Well this thread had the rules of no powers and overworldy stuff. So if you take that into account I'd say he has a pretty good chance. He's the only one who doesn't have a bankai, or the first form (shikai?). And he's physically stronger than most in the series. So even if his "skill" as in tactical ability of using the sword isn't the best, I'd still argue he's one of the strongest swordsmen in the series.llagrok said:
Who is the best swordsman in fiction?
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llagrok said:
Time to go full Bleach nerd.Guffe said:
The problem you have with Bleach is that a shinigami is essentially a ball of reiatsu.
Kenpachi explains this in his fight against Ichigo. When Ichigo lands a clean hit on Kenpachi, Ichigo is injured instead. It is explained that because both combatants are spiritual entities when they collide the weakest loses. Ichigo's spiritual body is effectively acting as an avatar for his reiatsu. When these two balls of reiatsu collide and one loses out, the damage to his spiritual pressure is illustrated through injuries to his spiritual body, his avatar.
You may remember one of the many times that Ichigo has been losing a fight, only to turn it around with a massive explosion of reiatsu and some frantic sword work. You may also remember that his opponents frequently comment on how much faster and stronger he gets as his spiritual pressure rises. It certainly does appear that a higher level of reiatsu does augment one's speed, strength, defense, endurance etc.
Bearing this in mind it is very doubtful that any Bleach character would meet the OP's criteria. Reiatsu at least partially determines the physical abilities of every character and when we remove reiatsu from the equation (as we would have to do to meet OP's criteria) we have no way of knowing who is good at what to what extent.
However, Bleach itself actually provides an easy way around this.
Gigai.
The human suits that shinigami wear when in the real world prevent them from using reiatsu or any kind of shinigami or superhuman abilities. Plus when in a gigai a shinigami retains their personality, memories and yes, skills. Placing a shinigami in a gigai removes all of the superhuman abilities but allows them to keep their sword fighting skills, ideal for the purpose of this thread.
The new problem being that Kenpachi has never been shown to use a gigai and his fighting style hinges on the fact that he isn't really trying (due to his massive reiatsu) in order to prolong the fight, and we have no idea how or if this would change were he to fight while inhabiting a gigai.
So it doesn't matter which way you look at it, there's always going to be a certain amount of conjecture involved.
I'll dispute that Kenpachi doesn't have any skills though. You don't spend hundreds upon hundreds of years doing nothing but sword fighting without developing some sword fighting skills. And according to the OP's criteria any other skills are irrelevant.
Some good opinions, but you're all wrong.
It's obviously Olek Skilgannon, aka Skilgannon the Damned, aka the White Wolf. Wielder of the Swords of Night and Day which were possessed by a demon of the Void, his will kept the demon of the blades subdued while his own training and talent made him the most feared bladesman of the land.
It's obviously Olek Skilgannon, aka Skilgannon the Damned, aka the White Wolf. Wielder of the Swords of Night and Day which were possessed by a demon of the Void, his will kept the demon of the blades subdued while his own training and talent made him the most feared bladesman of the land.
kurokotetsu said:
I like your approach. Here's the only one I'd submit.
The Original.
The one who started it all. Not a warrior or a soldier or a hero of any kind, but a "survivor born of a thousand generations of survivors".
Conan the Barbarian. To date, no one has ever managed to make a movie that tells the stories right either. Such a shame.
Conan the Barbarian. To date, no one has ever managed to make a movie that tells the stories right either. Such a shame.
I honestly can't decide between Artemis Entreri and Drizzt Do'Urden. Both of them have their art perfected, while Drizzt has bested Entreri more than Entreri has won, Drizzt also has remarked that most of it was sheer luck or intervention from outside sources. The issue has never been truly settled on an even score.
Especially now that Entreri has seemingly got his head straightened out, his life under his own control and a lot more years under his belt perfecting his art. Drizzt meanwhile is an emotional wreck and losing his edge... Of course I could say that Jarlaxle Baenre is better than both of them only by the sheer wealth of magical protections that bastard has on his person... But that doesn't make him a better swordsman, just better prepared.
Didn't he get his ass kicked by Worf though?2xDouble said:So many have forgotten the old ways...
Hail, the Great Warrior, Kahless [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahless], the One who is Not Forgotten. He was the first warrior-king, uniting all the Klingons; a badass so badass a race of badasses consider him "the greatest warrior of them all".
