Whore of the Orient Title Deemed Racist by City Councilor

[chadachada123]

I was always under the presumption that PEOPLE are Asian, while objects or concepts or locations are Oriental.

This title is not referring to a person, but a location, and so is politically-correct. "Whore of [from] the Orient."

Of course, other English-speaking countries may have different norms, but that has always been the understanding here.

To reiterate, when referring to people, oriental may or may not be offensive. But that isn't the issue here. Orient(al), when referring to a location or object from said location, has never been offensive.

 

[lacktheknack]

http://img.365games.co.uk/pc_and_video_games/games/pc/agatha_christie_murder_on_the_orient_express_xl.jpg

Well, crap.

Not to mention Railroad Tycoon 2, where I built the Oriental Express from Europe all the way to "the Orient".

I... oh... dear...?

EDIT: Apparently, "Orient" is only offensive to some Aussies. Fine. In Australia, let them have "Whore of Asia". That'll go over much better!

 

[Sixcess]

Is this SERIOUSLY an issue? And if yes, how the HELL is it this neglected in every are except this particular game title?

I said mildly offensive. Mildly.

It's all about context. A restaurant entitled "Star of the Orient" or "The Orient Express" or whatever... not really a problem. A game called "Whore of the Orient"... c'mon, do you really think, seriously, that when the developer decided that was what they'd call the game it wouldn't cause a stir?

Really?

As to whether they knew about it or not... well as I said, if they didn't they do know - so they can claim either indifference or ignorance I suppose.

I knew about it mostly from reading old pulp stories and historical works about the setting/era... and reading about them. That's when it tends to come up that "orient" isn't an entirely acceptable word these days. Is it too much to ask that a developer working on a game with such a setting should do some research first? Or that a developer setting a game in a historical setting should be aware that said setting and the characters therein will not necessarily reflect current attitudes to race and racial language and, oh I dunno, perhaps think twice about throwing those attitudes right up there in the title of the game?

 

[EvilRoy]

Is this SERIOUSLY an issue? And if yes, how the HELL is it this neglected in every are except this particular game title?

I said mildly offensive. Mildly.

It's all about context. A restaurant entitled "Star of the Orient" or "The Orient Express" or whatever... not really a problem. A game called "Whore of the Orient"... c'mon, do you really think, seriously, that when the developer decided that was what they'd call the game it wouldn't cause a stir?

Really?

As to whether they knew about it or not... well as I said, if they didn't they do know - so they can claim either indifference or ignorance I suppose.

I knew about it mostly from reading old pulp stories and historical works about the setting/era... and reading about them. That's when it tends to come up that "orient" isn't an entirely acceptable word these days. Is it too much to ask that a developer working on a game with such a setting should do some research first? Or that a developer setting a game in a historical setting should be aware that said setting and the characters therein will not necessarily reflect current attitudes to race and racial language and, oh I dunno, perhaps think twice about throwing those attitudes right up there in the title of the game?

Not trying to be a douche here, but I don't understand. Why is "Whore of the Orient" not acceptable, but "Star of the Orient" is acceptable?

 

[Forobryt]

Damn and to think for years whilst at school i took part in Orienteering. Guess that means those maps and compasses were racist. I knew that one compass i had once was bad news.

Whore of the Orient Title Deemed Racist by City Councilor

"The O-word is very similar to the N-word for African-American communities," said Lo. "It's a 19th century racial-colonial conception and it's especially painful for older people in the communities. That was a very bad time in China, and people don't want or need to have that dragged up."

Though i must say his whole thing on "the older people of the community" not needing to be reminded of it, ok i get that but really how many of them are going to buy the game? or even know it exists.

And why have we only just now heard about it being a racist term.

Captcha: rebuke a wise man.
now look captcha thats a stereotype of china too, being full of wise men thats just uncalled for.

 

[Zeldias]

Orient and oriental are pretty racist terms (originating from colonial whites), so that was troubling. It makes me concerned about what's going on in the game itself.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

What on earth is wrong with the word "Orient"? It describes a region. It's common parlance here in Blighty, I didn't even realise there was any connotations attached to it whatsoever, negative or otherwise.

 

[OManoghue]

If it was 'oriental' I'd understand his problem with the title, however orient is just a term now a days, and while yes it does bring up issues of racism, maybe it's supposed to.

After this press release I'm very curious as to what this game is about.

