Why All the Hate on Naruto?
- Thread starter Thaius
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A fictional one.attackshark said:
If you also didn't notice, they are raising their kids to be little soldiers as if that wasn't unethical enough, they tend to enjoy a good little genocide once in a while. And Naruto being given his apartment and all might have something to do with his *cough* pretty V.I.P nature despite being hated upon by the ignorant masses.
I LOVE filler. Anyone complaining about filler in an anime is freaking retarded. It's a GREAT way for the audience to connect more with the characters (doing more realistic things and such) as well as develop the character in more ways than possible than keeping them in a strict story-oriented plot that is most likely serious (Naruto would have been ten times more annoying if it was no filler, and all action. Imagine how many speeches about friendship and love and puppies and clowns you'd hear.
That being said, that's one reason I hate the show. The terribly cliched character design. While all show's characters these days really fall under an archetype because of the mass amounts of fictional characters existing today, Naruto's characters just seems to use and combine all the ones that piss me off the most. All while butchering what ninjas are actually about, but that's not the main point.
If you don't like the characters, you can't like the show really. And when the plot is just really endless (I hate animes that drag on for more than 40 episodes), really god damn boring and repetitive, it just adds to the hate cake. In my honest opinion.
That being said, that's one reason I hate the show. The terribly cliched character design. While all show's characters these days really fall under an archetype because of the mass amounts of fictional characters existing today, Naruto's characters just seems to use and combine all the ones that piss me off the most. All while butchering what ninjas are actually about, but that's not the main point.
If you don't like the characters, you can't like the show really. And when the plot is just really endless (I hate animes that drag on for more than 40 episodes), really god damn boring and repetitive, it just adds to the hate cake. In my honest opinion.
This.AwesomeNinjaPowers said:
I've watched it and enjoyed some of it but also hated parts as well. For me its not a like or hate thing, just the fact that some of the fans just wont shut up or allow for any criticism or it.
Nothing like giving out a small review to a friend about Naruto's high and low points only to be cut off by some raving fan.
personally I love Naruto, I know that statement isn't likely to make me any friends but the soundtrack, characters, and overall story are all awesome, and if you don't like filler, don't watch it, skip ahead, simple as that, I don't even see what the problem with filler is, it gives minor characters a chance to shine, I'm part way through watching the "curry of life" arc, well I agree that the concept of such a thing is ridiculous but I don't care Rock Lee is one of my favorite characters and he's actually getting screen-time since he can't get any in the non-filler episodes there's another practical use for filler,
I tried watching it when it first aired, but was immediately turned off by the main characters(expect for the one older guy with the weird eye he was okay), too much filler and talking in the middle of fights(DBZ killed my tolerance for that), and I didn't think the fighting was near interesting enough to make up for the things I didn't like.
Doesn't help that when I think of anime ninjas I think more of Ninja Scroll and Wrath of the Ninja than teenagers with headbands and magic.
Doesn't help that when I think of anime ninjas I think more of Ninja Scroll and Wrath of the Ninja than teenagers with headbands and magic.
*I will discuss some other anime in the text of this post so there are some spoilers, please avert your eyes if this is something you wish to avoid.*
I would say that attempting to justify the strong distaste many people have for Naruto as simple "hipster" mentality is both lazy and disengenuous. It is true that any popular franchise will have its haters and for unpopular franchises, these haters simply outnumber its fans. Given how many people have expressed reasons why they dislike Naruto, simply saying "its popular therefore they hate it" is in a way revealing that you have no true counterpoint aside from a strawman argument.
Franchises can be popular without having very much merit in the terms of literature, film or art. That is fine, this is after all the mass media which focuses on entertainment. Its end goal is not to create works of art but to service the needs of its audience. The problem I believe is that Naruto's fandom contains elements which tend to push it as the best thing to hit anime since Tezuka picked up a pen. Its not.
Throughout the thread there are many valid arguments made. That the story drags or interesting characters fall by the wayside. We've seen the former many times such as the Namek Arc of Dragonball Z. DGZ is another old favourite that sometimes contained episodes that comprized mainly of muscular men grunting at each other for the better part of half-an-hour. Believe you me its sometimes difficult to explain to Junior why Daddy ever watched such a show. After a certain period of time, just about every character that was not capable of becoming a super saiyajin was essentially cannon fodder or plot device. Death Note also entered into a downward spiral when L died and never truly recovered its former heights. In either case when the relationship between the characters take a dive, so does the quality of the work. Not everyone will identify with the main characters and the auxillary cast keeps us both engaged and entertained. Cutting them out (or in the case of Naruto, cutting them UP) is not always a good thing.
