Why all the hate for TOR?
- Thread starter Riptide1
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A lot of people are just skeptical. Some are just jaded and miffed from past bitter experiences with MMOs. Some of us have been around for a while, and we keep an "eagle's eye" on the goings ons of the MMO world.
That being said, I'm personally looking forward to the Old Republic. It's definitely not very unique however, and I recognize this. It's not going for a "target audience", it's trying to hit everyone. So it might turn out to be a rather 'simple' experience.
I'm also not a fan of the, 'you will play as a hero of the universe' crap, because it goes against all the reasons why I want to play a MMO. I want to play in an online world, and be a part of it. Journeying to common goals with others, and only being able to conquer great things with the aid of a trusty band of adventurers. As a community. "Everyone is a big hero" is going the way of Age of Conan, which was just sad. There is literally only one story that everyone follows in AoC, and the story is literally: "You are the lone hero/savior" story. Pathetic and it rips you away from the immersion of the world.
However, TOR's "story" is going to be very dynamic, and will vary greatly based on your choice of class and faction. It also changes based on your decisions and your companions, similar to past Bioware games. So I'll be able to live with it, and hopefully feel immersed in a world with others all the same.
That being said, I'm personally looking forward to the Old Republic. It's definitely not very unique however, and I recognize this. It's not going for a "target audience", it's trying to hit everyone. So it might turn out to be a rather 'simple' experience.
I'm also not a fan of the, 'you will play as a hero of the universe' crap, because it goes against all the reasons why I want to play a MMO. I want to play in an online world, and be a part of it. Journeying to common goals with others, and only being able to conquer great things with the aid of a trusty band of adventurers. As a community. "Everyone is a big hero" is going the way of Age of Conan, which was just sad. There is literally only one story that everyone follows in AoC, and the story is literally: "You are the lone hero/savior" story. Pathetic and it rips you away from the immersion of the world.
However, TOR's "story" is going to be very dynamic, and will vary greatly based on your choice of class and faction. It also changes based on your decisions and your companions, similar to past Bioware games. So I'll be able to live with it, and hopefully feel immersed in a world with others all the same.
Bioware's record gives it a 10, added crappy mmorpg elements diminishes that. You can't just say a dev house that has made outstanding singleplayer RPG games will make a MMORPG game that will be of the same quality.joebear15 said:
That is like saying just because someone is good at making novels, they could automatically direct movies just as well. Sure both jobs are telling a story, but talent doesn't transfer that way.
I don't hate MMORPGs either, but there are ways to make them and there are ways not too. In my head a MMORPG should be like a table-top RPG, a conduit to play out an adventure with friends in a vast world. 90% of MMORPGs out there have one point, and that is to grind away levels to be the best of the best, then..... profit?BakaSmurf said:
Make an MMO that gives me the freedom to really RPG, than we'll talk.
I'd say its more like a car company branching out to make trains. (One transports one or two people, the other is mass transit, get it?)joebear15 said:
Sure, they might not be crap, but most assuredly they aren't going to be the next masterpiece. If this was their second go at an MMORPG I wouldn't be so hostile. The fact that they are taking a very good universe that already has been taking a huge blow to its credibility and image (See, Star wars the force unleashed 2) for the last couple of years.
Sony already tried and ruined Starwars Galaxies, and they had a history in MMORPGs, whos to say this new player in the market can do any better?
...You serious?Nimcha said:
They've been saying Q1 of 2011 for almost a year now. At the very latest, they've said, it'll be out September 2011.
Best be checkin' your facts. <.<
As far as I care for the actual topic at hand, I haven't seen much hate. Perhaps a few people being too overly judgmental because they have not done the thorough research, or biased people who hate MMO's.
And I say fuck em. I have never taken off time from anything to play a game, but I WILL be taking a week off, no matter what, when TOR is released. I can't be taken seriously as Big Boss if I'm level 1, now can I? ;]
It's "I've." Please get it right...It's hard to take you seriously when you're so lazy you can't type out a three letter word.Riptide1 said:
I'm looking forward to TOR, but I really hope it ends up being a practice run so Bioware can get experience in making an MMO before starting on Mass Effect the MMO.
I mean, I've always been a huge Star Wars fan but I think Mass Effect is a much more interesting universe. Besides, Star Wars games seem to have a pretty poor track record, the only ones I enjoyed were the X-Wing & TIE Fighter games.
[sub]Yes, that's right, I didn't even like KOTOR! Well, KOTOR II anyway, I found that so lacking in fun I never even bothered looking for the first one.[/sub]
I mean, I've always been a huge Star Wars fan but I think Mass Effect is a much more interesting universe. Besides, Star Wars games seem to have a pretty poor track record, the only ones I enjoyed were the X-Wing & TIE Fighter games.
[sub]Yes, that's right, I didn't even like KOTOR! Well, KOTOR II anyway, I found that so lacking in fun I never even bothered looking for the first one.[/sub]
BakaSmurf said:
Guess what fool, stating that MMO's have tedious leveling systems does not, in fact, mean that one hates MMO's, it means that MMO's have tedious leveling systems, which is the truth. Your logic is flawed, and thus your argument is invalid, not to mention you calling me lazy for agreeing with another poster instead of typing out my own reasons for why I don't like the TOR, which is just plain stupid seeing as how he already listed most of the reasons that I'm not looking forward to TOR, why the hell would I just re-type them out myself?joebear15 said:
Why the hate?
I don't want to pay 40-60$ for the game and 20$ a month for the freaking sub fee.
AND I don't want to have to deal with other people while I'm playing my RPG's.
I don't want to pay 40-60$ for the game and 20$ a month for the freaking sub fee.
AND I don't want to have to deal with other people while I'm playing my RPG's.