 

[Drake Barrow]

I have a bit of affection for the pulps, so a game set in Shanghai circa 1936 sounds intriguing.

OT: The use of the term 'Orient' as a racially offensive thing is news to me. The only reference I have to the grade of offense is the use of 'Burma' for Myanmar. Then again, I live stateside, and the circles I move in don't normally have call to use the term. We're also a bit PC-crazed here. Perhaps, just perhaps, the title of this game is a clever plot by The Glorious PC Gaming Master Race?

*crickets, silence*

Alright, that joke fell flat.

 

[elvor0]

Called it.

Whore of the Orient?

Well that title seems certain to get changed before release. Leaving aside the obvious, 'Orient' is a somewhat archaic term, and regarded as mildly offensive by some these days.

If I knew it two years ago then sure as shit so did the developer, and if he didn't... well, he should have and he does now. Let's not mount our hobby horses for another round of the Free Speech Crusade. He knew this was going to cause offense.

Well you seem to be massively in the minority here. Whore...yeah I can see people kicking up a fuss about that, but Orient?

I dunno about you, but in the UK it's in no way considered an offensive word. This is the first I've /ever/ heard anyone kicking up a fuss about the word, if Chinese people are happy to call their takeaways "Oriental Takeaway" or whatever, I'm pretty sure they don't find it offensive. It literally means "east". Seriously there are some foul ways I could describe south asian people and none of them include the word "Orient(al)". About the closest way Oriental could be considered offensive is it being cockney slang for "mental", and then that's just because it rhymes. You appear the be the only who "knew" that Oriental was offensive, for the rest of us, this is breaking news.

 

[EHKOS]

There's a porno with the same name. I'm not surprised people are taking offense. I am however, surprised anyone thought it was a good idea to name their game something like that.

 

[SecondPrize]

I could see a title like "Oriental Whore" being a cause for offense but not this one. The funny thing about the words Orient and oriental is that they are, in fact, two different words and cannot be used interchangeably.

 

[Something Amyss]

Huh.

I know "orient" and "oriental" are old terms, no longer used and probably not considered correct, but I didn't know they were considered racist or offensive or whatnot. I always thought it was just an old word for Asia.

Is this a widely held view, or is this chap just being a prat?

I wouldn't say widely-held, but it is common enough. Still likely being a prat.

Oriental is as much a geographical region as a "black country".

Oriental refers to East with reference to Europe and is more of a geographical location because continued usage of the word had ntohing to do with a specific racial group. Unless you consider Indians to be the same "race" as the Chinese or Japanese. I know they're Asian by geography, but most people segregate them.

Use of "Oriental" and "Occidental" have fallen out of use, but while "******" simply refers to black people, "Oriental" does not simply refer to Asian people. As slurs go, Oriental has always been rather soft. If you're comparing it to "******," "*****" or "gook" is a more apt parallel.

"Whore of the orient" is a historical nickname, yes, but it was one that wasn't coined with particularly egalitarian sentiments in mind. Really, "people used to use that" isn't a good defense.

But I demand historical accuracy (where convenient to me)!

I think that's what it boils down to, at least.

Er, that does not mean it's not offensive. This is hardly the only person to be offended by the word "oriental".

Not only that, but "******" has descriptive power, too. I doubt anyone's going to say it's not an offensive term.

I don't care if Indian is used to describe another people. It was used to misrepresent my people, and therefore must never be used again because of reasons.

It's nice to see all racses and cultures come together in the tradition of the beating of the strawman.

Has anyone actually ever said that? I'd be amazed.

Although, side note: I'm half native. I say native because "Native American" is the term I've grown up with.

It's really amazing how many (completely) white folk tell me that the proper term is "American Indian" or something else. Or even better, being told what "they" prefer.

Because Natives/Indians/whatever you want to call 'em are a hivemind in the first place.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

Is this SERIOUSLY an issue? And if yes, how the HELL is it this neglected in every are except this particular game title?

I said mildly offensive. Mildly.

It's all about context. A restaurant entitled "Star of the Orient" or "The Orient Express" or whatever... not really a problem. A game called "Whore of the Orient"... c'mon, do you really think, seriously, that when the developer decided that was what they'd call the game it wouldn't cause a stir?

Really?

As to whether they knew about it or not... well as I said, if they didn't they do know - so they can claim either indifference or ignorance I suppose.

