Who is the best swordsman in fiction?

AlphaAscalon

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iwinatlife said:
Al'Lan Mandragoran gets my vote as well however, I bet Mat with his Ashendari would beat him if he still had his battle memories but without his crazy luck
[Wheel of Time spoiler-ish details incoming]

Now that's an intriguing idea. Mat did beat the in-training (but still very very good) Galad and Gawyn with only a quarterstaff shortly after he'd been healed of the dagger from Shadar Logoth. He did not have his battle memories at the time. He bested them solely with his skill with a quarterstaff.

The brothers may have underestimated a tired and worn down Mat but after he dropped Gawyn, Galad took him seriously and fought him seriously (the more skilled of the two at that point in time).

He gains his battle memories and special proficiency with the Ashandarei in the 4th novel in Rhuidean.

If we say the fight happens late in the story then Matt has had plenty of real body fighting experience (not just memories) and he's been using his Ashandarei since the 4th novel.

If we take away Mat's luck-bending and his memories and the proficiency given to him. He might still be able to fight evenly with Lan with his Ashandarei based on his fighting experience and past proficiency with quarterstaves. In the novels it's stated that he often used the Ashandarei like one.

With his enhanced memories (but no luck) he might well be able to beat Lan. A polearm also has certain advantages against a sword if the user is competent enough to utilise them. Mat would be able to.
 

Silly Hats

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Seriously? No Hiro Protagonist?

He even has "Last of the freelance hackers and Greatest swordfighter in the world" on his business card
 

Therumancer

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Silly Hats said:
Seriously? No Hiro Protagonist?

He even has "Last of the freelance hackers and Greatest swordfighter in the world" on his business card
I figure most people here are too young to have actually read most classic dark future fiction like "Snow Crash", it's just not really current or geek-chic anymore, though people will sometimes pretend to be familiar with genere classics.

To be brutally honest the very nature of this competition prevents any serious discussion since probably nine tenths of the characters suggested are pretty much disqualified automatically for inherently tapping into superhuman abilities, even if it's loosely defined "Chi" or whatever as part of their skill.

My answer however would be Benedict Of Amber, from Roger Zelazny's "Amber" books. The basic concept is that there are only two things in the universe which are "real" the formlessness of chaos, and the pattern or "form" of Amber. The rest of the multiverse including all other dimensions are simply shadows cast by the contrast of the two, many believe themselves to be the center of the universe, or the true reality, but it's not true... yadda, yadda. Ultimatly even if quite different most people and beings of note are simply reflections of beings of note in the true realities. Benedict Of Amber is pretty much *THE* ultimate fighter in the entirety of creation, other invincible seeming fighters tend to be reflections of him or the other princes and princesses (sometimes each having what amount to multiple reflectios in a given reality) but as the undisputed best of the bunch a reflection of Benedict is pretty much going to be a better than a reflection of anyone else, and when it comes to a straight fight Benedict is undisputably the best of the Lords Of Amber. The reason I mention him is because this is about raw skill, as opposed to bringing in any other kinds of powers like mastery of magic, manipulation of shadows (ie reality alteration), trumps, or what kind of other resources he might have to draw on, as he can be (and is) overcome by others, but he is conceptually the most skillful fighter in all of reality, his skill being mirrored across the entirety of creation. One recurring question in the stories is who the second best fighter in Amber is Eric, Corwin, and Bleys all wind up crossing blades trying to figure this out, arguably it turns out to be Corwin which makes him #2 in all of reality but when it comes to being forced to cross blades with Benedict he knows he has no chance, and typically winds up having to run away and find conditions where he can resolve
a fight outside of the realm of pure martial talent.

Of course this is very much a series/universe specific concept, which winds up pretty much defining anyone else you can think of as being an "imperfect shadow" at the very best, at the end of the day, especially when getting to shadows cast very far away from the true reality, most people and things won't have the "honor" of being anything close to a proper reflection... it would take a long time to explain how that all breaks down and all the permutations of it though. But basically if you bring up Benedict of Amber, he wins... period, as the concept is simply that he is the ultimate fighter in all of creation.


To get a little less obtuse, I'd probably nominate Lancelot as a conceptual runner up. A real classic there. Lancelot is pretty much defined as being invincible on terms of skill alone. Depending on the version of the story, you even run into cases where Lancelot is pretty much volunteering for suicide missions to get himself killed off out of shame for his love of the queen, and keeps failing because his honor as a knight demands that he really try and win, and he literally scours the earth picking fights with the nastiest no-win scenarios possible and literally nothing can beat him because he's just too bloody good. The versions that define him this way the whole "Ill Made Knight" concept popularized by parts of "The Once And Future King" and then run with, typically gloss over the specifics, but he's more or less supposed to be pretty much single handedly throwing himself against the best forces of Asia, The Middle East, Europe, and anywhere else, huge monsters, etc... and always goes it alone forgoing help from other knights because he secretly wants to die. Typically the only fight Lancelot tends to "lose" is against Galahad, and that usually comes about due to divine punishment for Lancelot's betrayal of the king, with God pretty much directly smacking Lancelot down through Galahad. Of course Lance typically gets his mojo back and shows up to pretty much single handedly save the day for the rest of the kingdom in the final act... where "the rest of the kingdom" is key since Arthur usually bites it in one spectacular way or another in the same battle and is taken away through the mists.
 

Dr.Helios

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Nobody does it better than Gannicus, he spent his life in the Arena in Capua. He's killed gladiators while blindfolded, hopelessly outmatched for size and when only equipped with a ceremonial wooden Rudus. He can fight both Dimachaeri and Myrmadon if pressed as well as possessing some skill with the spear.

I dont know if he is disqualified for also having been real though.
 

Dr.Helios

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FilmDude89 said:
So... Much... Anime.. Make.. It.. Stop!
Lol, but in all seriousness I'm going to have to go with Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. He's pretty much the closest thing to human that has been listed in this thread and doesn't have any supernatural anime bullshit that makes him unnaturally powerful.
Also, he's proficient with a bow when he needs to be and was trained as a ranger by the elves of middle earth.. meaning he can track targets and know exactly where someone or something is going to be at any given time.
He's got my vote.
He's Numenorean so kind of magic in terms of LOTR as he his pretty much a superman compared to others of his race, still having said that it is in the text the Boromir is the mightiest warrior in the fellowship so he's not even the best out of his universe.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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FilmDude89 said:
So... Much... Anime.. Make.. It.. Stop!
Lol, but in all seriousness I'm going to have to go with Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. He's pretty much the closest thing to human that has been listed in this thread and doesn't have any supernatural anime bullshit that makes him unnaturally powerful.
Also, he's proficient with a bow when he needs to be and was trained as a ranger by the elves of middle earth.. meaning he can track targets and know exactly where someone or something is going to be at any given time.
He's got my vote.
Hey now...

Conan is just an ordinary human, as are all the characters from the Princess Bride and Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser...

Hell even a few of the Anime characters are relatively normal (Mugen and Jinn) swordsmen with only a bit of physics defying style rather than any actual superhuman powers.
 

God'sFist

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Johnny Impact said:
Elfgore said:
I'll nominate Drizzt Do'Urden, the Drow Ranger from the Forgotten Realms. He is a total OP badass. I think only one enemy in all of the novels can actually hold his own against him in a actual sword fight. Some assassin who's name I forget (the guy on the left). He duel wields scimitars, which I'm guessing (I know nothing about swords and swordfighting) is more difficult. He also has a panther as a partner. If I remember he doesn't even use magic, even though his race is quite famous for it.
The assassin is Artemis Entreri. Drizzt technically does not use magic but last I heard both his scimitars were magical weapons.

OT: I'm going with Darth Vader. He beat dozens of Jedi, or was it hundreds? My grasp of canon is not that of a true fan. Anyway, given that the Jedi are the Galactic Badass Squad, I'd say Vader qualifies.

....Though that does bring up the question of how far down his skills would go if severed from the Force. Precognition and enhanced reflexes are part of the powers he'd have to give up for the sake of this thread. How much is actual swordsmanship and how much is "god-given"?
Fun fact one of the guys behind the mask of Darth Vader is an actual sword master. Be that as it may I would not say him because of the fact that he fought a regular dude and had to rely on the force to beat him and then after that his son defeats him later. plus you forgot to mention his prosthetic limbs which give him enhanced strength and reflex. All in all he is more of a force power house than a swordsman. Yoda on the other hand was pretty good for a bouncy ball with a laser poking out. Count Dooku would also count because he only used the force to toy with his opponents, he actually picked his new hilt because it was harder to master and it allowed him to use a new lightsaber style.
 

Paradoxrifts

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That's a misleading title if there ever was one. Whoever gets picked is not the best swordsman in fiction. Because the moment they step out from between those arbitrary limitations that have been set, they'll be cut down within seconds by somebody who is superior to the average baseline human.

It's like children arguing whose daddy is strongest, but that the kid whose daddy wrestles bears for a living doesn't count.
 

Rariow

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The player character from KotOR if you're not going for a force power build. At one point, the Big Bad and leader of the Sith throws his entire infantry army at you, not even in the hopes that it'll kill you, just to get a little bit more time. It turns out, it doesn't get him enough.

If that doesn't count, then El Cid. The stories say that the guy was so badass he won a battle whilst dead, as the mere sight of his corpse riding a horse made the enemy turn around and flee. Now, whether that's reality or not is another story, but we are talking about fiction here.
 

Zaldin

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cubikill said:
Al Lan Mandragoran. Is just a man, no superpowers, no cheating move, just skill with a blade. He was an infant while the kingdom of Malkier fell. In his cradle you was given a sword. As other children played withe toys, he learned the blade.
At the age of 16 he took the Malkieri oath of kings a:"To stand against the Shadow so long as iron is hard and stone abides. To defend the Malkieri while one drop of blood remains. To avenge what cannot be defended."
His kingdom and people lost he fights the armies of the shadow.
I have to wonder though, isn't Rand al'Thor technically a better swordsman than he is? (within the books own lore). Currently in the ending part of 'The Gathering Storm' and I'm getting the impression Rand's basically being set up as 'the best swordsman', but that might be me.

Otherwise: War, the horseman of the apocalypse.
 

EvilMaggot

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Tanis said:
Guts from Berserk.

He's pretty much got the whole 'super human without any magical BS' thing down.
-Unless you count the Cursed Armor, but even without that he's taken down GODS.
I will second Guts from Berserk.. he's trained so much.. to be able to wield that Sword. No Magic crap nothing.. just simple pure hard training. Every Day.. And keening his abilities in war and combat.
 

Zeriah

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Nicha11 said:
I would like to nominate Decado the Ice Killer from David Gemmell's writings.
Not only is he recognized as his world's penultimate swordsman, but he literally feels no fear (an enemy attempted to use magic to make him afraid, couldn't do it). Oh and his crowning accomplishment was dueling an enemy who was reading his mind and winning because Decado was just so damned fast that it didn't help (a very cool scene, his opponent sees the blow that kills him a quarter of a second before it does).
Yeah he was my first initial thought. His skill with a blade was the most exaggerated out of any fiction that I've seen if we aren't including superhuman abilities.
 

cubikill

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Zaldin said:
cubikill said:
Al Lan Mandragoran. Is just a man, no superpowers, no cheating move, just skill with a blade. He was an infant while the kingdom of Malkier fell. In his cradle you was given a sword. As other children played withe toys, he learned the blade.
At the age of 16 he took the Malkieri oath of kings a:"To stand against the Shadow so long as iron is hard and stone abides. To defend the Malkieri while one drop of blood remains. To avenge what cannot be defended."
His kingdom and people lost he fights the armies of the shadow.
I have to wonder though, isn't Rand al'Thor technically a better swordsman than he is? (within the books own lore). Currently in the ending part of 'The Gathering Storm' and I'm getting the impression Rand's basically being set up as 'the best swordsman', but that might be me.
Have you read A memory of Light? I wont post spoilers but there is a reason I say Lan and its in that book.
 

Zaldin

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cubikill said:
Zaldin said:
cubikill said:
Al Lan Mandragoran. Is just a man, no superpowers, no cheating move, just skill with a blade. He was an infant while the kingdom of Malkier fell. In his cradle you was given a sword. As other children played withe toys, he learned the blade.
At the age of 16 he took the Malkieri oath of kings a:"To stand against the Shadow so long as iron is hard and stone abides. To defend the Malkieri while one drop of blood remains. To avenge what cannot be defended."
His kingdom and people lost he fights the armies of the shadow.
I have to wonder though, isn't Rand al'Thor technically a better swordsman than he is? (within the books own lore). Currently in the ending part of 'The Gathering Storm' and I'm getting the impression Rand's basically being set up as 'the best swordsman', but that might be me.
Have you read A memory of Light? I wont post spoilers but there is a reason I say Lan and its in that book.
Not yet no, I'm starting Towers of Midnight now, so it'll be a few weeks before I get there. Am looking forward to finishing this series though.
 

Auron225

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Paradoxrifts said:
That's a misleading title if there ever was one. Whoever gets picked is not the best swordsman in fiction. Because the moment they step out from between those arbitrary limitations that have been set, they'll be cut down within seconds by somebody who is superior to the average baseline human.

It's like children arguing whose daddy is strongest, but that the kid whose daddy wrestles bears for a living doesn't count.
I'm inclined to agree. To me the problem is more there are just far too many swordsmen in fiction to consider & compare them all. You could name any swordsman to me now, name him/her the "best swordsman" and challenge me daily to think of a stronger one to hold that title - and I could probably do that for a loooong time. Heck I may even find a loophole and go around in circles (A < B < C < A).

This thread may have been more interesting in one of the rules to start with was "No anime at all". My first guess at "best swordsman" would be Sephiroth, but then Cloud beat him so forget "all of fiction"; he's not even the best swordsman in the FF7 universe. So then Cloud... but I'm sure there is someone better than him. Weiss from Dirge of Cerberus seemed pretty unstoppable. I'm not sure I'd so swiftly conclude that Cloud could kick his ass... I haven't even stepped out of the world of FF7 yet. This discussion will never have a conclusion - I'm gonna get off here I think :p
 

Machine Man 1992

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I nominate Jetstream Sam from Metal Gear Rising Revengence.

He's the last true Samurai.

He's got a katana covered in red lighting.

His scabbard is a gun that shoots his sword into his hand.

He sliced a Metal Gear in half with a single swing.

And in a world where all the best fighters are six foot tall walking heaps of cybernetics, he's a squishy human who kicks the most ass.

Plus his boss theme is the most metal in the entire game.
 

Tiger King

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DataSnake said:
He's more than 10,000 years old and has spent all that time honing his swordfighting skills. He's so dedicated to swordfighting, it earned him a blessing from the God of Excess. Even without his Space Marine augmentations and Chaotic blessings, that's a hundred lifetimes' worth of combat training.
I second lucius.
His skills were already legendary even before he turned to chaos. Ten thousand years of experience would only improve on that!
Someone put foward ciphas Cain earlier, can't see him standing up to this guy.