Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

Yes I can. It depends entirely on the character. Making Heimdall black is of no consequence because Heimdall's race is immaterial. Making Malcom X white? Yeah, kind of a problem.

Not entirely related, but there's a pretty funny skit on the subject from Donald Glover.

Heimdall was a god who lived in a totally alien society where race apparently didn't matter, though. That doesn't really apply to a character like Johnny Storm.

That becomes a question of realism. Just because Storm exists in a universe much like our own, doesn't mean his race is essential to his character arc. Unless the story REQUIRES him to be a particular race, I don't see the harm in changing it. At the same time, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to CHANGE his race unless the right actor came along. It's a complex, delicate issue, but it isn't the minefield many make it out to be. I'd be all for a black Spiderman, but I don't think a black Batman would work.

 

[scotth266]

I can't see the "Zimmerman mode activate" part of the joke as being anything but dumb. Comedy is meant to tackle touchy subject matters, but when you're criticizing "white-guy defending" and then have them blow away a black guy, you're completely missing the mark.

"White-guy videogame defenders" (WGVDs) aren't actively attempting to murder black people. They're guilty of an attempt to defend an uneven status quo, but even that is somewhat understandable given that the status quo is in their favor and people are prone to ignore that sort of thing. And some of the criticism they put forth isn't unwarranted - the games industry needs more not-white-guy characters, but a lot of attempts to introduce them have been ham-fisted at best, and that probably leads to some of that "not-really-identifying" issue that the comic's first panel touches on.

A good chunk of the opposition to more minority characters is probably due to buried racism. But while we might feel tempted to look down on WGVDs, they're fans of the medium and want what they feel is best for videogames - they're not actively TRYING to be racist. And given that the first panel seems to indicate that this comic's creators understand that, it's all the more jarring when, a few panels later, they equate WGVDs to cold-blooded murderers (as they clearly believe Zimmerman is.)

It's probably trying to draw some parallel to the over-reactions WGVDs have on the internet to the over-reaction they think Zimmerman had, but it really just doesn't work. There's a world of difference between some WGVD on the internet getting defensive over someone "playing the race card" and what happened in the Zimmerman case.

 

[fromthepoisonwell]

I don't see how mashing up a few terrible memes about how shitty reddit (and the associated crowd) is should be funny. Then again, maybe I frequented le reddit too long back in the day and have just been exposed to reddit's self hate too much to find it entertaining anymore.

 

[JimB]

I don't understand your argument.

The edited comic makes fun of the black guy for betraying his own position that race isn't important. That makes no sense because the black guy never says race isn't important. He just throws that back in the other guy's face after the other guy said it.

I never said that the article was the proof, I said this article is pretty non biased and lays everything out.

Then why did you provide it, if it doesn't prove any of the assertions you make? Are you just trying to change the subject and hoping I'll drop the question?

Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

We're not talking about the strip any more, are we? Because the black dude in the strip wasn't trying to have it both ways. That's the people he was arguing with trying to do that; they're the ones saying race doesn't matter, so it therefore matters if a character turns black.

 

[HalfTangible]

If the black guy thinks race does matter, it makes him kind of racist himself.

How so? Racism is not the admission that race matters. If it was, sickle-cell anemia would be a racist disease. Wanting to insert some melanin into the painfully white world of video games protagonists isn't racism either; it's a desire to be represented.

Race either matters or it doesn't, you really can't have it both ways.

Yes I can. It depends entirely on the character. Making Heimdall black is of no consequence because Heimdall's race is immaterial. Making Malcom X white? Yeah, kind of a problem.

Not entirely related, but there's a pretty funny skit on the subject from Donald Glover.

Making Malcolm X white is a problem because he was a historical figure, an actual PERSON >_> Revisionist history is a problem too, but it's not the same problem as racism

 

[cricket chirps]

So can I just give a quick congratulations to Cory and Grey for creating an article that I believe now has more comments than any other on the Escapist?

Because, yea, I have to say congrats here. Hope this whole conversation doesn't get brought up to you guys at the Expo this year.

Edit: WOOT, just made it 35 pages long

 

[Madmonk12345]

Also, I've been considering something. If race doesn't matter, and you then change the race, isn't it purely an asthetic change? How I'm I suppose to relate to the character any better when everything else stays the same? It's like the dudes with tits thing when we talk about adding female characters.

Actually, thinking about it, who framed it a a matter of relatability in the first place? Wasn't it born out of game publishers (EA, Ubisoft(?)) arguing that the white straight male protagonist's was necessary because of its supposed need to appeal to a wider audience, as if skin color or gender made protagonists more or less relatable?

The immediate and most obvious rebuttal to make would be to flip it, ala "What about relatability for us women/POC/gay people?", and while such people may seem equally bad as the people they're arguing against now when we think about the irrelevance of skin color,gender,etc. to relatability, can we really blame them for not thinking up that stab at the idea first?

IOW, relatability was a red herring in the debate that many have yet to shake off. There are more important reasons to ask questions like "why is X character a man/white/straight/cis", like how it seems to be a default in the AAA industry. Would the story of Grand Theft Auto V be a better story if one of the 3 main characters were not white and male? Given how most protagonists in the AAA industry seems to be the result of the poisonous focus testing that seems to murder so many games, the idea that it wasn't thought about seems possible enough to consider asking the question at the very least.

Might they have a good reason for making all of the main characters male and straight? Sure! However, If they haven't thought about it, then maybe making one of the characters black could have interesting consequences. Suppose you wanted to make one character's story more difficult than the others, as a "hard mode" for the game. Police forces tend to have more suspicion of black people because of long reigning cultural assumptions. Making the cops racist in GTA V could provide that difficulty along with an interesting story based around that difficulty, and that at least should be considered. It tells a story I really don't see examples of in video games(Though I'd be happy to be wrong). Or, if it is completely irrelevant, then why choose that aesthetic in the first place? Why not allow people to role play as whoever they want?

Asking questions to these extents just makes stories better in their consideration, and handles the gender,ethnic, and sexual orientation based divide in main characters to boot.

 

[Steve Waltz]

The Zimmerman joke is about them killing a black person, not the murderers' race.

Oh, okay. So only the race of the person murdered matters.

This makes PERFECT sense. Never mind the fact that Trayvon tackled and tried to kill Zimmerman. Nooo, the only reason Zimmerman killed Trayvon was because Zimmerman was racist. Anyone who claims self-defense is racist. After all, it's impossible to be prejudice against whites and hispanics, right?

Um... What's your point? That stuff is 100% irrelevant to the "Zimmerman mode" joke.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

The edited comic makes fun of the black guy for betraying his own position that race isn't important. That makes no sense because the black guy never says race isn't important. He just throws that back in the other guy's face after the other guy said it.

Hhm...

"He's doesn't need to be black because his race doesn't matter."

"If his race doesn't matter, why not make the character black?"

"If his race doesn't matter, why make the character black?"

Tried several times to figure out what you're saying but it just doesn't make any sense to me. If something doesn't matter then it doesn't matter. The black guy is trying to lead the person he was talking with so he doesn't have to say "Race IS important." What the edited comic does is block off the leading question by continuing to substantiate that the race doesn't matter.