White People are... Better?

Clearing the Eye

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I've been on a history bent lately and have noticed something odd that I've never thought about in detail. It seems white countries (countries either predominantly run by or founded by Caucasians or Europeans) have it a great deal better than black nations (those occupied mainly by African descendants) and a fair deal better than Asian countries. Not saying the individual people are better or worse, smarter or dumber, just that overall the nations seem vastly different. We're all aware of the "privileged white" status. But have you ever really thought about it?

If we look through history, time and time again white people (usually some form of Anglo Saxon) show up on the scene, rape and pillage the vastly worse off native population of black people, then install their own technology and culture. The English did it, the Germans did it, the French did it, the Spanish did it, etc., etc. People with a massive technological advantage, all whom happen to be white, demolish and replace nations. Why? How?

It's widely believed the first of our species developed in Africa, before later moving through what is now Asia and eventually up to Europe. While the oldest human being we've ever found was discovered in Australia (50,000 ish years-old, btw) Africa is thought to be the pool from which the majority of humans developed. They spent a long, long time there, then moved North and into China, establishing the longest running empire yet. White people as we've come to know, didn't arrive on the scene until both the two other major ethnic "types" if you will, had already been growing, learning, evolving and advancing for quite some time. But somehow, white man managed to acquire a massive technological lead, obtaining things like mechanical engineering, health care and medicine, advanced sanitation and water systems, weapons of war--you get the idea.

So, somehow European humans managed to outpace and out-tech their older relatives, take over much of the world during centuries of exploration and conquest and end up today as easily the best off nations. How? Look at the top countries by way of health care, economy, human rights, education and levels of conflict. The top half of the list is comfortably white--Norway, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, etc. They've all had their ups and their downs, going through wars and depressions like anywhere else, but still the happiest, healthiest and most advanced peoples are white. Asia isn't far behind, held back mostly by extreme levels of poverty that offset their smaller, better off minorities. Some Arab countries are filthy rich, with some of the world's richest making bank from oil, but, again and to a worse degree, poverty, war, education and general health in the lower end overshadows the richer portion.

I never realized it was this much of a difference. How did it turn out this way? Am I imagining things?
 

Kolby Jack

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Well, Europeans civilizations basically raped, pillaged, and ruined many civilizations that were advancing at a decent pace. Then they colonized all the places that had the best resources, usually over the ruins of those civilizations they wrecked, THEN used the leftover citizens of those civilizations as cheap labor to further their industries. It was how the world worked back then, really. It could have just as easily been any other geographically based ethnicity that did so. Nobody's really to blame for it. Despite what some cynics will tell you, we've come a long way since then.
 

Clearing the Eye

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Jack the Potato said:
Well, Europeans civilizations basically raped, pillaged, and ruined many civilizations that were advancing at a decent pace. Then they colonized all the places that had the best resources, usually over the ruins of those civilizations they wrecked. It was how the world worked back then, really. It could have just as easily been any other geographically based ethnicity that did so. Nobody's really to blame for it, it was just how the world worked back then.
But how did the white population, much, much younger than the others, manage to gain better technology, health and government that quick? We sort of went from zero to one hundred in five minutes, while everyone else struggled to get up to sixty. Then, with our technology that must have seemed godly to the poor natives, we took over everything.
 

Kolby Jack

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Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
Well, Europeans civilizations basically raped, pillaged, and ruined many civilizations that were advancing at a decent pace. Then they colonized all the places that had the best resources, usually over the ruins of those civilizations they wrecked. It was how the world worked back then, really. It could have just as easily been any other geographically based ethnicity that did so. Nobody's really to blame for it, it was just how the world worked back then.
But how did the white population, much, much younger than the others, manage to gain better technology, health and government that quick? We sort of went from zero to one hundred in five minutes, while everyone else struggled to get up to sixty. Then, with our technology that must have seemed godly to the poor natives, we took over everything.
They started the raping and pillaging long before technology caught up. It started with the Greeks, then the Romans, then the English, French, and Spanish, then America (at least with the slave trade). And again, Europe and America are overly-abundant in natural resources, as opposed to Africa or the Middle East. So really it just comes down to circumstance and dumb luck.

They only started to vastly outpace the rest of the world during the industrial revolution, anyway.
 

Thaluikhain

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Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
 

Kolby Jack

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thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
 

Clearing the Eye

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Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
 

Kolby Jack

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Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
Wow. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even in the same country! No. Just, no.

 

Clearing the Eye

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Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
Wow. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even in the same country! No. Just, no.
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
 

Kolby Jack

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Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
Wow. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even in the same country! No. Just, no.
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
I find your lack of context... disturbing. Also, it was 70 years ago. Seems silly to hold that against the US for so long.
 

Clearing the Eye

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Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
Wow. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even in the same country! No. Just, no.
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
I find your lack of context... disturbing. Also, it was 70 years ago. Seems silly to hold that against the US for so long.
Lol. So it's time to forgive the Nazi party for the holocaust, too then? Lol no. Besides, the U.S. continues to be the modern day Nazi Germany, invading countries they have no business in and fucking everything up. Remember a fear years ago, when one of their CIA assassins accidentally killed the wrong person? Good times. Almost as funny as the 100,000 dead civilians in the Iraq flame they fed. Easily one of the worst thing to happen in modern history, the American colonization.
 

Kolby Jack

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Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
Clearing the Eye said:
Jack the Potato said:
thaluikhain said:
Guns, germs and steel?

Anyway, some group was always going to do better than the others, based on random chance.

Europe happened to develop faster than other groups, or perhaps didn't run into stagnation, and was able to dominate the others. This will change at some point, but hasn't yet.

Look at places like Japan or Singapore, for example, they were able to make the most of the changing world and have done well for themselves as nations.
While I agree, I just feel like pointing out that while Japan was an impressive nation before WW2, AFTER WW2 most of its progress was due to massive rebuilding and reconstructing efforts from the US. It's why the USA and Japan are best buddies today even though we nuked them... twice.
Dropped them right on residential cities, too. The Yanks attempted to tell us both cities happened to be important military points, but considering something like 90% or more of the causalities were civilians >_>

Pretty much as disgraceful as the Jewish Holocaust, only smaller.
Wow. Not even close. Not even in the same ballpark. Not even in the same country! No. Just, no.
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
I find your lack of context... disturbing. Also, it was 70 years ago. Seems silly to hold that against the US for so long.
Lol. So it's time to forgive the Nazi party for the holocaust, too then? Lol no. Besides, the U.S. continues to be the modern day Nazi Germany, invading countries they have no business in and fucking everything up. Remember a fear years ago, when one of their CIA assassins accidentally killed the wrong person? Good times. Almost as funny as the 100,000 dead civilians in the Iraq flame they fed. Easily one of the worst thing to happen in modern history, the American colonization.
Well, first it was just a simple thread derailment, but now we've gone headlong into Godwin's law. I'm not going to be a part of this!

 

Keoul

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Perhaps all the "white" people grew so fast because they had to grow fast, they were constantly surrounded by angry states who would just love to get a piece of their land. So they were forced to develop new technology or become enslaved.

From what I can tell most other nations were pretty peaceful with each other (I'm not including china because they advanced fairly quickly as well). Aboriginals from Australia kept to themselves, only communicating with other tribes to trade goods, they lived off the land and they never needed to develop new technologies so they never did.
 

Hoplon

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Clearing the Eye said:
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
Then it's clear that you don't know what genocide means.

"the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki where terrible, terrible things, but at no point where they an attempt to systematically destroy even a significant part of the peoples that could be considered Japanese, possibly the reverse, to kill as few as possible to get the imperial army to surrender.
 

Clearing the Eye

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Easy answer; Europe had an agricultural and geographic advantage from the get go.

Jack the Potato said:
I find your lack of context... disturbing. Also, it was 70 years ago. Seems silly to hold that against the US for so long.
I think some of it comes from frustration. Look at it this way - holocaust. Germany ends up having future generations shamed for the actions of their grandfathers and pays fines to this day.