In the case of Naruto, I personally do not enjoy the antics of the titular character. It may seem endearing to some and others can identify with the teenage angst that is pretty much the early characterization of Naruto. That he attempts to transcend his birth and become a person that others would respect is a noble and worthwhile goal. And I believe that this is where a lot of people get engaged in the story as plenty of people can empathize with such a motivation. That he is an annoying teenager makes him more authentic; adults know that teenagers can be annoying, having one that acts like a real teenager is sometimes refreshing. Bleach's Ichigo is a noble person who helps the helpless, protects his friends and pretty much saves the day. You may as well have tattooed "Hero" on his forehead since his characterization hinges on it. It may be ironic but as much as young Naruto annoyed me, I enjoyed him more than the Ninja Jesus that has taken his place. At least Avatar the Last Airbender's Aang grew into the role and that was the entire point of his narrative. Naruto went from "Sasuke I will save you!" to the Messiah with not all that much prelude.
The character of Sasuke however has proved divisive; he is popular with a portion of the fandom but is loathed by another. He is, in many ways, the antithesis of Naruto. An in-born genius whose goals are ultimately destructive and, some would argue, self-destructive. He is a wish-fulfillment character and Superman has been a beloved character for decades so I believe that speaks of the degree of staying power that such characters can have. However, Sasuke is, charitably, not a nice person. Essentially we are watching a very psychologically damaged young man with incredible power seasoned with burgeoning sociopathy. Its little wonder that more than a few people do not enjoy his place as secondary (or even primary) protagonist/antagonist. For some the fact that he is really, really pretty absolves Sasuke of everything up to and including murder. For others... not so much.
Add onto this the aforementioned loss of supporting cast and I think you can catch a glimpse of why Naruto is not as well liked as it can be. Overall I believe that it is a decent work that jumps up to a good level of quality when its on song. However the hate surrounding it comes from a combination of frustration, dashed hopes and obnoxious elements of the fanbase. It think its likely the third that gives Naruto the kind of visibility that provokes an extreme antipathy that outstrips the rest of its cohort in the current Shonen trinity, Bleach and One Piece. The latter two have their own hatedom but rarely do we see the sheer numbers or depth of feeling as the Naruto hatedom. What seperates them is the number of militant fans who, honestly, give the rest of them a bad name. By no means are Naruto fans obnoxious but they do harbour in their ranks individuals who are and its contributing to their favourite anime becoming a byword for over-hyped drivel. Ironic and sad really.
I would say that attempting to justify the strong distaste many people have for Naruto as simple "hipster" mentality is both lazy and disengenuous. It is true that any popular franchise will have its haters and for unpopular franchises, these haters simply outnumber its fans. Given how many people have expressed reasons why they dislike Naruto, simply saying "its popular therefore they hate it" is in a way revealing that you have no true counterpoint aside from a strawman argument.
Franchises can be popular without having very much merit in the terms of literature, film or art. That is fine, this is after all the mass media which focuses on entertainment. Its end goal is not to create works of art but to service the needs of its audience. The problem I believe is that Naruto's fandom contains elements which tend to push it as the best thing to hit anime since Tezuka picked up a pen. Its not.
Throughout the thread there are many valid arguments made. That the story drags or interesting characters fall by the wayside. We've seen the former many times such as the Namek Arc of Dragonball Z. DGZ is another old favourite that sometimes contained episodes that comprized mainly of muscular men grunting at each other for the better part of half-an-hour. Believe you me its sometimes difficult to explain to Junior why Daddy ever watched such a show. After a certain period of time, just about every character that was not capable of becoming a super saiyajin was essentially cannon fodder or plot device. Death Note also entered into a downward spiral when L died and never truly recovered its former heights. In either case when the relationship between the characters take a dive, so does the quality of the work. Not everyone will identify with the main characters and the auxillary cast keeps us both engaged and entertained. Cutting them out (or in the case of Naruto, cutting them UP) is not always a good thing.