He was the creator of the Klingons' signature weapon: forged from a lock of his own hair thrust (barehanded) into the fires of a volcano, then into a nearby lake. He twisted the hair and fire into a new shape (again, bare-handed). When he had used it to kill the unbeatable tyrant Molor, Kahless held the sword aloft and gave it its name, "bat'leth", meaning "Sword of Honor".
Think about it, how many swordsmen become so proficient that they need to create a new kind of sword that can keep up?
Not many.
I still vote for him though.
I know he was just a clone and not the actual Kahless
Altair or Ezio would be my candidates.
There seems to be a tendency among many nominees to ignore the "no enhanced abilities", since some people are half-magic or wield weapons they wouldnt be able to unless they had magic assistance. I suppose the rules of physics are tempting to ignore.
Ezio and Altair, to my knowledge, have no such "magic", and instead their abilities come from pure training and experience. Being able to take down half a dozen opponents at the same time using melee weaponry(swords are there but arent exclusive) is a hellova feat.
I would nominate Geralt of Rivia, but im guessing he wouldnt qualify since he definetly augments himself.
All in hall however its very difficult to find a "best", since some genres tent to push what is believable to the extreme. Hell I can recall an asian action movie where Jet Li basicly takes on an entire chinese army by himself.
So personally I'd rather see something like "who is the best swordsman in a universe that at least somewhat follows the rules of physics?" or some such, otherwise its just "what universe can push itself as the most badass and ridicilous?" And then we'll probably end up on warhammer 40k again.
There seems to be a tendency among many nominees to ignore the "no enhanced abilities", since some people are half-magic or wield weapons they wouldnt be able to unless they had magic assistance. I suppose the rules of physics are tempting to ignore.
Ezio and Altair, to my knowledge, have no such "magic", and instead their abilities come from pure training and experience. Being able to take down half a dozen opponents at the same time using melee weaponry(swords are there but arent exclusive) is a hellova feat.
I would nominate Geralt of Rivia, but im guessing he wouldnt qualify since he definetly augments himself.
All in hall however its very difficult to find a "best", since some genres tent to push what is believable to the extreme. Hell I can recall an asian action movie where Jet Li basicly takes on an entire chinese army by himself.
So personally I'd rather see something like "who is the best swordsman in a universe that at least somewhat follows the rules of physics?" or some such, otherwise its just "what universe can push itself as the most badass and ridicilous?" And then we'll probably end up on warhammer 40k again.
+1 for Drizzt, quoting this as well cuz I'm nicking that image, Drizzt has taken on the toughest Demons, the most powerful wizards and clerics and whole armies along with defeating the most skilled sword fighters in his world. He also survived for decades mostly on his own (his cat can only spend half a day out of every two in the material world) in the wild underdark, a lightless hell hole filled with all kinds of monsters and predators that would give most heroes nightmares. Then you have all the evil sentient races down there and he lived for nearly 30 years down there.Elfgore said:I'll nominate Drizzt Do'Urden, the Drow Ranger from the Forgotten Realms. (guy on the right)
He is a total OP badass. I think only one enemy in all of the novels can actually hold his own against him in a actual sword fight. Some assassin who's name I forget (the guy on the left). He duel wields scimitars, which I'm guessing (I know nothing about swords and swordfighting) is more difficult. He also has a panther as a partner. If I remember he doesn't even use magic, even though his race is quite famous for it.
Well, I had given thought to this, but after reading through some of the responses (some of which I would have given), I gave up on the notion because the best answer is... "Mary Sue".
I agree that Brys definitely deserves a nomination. Honestly though, it's hard to choose, given how many superb swordsmen there are in the Malazan book of the Fallen. Just off the top of my head there's Anomander Rake, Dassem Ultor, Temper, Whiskeyjack, Kallor, Spinnock Durav, Karsa Orlong, Iron Bars, Skinner, Shimmer, Blues, Silchas Ruin, Onos T'oolan, Gruntle (although, his fighting ability might be better attributed to ferocity and reflexes, rather than blade skill), and many of the ranked Seguleh.Ignatz_Zwakh said:
It'd be nice if the question was "who's the best spearman?"; then we could just say "Trull Sengar" and leave it at that