I can. I've actually been keeping a close eye on it, so I can confirm that this "logic" is mired in misinformation.Jkudo said:
1. Tedious Leveling - This isn't actually to do with TOR news, but the nature of MMOs. You cannot escape grinding in an MMO. It's just not possible. With an MMO, you've got to try and keep players playing your game, and therefore paying, for as long as possible. Grinding stretches the game out. You genuinly cannot build an MMO without it. That said, the "objective", as it were, is to make grinding more interesting. Bioware are attempting to do this in TOR, and we have no idea if they'll succeed at that until Open Beta. It is pointless to make an assumption about it at this point.
2. Every character does not follow the same story line. God alone knows where you heard that since Bioware have constantly stressed each class has its own unique storyline. *pauses* Though I suppose you might mean "there are 1000 Sith Warriors running around following the same story, and 1000 Bounty Hunters doing a different one". This is true, but do you expect a Bioware employee to personally write a story for every player or something? How exactly can you correct such a thing? Presumably the dialogue paths (and branched quests, which are confirmed to exist, by the way) are not enough for you. Oh, and while you're at it, explain to me how that's different to a single player game?
In fact, these seem more like complaints leveled at MMOs as a genre, rather than TOR itself. Ok, you (maybe) don't like MMOs, fair enough. I don't like sports games. Do you see me trolling every thread about Fifa 2011 or whatever? If you don't like a genre, just stay away from it, because there's over 10 million people out there who actually DO like MMOs.
Perhaps there's a little hurt over the fact it's not KOTOR 3. But you may as well complain that they're wasting effort on Dragon Age 2 instead of making Mass Effect 3 (note; I know it's announced and dated, but for the interests of this example, let's pretend it's not). I'll admit I'd like to see a KOTOR 3, but I don't see how that relates to TOR. They'd not necessarily be making one if they weren't the other.
Well i'll give you the simple explanation:
At first loads and loads of people said they thought it was going to be great, everything they saw about it they loved, after a while these people realised everyone else thought it was great and decided that they had to be on the cool train with all the other edgy people and decided that they actually hated it.
Personally I don't like it but it's pretty much down to the fact that I never liked Star Wars.
At first loads and loads of people said they thought it was going to be great, everything they saw about it they loved, after a while these people realised everyone else thought it was great and decided that they had to be on the cool train with all the other edgy people and decided that they actually hated it.
Personally I don't like it but it's pretty much down to the fact that I never liked Star Wars.
The problem I have with people too quick to spout "WoW clone" shenanigans is that they often don't have anything but speculation to back up their claims. This isn't based on mechanics of the game because that information really hasn't been released yet. It obviously isn't based on Bioware's track record or Star Wars' track record. It is solely based on someone's speculation and THEIR track record with MMOs.
How do you know what the story will be for the different classes? You don't have anything to support these claims except what other MMOs have done in the past but is not at all a requirement for the genre. As for "everyone playing the same story" you obviously haven't even went so far as to read the mission statement behind the development of TOR. It is being developed with that in mind and intentionally offering multiple stories. As in playing a different class isn't just a different wall of text but a different quest line.
I am not saying that TOR is going to be some revolutionary thing for sure. I am pretty confident GW2 will be at this point which is also considered a "WoW clone". I personally am interested to see the mechanics they will introduce but won't be buying the game upon release. I have my doubts concerning it but none of them are concrete or even speculative. I'm just waiting to see what they do and so far everything they have mentioned is plausible, not garbage.
TL;DR: If you ever hear refer to something directly as a "WoW clone" dismiss everything they have to say. Especially, if no real information on the game in question has been released.
Not all MMOs have tedious leveling. It is common in them but it is not a requirement to fit the genre. Guild Wars has proven you can be successful without them. Actually, Guild Wars is proof that WoW is not a testament of "everything MMOs have to do to make money." Personally, I think they should all do away with tedious leveling anyway as most of them abandon it after 1-2 expansions anyway and allow people to tear through levels off of special "xp pump" mobs so that new players can catch up to the vets faster.Ossian said:
How do you know what the story will be for the different classes? You don't have anything to support these claims except what other MMOs have done in the past but is not at all a requirement for the genre. As for "everyone playing the same story" you obviously haven't even went so far as to read the mission statement behind the development of TOR. It is being developed with that in mind and intentionally offering multiple stories. As in playing a different class isn't just a different wall of text but a different quest line.
I am not saying that TOR is going to be some revolutionary thing for sure. I am pretty confident GW2 will be at this point which is also considered a "WoW clone". I personally am interested to see the mechanics they will introduce but won't be buying the game upon release. I have my doubts concerning it but none of them are concrete or even speculative. I'm just waiting to see what they do and so far everything they have mentioned is plausible, not garbage.
TL;DR: If you ever hear refer to something directly as a "WoW clone" dismiss everything they have to say. Especially, if no real information on the game in question has been released.
Like I've said 1000 times, I'm not miffed about an Old Republic MMO, if they want to do it its their prerogative. What I DON'T like is that they won't consider even making a KotOR 3. I don't like MMORPG's, I don't like having to pay for a game over and over again, I like gaming alone or with a friend in the room (when it comes to RPG's) and I don't game on my PC. That's also a major factor, not everyone plays on the PC, some just like the ease of use of a console. Again its great that they're making this MMO, I just don't plan on playing it.
I wouldn't call it logic either but i was too lazy to explain what you pretty much perfectly laid out in your post. Well done! I mean, i've played Kotor....if you can be half as immersed in TOR as you are in the first game then they have a winner. I guess single player vs mmorpg is kinda like being immersed in a story as opposed to a world, great examples of both should have both though.InevitableFate said: