Who is the Steambox for?

[st0pnsw0p]

I have no idea who Valve is trying to sell the Steambox to. From what we know about it so far, it's really just a gaming PC in console's clothing. It's not even that, in fact; it's a gaming PC that has less functionality than a normal PC, has access to only a fraction of all PC games, and comes with a weird controller. It has no advantage over PC gaming that I can see, and every advantage it has over consoles is something the PC can do even better. I can't see any reason for PC or console gamers to buy it at the moment unless Valve announces something big.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Valve is just dipping their feet into the console river the same way NVidia did with that handheld of theirs. It's an investment not necessarily meant to make a profit.

Atleast that's my opinion.

 

[DoPo]

I have no idea who Valve is trying to sell the Steambox to.

Join the chorus of threads exactly like this one we get every time any kind of news about it appears.

From what we know about it so far, it's really just a gaming PC in console's clothing.

Erm...it's a PC. Simplified a bit but that "in console's clothing" seems to crop up a lot said by people who just had the realisation it isn't. News flash - it isn't. It was even advertised as not being so. I am not sure where the confusion comes from.

It's not even that

What? It's not a PC?

it's a gaming PC that has less functionality than a normal PC

It's a PC. Seriously, what is so hard about that? It. Is. A. PC.

has access to only a fraction of all PC games

You are aware you can stick Windows on it, right? You are aware that by default PCs are not capable of playing any game, right?

and comes with a weird controller

If it's shipped with one. Seems Cyber Power are doing that, but it's not a requirement - another company could just...not do it.

 

[sneakypenguin]

I'm a hardcore PC gamer and general steam fan and I have no idea. Honestly I wish they would have created some 99 dollar streaming plugin for your tv and not made some junky linux spinoff for your gaming hw.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

What? It's not a PC?

Here's the problem with the steambox: it isn't an anything but an OS. There is no hardware standard and, as such, development for the platform will inevitably be the same crapshoot it is on the PC. Worse still, since the OS isn't "Windows" (but, rather, a flavor of linux), a great many games simply won't run in the slightest without emulation (which is far from a perfect solution regardless of the power you can put behind it). Given the relatively small number of linux gaming machines out there, you aren't likely to get proper ports or concerted development for the platform.

Thus we have a product with no hardware standards (a problem for developers and consumers), that isn't the native target platform for anything of note (a problem for people who buy the box), built on an OS that very few people know how to use competently (a problem for people who want to do anything with the box), all being built by multiple parties (thus ensuring no one even knows what they're buying) all put together by a company that has never built an OS or piece of hardware.

The conclusion I've got is that the Steambox is for suckers who will buy it because of the association with Valve and, ultimately, is as likely to do well as the Ouya.

 

[DoPo]

What? It's not a PC?

Here's the problem with the steambox: it isn't an anything but an OS. There is no hardware standard and, as such, development for the platform will inevitably be the same crapshoot it is on the PC.

Right, so it's a PC that is built from PC components and by companies dealing with PC components. But it's not a PC. Because...it's something something something, therefore different. Pray tell, where exactly does the Cyber Power gadget (as it's simply the latest we have news of) fall on the spectrum of computing equipment?

Somehow to me it seems to be pretty much...a PC. It might be the fact that it's a computer also influence by the fact that it is a general purpose one. It might also have to do with this being the definition of PC but I am not sure.

Worse still, since the OS isn't "Windows" (but, rather, a flavor of linux), a great many games simply won't run in the slightest without emulation (which is far from a perfect solution regardless of the power you can put behind it).

1. You also have Wine, though again not a perfect solution, is not emulation. But most importantly, 2.

You are aware you can stick Windows on it, right?

Consider myself astounded I even have to ask that question.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Right, so it's a PC that is built from PC components and by companies dealing with PC components. But it's not a PC. Because...

Because it has a purpose built PC for the purpose of gaming. Combined with it's placement in the living room, the assumed use case requires far less flexibility of purpose than a PC. Flexibility is, ultimately, what defines a PC. A PS2 and a PC are both universal Turing machines and, strictly speaking, capable of performing all the same calculations. Hardware, thus, does not determine what is a PC or not but rather what the hardware is used for.

1. You also have Wine, though again not a perfect solution, is not emulation. But most importantly, 2.

You are aware you can stick Windows on it, right?

Consider myself astounded I even have to ask that question.

Case 1 is emulation - an imperfect solution in all respects. Case 2 is just turning it in to a PC and removing the singlular thing that made it a Steam box. So you argument becomes "Hope emulation works" or "Don't use a steam box".

 

[Smooth Operator]

People who want a gaming PC but are afraid of the PC part... so anyone new to the whole thing.
Let me just tell you that every year around the holidays I get 5-10 calls from my home town as to what PC to buy their kids and how to set it up, and the worst part for me is I usually don't have an answer right then nor could I actually explain it all over the phone, the amount of knowledge you actually have to pass on to a new user is still absurd.

And people get scared by that, do plenty wrong and I end up with their PCs to fix up again, that is the person I would love to just tell get Steambox Basic(or whatever) and then they just get a functional box.

 

[Albino Boo]

Right, so it's a PC that is built from PC components and by companies dealing with PC components. But it's not a PC. Because...it's something something something, therefore different. Pray tell, where exactly does the Cyber Power gadget (as it's simply the latest we have news of) fall on the spectrum of computing equipment?

Somehow to me it seems to be pretty much...a PC. It might be the fact that it's a computer also influence by the fact that it is a general purpose one. It might also have to do with this being the definition of PC but I am not sure.

While you are not wrong in your statements, the confusion arises from the fact Valve have emphasized steambox's use in the same manner as a console. They have made a large point of its use with a big screen TV and a controller rather than the conventional monitor, keyboard and mouse. Valves aim appears to be the console market with that emphasis but with none of the consoles strengths of standardisation but with the consoles limted OS. In my view the steambox concept falls between two stalls of neither being of full console with price drop that standardised hardware brings nor an OS that is a rival to windows. If I can run everything on my standard windows PC and more than steamOS can why am I going to bother with steamOS? I already have my PC plugged into a TV which I use to watch Netflix and alike. There is nothing SteamOS offers that I cannot already achieve with my PC.

 

[DoPo]

Right, so it's a PC that is built from PC components and by companies dealing with PC components. But it's not a PC. Because...

Because it has a purpose built PC for the purpose of gaming.

Like those...whatcha callit, oh, right gaming PCs? Oh wow.

Combined with it's placement in the living room, the assumed use case requires far less flexibility of purpose than a PC.

So-o-o...like a gaming PC? Or an office PC? Both of which have "he assumed use case requires far less flexibility of purpose than a PC" and yet they have it in their names.

Flexibility is, ultimately, what defines a PC.

You can install any OS you want on it (well, you might have difficulty with OS X, though) and you can change the hardware, if you see fit to do so. Therefore, I do not see anything different than a PC. Well, aside from the size and the advertised convenience, then again, it's not radically different, than many a prebuild machine that are already sold. That's what I am most sorprised of - we already have those. It's not a new concept, yet people somehow think Valve came up with an entire new branch of devices. No, we have them - it's slightly different packaging but essentially the same - we already have companies selling pre-build gaming or media PCs and whatever. We have had them for more than a decade and it's now you decide to say "Well, no, that's not actually a PC despite having them around for long enough to vote".

A PS2 and a PC are both universal Turing machines and, strictly speaking, capable of performing all the same calculations. Hardware, thus, does not determine what is a PC or not but rather what the hardware is used for.

And thus while you argue the definition of semantics itself, we have it as a fact that it's a pre-build PC. The kind of things we already have.

1. You also have Wine, though again not a perfect solution, is not emulation. But most importantly, 2.

You are aware you can stick Windows on it, right?

Consider myself astounded I even have to ask that question.

Case 1 is emulation - an imperfect solution in all respects.

Really? Wine Is Not an Emulator is emulation? That's a new one.

Case 2 is just turning it in to a PC and removing the singlular thing that made it a Steam box. So you argument becomes "Hope emulation works" or "Don't use a steam box".

So, basically you are saying hate chocolate and that you kick puppies for living, right?

Let's see it's a PC. It allows you to install a different OS. Therefore, you can install a different OS - the one thing you and OP were complaining about. THOSE WERE MY WORDS! I would appreciate you not making stuff up for it reflects rather poorly on you when you resort to strawmanning, you know.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Really? Wine Is Not an Emulator is emulation? That's a new one.

WINE distinction as "not an emulator" is symantecs at their finest. The distinction, that it translates API calls on the fly, is entirely academic.

So, basically you are saying hate chocolate nd that you kick puppies for living, right?

No, by your definition, Steambox is PC components. Remove the custom OS and install Windows and it become a PC because it loses the thing that made it distinct.

 

[DazZ.]

Remove the custom OS and install Windows and it become a PC because it loses the thing that made it distinct.

What if I remove Windows and put in Steam OS on this computer, does that then make it a Steam Box?

If so, could I also install OSX on this computer and call it a Mac?

What happens if I triple boot all three?

 

[DoPo]

What happens if I triple boot all three?

Simple - then you disappear in a puff of logic.

So, basically you are saying hate chocolate nd that you kick puppies for living, right?

No, by your definition, Steambox is PC components. Remove the custom OS and install Windows and it become a PC because it loses the thing that made it distinct.

While that quote is misattributed - yes. I am not sure why I am required to say it again, but the Steambox is a PC. Therefore, made of PC components. I probably sound like a broken record by this point but it's only because you are relentlessly trying to claim it's not a PC by proving it is. It was a "dedicated" system exactly like gaming PCs, it is capable of being used as a PC and is made of what a PC is made and you made each of this claims. Only to immediately say "therefore, it's not a PC" every time after making those.

You are pretty much failing the duck test here - "It looks like a duck, but it's not a duck. It swims like a duck, but it's not a duck. And quacks like a duck, but it'd not a duck. Then it probably is a duck but it's not a duck."

At any rate, I'd advise against going near zebra crossings - I hear it's dangerous there.

 

[Irridium]

Their target is people who want to get into PC gaming, but don't want to deal with the headaches associated with it [http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1477]. They want to play, but PC gaming can be pretty damn obtuse for newcomers.

 

[Vivi22]

Seems to me that a lot of the naysayers concerns about the Steambox that are being thrown around in this thread could easily be cleared up were they to actually bother reading any information that's been released about them. So far, I see a whole lot of people complaining because they don't get it, rather than complaining about what "it" actually is.

 

[lacktheknack]

In 2006, I bought an Alienware computer.

If I had been in the same state of mind with the same skill level with computers today as I was then, I'd buy a Steam Machine.

Simple. Really really simple.

Also, computer-to-TV streaming.

Also, we're encouraged to hack it, solder crap to it, mod it, etc, and it has a developer-made base for that.

Also, it's pushing Linux forward.

There's lots of reasons to get one (or build your own). Just because YOU don't care about the stuff I mentioned doesn't mean nobody does.

 

[Spartan448]

no-one knows exactly who the Steam Box is for. But we'll all buy it anyway, so who really cares?

 

[Callate]

The Steambox- or more specifically, the SteamOS and related announcements- is basically a bet that Microsoft, having made an enormous error with both gamers and those who prefer more open platforms, will continue to screw up to the point that a rival with an alternative already lying around people's living rooms will merely need to give them a gentle hip-nudge off the cliff.

More broadly, a number of major hardware and software manufacturers have been expressing their dismay with the way Microsoft has handled Windows 8. Combine that with the increasing prominence of independent game makers, there seems to be a window (so to speak) wherein those who were interested in developing for a platform other than Windows could actually make a go of it.

The Steambox is intended to be the ideal receptacle for that platform: A PC with a form factor that will fit under a television, capable of streaming from your Windows computer until such a time as a majority of releases are available for the native OS, and utilizing a combination of Big Picture and the Steam Controller to convince you that using a PC from your living room couch is actually a viable option.

Who is it for? Well, it seems fairly obvious to me that it's intended to people who a) like the upsides of PC gaming but would like to escape their desks, and b) think that Microsoft's recent moves herald the death of Windows as a viable platform, which may or may not be the case.

I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it may well be a longshot to believe that this market is both large enough and growing enough to pull off what amounts to a combination of coup and paradigm change. But I haven't gotten a chance to actually try the Steam controller, and I'd be lying if I said the idea doesn't have a certain appeal; Microsoft's bungling is making it the albatross of PC gaming as a whole. Maybe they'll pull it off.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

I think the argument here about whether a Steam machine is a PC or isn't a PC stems from the differing definitions of PC.

Some people consider a PC to be Windows ONLY: therefore a mac, or an ubuntu linux computer or a steam box wouldn't be a PC.

Others seem to think only computers that are marketed as PCs are PCs. i.e. a steam machine seems to be being marketed like a console therefore it is a console not a PC.

Others consider the HARDWARE to be the dividing factor, meaning that anything that could have Windows/linux installed on it and is made of 'standard' PC components is a PC. This would include Macs (one reason macs didn't used to be considered PCs, you couldn't install other OSs on them), Linux computers, Windows computers, Steam Machines, Steam Boxes, and even computers with an empty hard drive and no OS installed at all.

You are all arguing with different notions of what makes a PC a PC. Semantics at its finest.

take a Steam Machine and empty the hard drive, no OS installed at all. is it a Steam Machine any longer? It sys so on the outside. Or is it a PC? What about if I wipe my macbook's hard drive so it has no OS on it? Is it still a mac? What if I put Steam OS only onto said mac? is it a Steam Machine? a Steam Box?

all semantics.

I 'personally' prescribe to the hardware model above. If I could potentially install windows/linux on it, its a PC.

OT: The Steam Machines are for people who want a PC but don't yet have one, or need to upgrade and like the idea of couch and/or controller gaming too. Or for gamers who want a gaming rig that is plug-and-play with a TV (i.e. console gamers)