I knew about it mostly from reading old pulp stories and historical works about the setting/era... and reading about them. That's when it tends to come up that "orient" isn't an entirely acceptable word these days. Is it too much to ask that a developer working on a game with such a setting should do some research first? Or that a developer setting a game in a historical setting should be aware that said setting and the characters therein will not necessarily reflect current attitudes to race and racial language and, oh I dunno, perhaps think twice about throwing those attitudes right up there in the title of the game?

1. Anything can cause a stir, I never commented on that. Merely pointing out that this SHOULDN'T HAVE, since it's so commonly used nowadays.

2. I can perceive no reason why this particular combination of words would be relevant. "Whore" is a noun used to describe sex workers, it's offensive when used as an insult. What's your point?

3. Language shifts meaning. There really is no yes or no answer to whether or not they can use a previously offensive word of that era to describe the attitudes of that era, or if the early 19th century (or 45 years ago, I really don't know, point is the CURRENT situation) counts as recent enough to be relevant. I mean the word villain was originally a derogatory slur against the poor, but obviously there's no question about whether or not we can use it and if I used in a title of a book about the 14th century there would be no problem. It's all about how people feel.

So it's really purely a subjective matter. Where's the line?

In my opinion if the first and second and third person I'm hearing it from are all purely concerned about whether or not other people are offended? Probably not an issue.

I find it very difficult to believe it's really such an offensive word when it's so commonly used. Can you imagine ****** or ****** being used to describe a clothing line? There'd be a fucking RIOT.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Its Australia so I guess not many are that suprised

Not surprised? I was expect to see 'Australia' in the opening. I was no disappointed. Not even with the limp dicked justification for the objection, it was exactly what I expected.

now I can resume rolling me eyes and go back to doing something else.

 

[AstaresPanda]

Huh.

I know "orient" and "oriental" are old terms, no longer used and probably not considered correct, but I didn't know they were considered racist or offensive or whatnot. I always thought it was just an old word for Asia.

Is this a widely held view, or is this chap just being a prat?

Its not the word is the rasist asshole using it. Its a descriptive word. If people get offended so easily then thats their dam problem. Hate all this political correctness crap. Hows about they ask the ASIANS if they are offended by it ?

 

[Brian Tams]

What the actual fuck, guys?

Whore of the Orient is an old nickname for Shanghai. The game takes place in Shanghai during this time period. The title is done this way because it's historically accurate.

From wikipedia: "Set in Shanghai in 1936, the game is centered upon a corrupt city in the hands of Western powers, filled with mob crime and political troubles. The Kuomintang ruthlessly puts down labor movements in an effort to supress communism, whilst the International Police Force attempt to keep the peace."

Here's the link to the game so you can educate yourselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_the_Orient

If you want to keep words that you find offensive out of contemporary works, fine. But it's a disgrace to ask such a thing of works that are supposed to be historic. What you're doing is rewriting history, which is dangerous, just because you don't want to ruffle a few hundred feathers? Get over yourself.

While you're at it, why don't you scribble out all the usages of the "N" word in books like Huck Finn with a sharpie?

 

[RicoADF]

Called it.

Whore of the Orient?

Well that title seems certain to get changed before release. Leaving aside the obvious, 'Orient' is a somewhat archaic term, and regarded as mildly offensive by some these days.

If I knew it two years ago then sure as shit so did the developer, and if he didn't... well, he should have and he does now. Let's not mount our hobby horses for another round of the Free Speech Crusade. He knew this was going to cause offense.

It's not considered a racist term though, heck we have oriental noodles on the store shelves. It sounds more like this guy is stirring crap for some kind of personal gain, probably his position.
I hope he gers fined for wasting the international humans rights time.

 

[hooblabla6262]

I don't care if Indian is used to describe another people. It was used to misrepresent my people, and therefore must never be used again because of reasons.

It's nice to see all racses and cultures come together in the tradition of the beating of the strawman.

Has anyone actually ever said that? I'd be amazed.

Although, side note: I'm half native. I say native because "Native American" is the term I've grown up with.

It's really amazing how many (completely) white folk tell me that the proper term is "American Indian" or something else. Or even better, being told what "they" prefer.

Because Natives/Indians/whatever you want to call 'em are a hivemind in the first place.

I wonder if the government will ever change the name of Indian Affairs(Canada).
Not that I'm offended in a racial way. Just think we should fix this silly inaccuracy.