US - drops a nuke, continues to test nuclear weapons and fucks it up a few times, ruining the lives of many more people, goes into Vietnam, goes into Iraq, and on and on it goes. And does the US get shamed? Nah, it's just America fuck yeah.

It's not just "Oh, that was 70 years ago". The US has committed various atrocities in the last 10 years too.
Europe is really that much of an agricultural boon, huh? Obviously certain places are going to be a ton more fertile than, say, 99% of Ethiopia, lol. But I didn't really think it was so extreme as to facilitate such a large gap in development. Then again, Egypt during it's peak was a global powerhouse due largely to how amazingly fertile the Nile banks are.

Kind of worse, really; it was luck that led to the Europeans having the ability to and eventually carrying out, mass murder and colonization >_>

Keoul said:
Perhaps all the "white" people grew so fast because they had to grow fast, they were constantly surrounded by angry states who would just love to get a piece of their land. So they were forced to develop new technology or become enslaved.

From what I can tell most other nations were pretty peaceful with each other (I'm not including china because they advanced fairly quickly as well). Aboriginals from Australia kept to themselves, only communicating with other tribes to trade goods, they lived off the land and they never needed to develop new technologies so they never did.
"It is from their enemies, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls."

Good points.
 

Clearing the Eye

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Hoplon said:
Clearing the Eye said:
I'd call dropping nuclear weapons on innocent men, women and children akin to genocide--just on a much smaller scale. Areas of Japan are still fucked from it; birth defects, cancers and disease still claim lives. Watched a sad documentary about it a few weeks ago on The Discovery Channel. They interviewed a woman who was a child when it happened. The U.S. wanted to know what the radiation would do to humans, especially children, so they organized "medical research" teams to go over and "help." She vividly recalled being inspected and made to take her clothes off in front of a room full of men. Disgusting stuff, really.

One of the many reasons I hate the U.S. with all of my tiny, black heart, lol.
Then it's clear that you don't know what genocide means.

"the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

The attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki where terrible, terrible things, but at no point where they an attempt to systematically destroy even a significant part of the peoples that could be considered Japanese, possibly the reverse, to kill as few as possible to get the imperial army to surrender.
Akin means similar or related. So, my point was that murdering tens of thousands of civilians and ruining countless lives that still suffer, is similar to the destruction of an entire group, just on a smaller scale.

Don't mix my words ;)
 

Thaluikhain

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Oh, here we go again.

Attacking a city with one single powerful device is not somehow worse than causing the same damage with waves of bombers using very many much less powerful bombs.

Cities had been bombed indiscriminately all through the war, it doesn't only suddenly kill civilians when the word "nuclear" crops up.
 

Clearing the Eye

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thaluikhain said:
Oh, here we go again.

Attacking a city with one single powerful device is not somehow worse than causing the same damage with waves of bombers using very many much less powerful bombs.

Cities had been bombed indiscriminately all through the war, it doesn't only suddenly kill civilians when the word "nuclear" crops up.
Radiation is indiscriminate and bombs do horrendous damage. The majority of deaths from both nuclear drops were instant, with people vanishing in the blink of an eye from the heat--they evaporated, even leaving behind burned in shadows that you can still see to this day--the rest of the deaths come from being crushed, inhaling smoke, burning alive, radiation and blast waves turning people's organs into liquid. The U.S. didn't just "drop a bomb" and "nuclear" isn't a pop word used for impact. The damage done with those two bombs is unfathomable. The sheer heat from such radiation created a scene I heard one man describe as apocalyptic, with thousands of people running to the lakes around the city to cool their melting skin.

To even attempt to disregard or play down the horror America caused is sickening. People didn't just die, they went through unimaginable hell--human beings are still suffering from radiation.
 

Clearing the Eye

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TopazFusion said:
Okay, about the nukes dropped on Japan, watch this video. It explains it much better than I ever could.
Yes it's nearly an hour long, but it's well worth watching.

I think we went a tad off topic >___>

Or maybe I proved white people are worse than others, despite having better tech, lol.