In the case of Naruto, I personally do not enjoy the antics of the titular character. It may seem endearing to some and others can identify with the teenage angst that is pretty much the early characterization of Naruto. That he attempts to transcend his birth and become a person that others would respect is a noble and worthwhile goal. And I believe that this is where a lot of people get engaged in the story as plenty of people can empathize with such a motivation. That he is an annoying teenager makes him more authentic; adults know that teenagers can be annoying, having one that acts like a real teenager is sometimes refreshing. Bleach's Ichigo is a noble person who helps the helpless, protects his friends and pretty much saves the day. You may as well have tattooed "Hero" on his forehead since his characterization hinges on it. It may be ironic but as much as young Naruto annoyed me, I enjoyed him more than the Ninja Jesus that has taken his place. At least Avatar the Last Airbender's Aang grew into the role and that was the entire point of his narrative. Naruto went from "Sasuke I will save you!" to the Messiah with not all that much prelude.
The character of Sasuke however has proved divisive; he is popular with a portion of the fandom but is loathed by another. He is, in many ways, the antithesis of Naruto. An in-born genius whose goals are ultimately destructive and, some would argue, self-destructive. He is a wish-fulfillment character and Superman has been a beloved character for decades so I believe that speaks of the degree of staying power that such characters can have. However, Sasuke is, charitably, not a nice person. Essentially we are watching a very psychologically damaged young man with incredible power seasoned with burgeoning sociopathy. Its little wonder that more than a few people do not enjoy his place as secondary (or even primary) protagonist/antagonist. For some the fact that he is really, really pretty absolves Sasuke of everything up to and including murder. For others... not so much.
Add onto this the aforementioned loss of supporting cast and I think you can catch a glimpse of why Naruto is not as well liked as it can be. Overall I believe that it is a decent work that jumps up to a good level of quality when its on song. However the hate surrounding it comes from a combination of frustration, dashed hopes and obnoxious elements of the fanbase. It think its likely the third that gives Naruto the kind of visibility that provokes an extreme antipathy that outstrips the rest of its cohort in the current Shonen trinity, Bleach and One Piece. The latter two have their own hatedom but rarely do we see the sheer numbers or depth of feeling as the Naruto hatedom. What seperates them is the number of militant fans who, honestly, give the rest of them a bad name. By no means are Naruto fans obnoxious but they do harbour in their ranks individuals who are and its contributing to their favourite anime becoming a byword for over-hyped drivel. Ironic and sad really.
...you asked why people don't like Naruto, and then said that they're not allowed to dislike it for this reason? That's silly.Thaius said:
The English dub was the main thing I found so irksome, but sticking with it long enough, the translations get much less obnoxious and the voice acting stops grating quite so much.
This is a bit of a tangent, but, personally, I'm not a fan of watching anime in Japanese since I don't speak the language. And I've always been very suspicious of claims that you need to watch something in a language you don't speak to fully appreciate it. Something isn't magically better because it was the original, especially if you can't actually understand the original. These weird "purity" arguments over subs are just that - weird. The "original" experience was predicated on the viewer actually understanding the speech, so I'd say that having speech you can understand goes a lot further toward replicating the "original" experience than hearing a collection of sounds and vaguely interpretable intonational patterns (bearing in mind especially that Japanese has quite distinct intonational patterns than English, despite how often people claim that they "totally understand" the intonation of Japanese with absolutely no training) while reading a translation at the bottom of the screen.
Also, some of the fights really do drag on. Episode after episode comprised mostly of people standing still with angsty monologue about how they're not sure they can win this one (spoiler alert: they can). I cannot even begin to count the number of times someone has gotten hurt, not been able to go on, had a nice monologue, and then somehow got back up after their great epiphany before suddenly becoming more powerful than before they were horribly maimed. It's a good way to build dramatic tension, but the show definitely overuses these things. And some of the animation is obscenely cheap - think of the fight with Sasori where they're just moving a static picture of Sakura back and forth to show that she's "dodging" needles for a total of about five minutes.
That said, I don't know of any other fighting anime that's as fun to watch when it really gets good. The animation can be really impressive, the powers are always fun, and the show does an amazing job at actually using the powers in interesting ways and combinations rather than just using them the same way over and over and constantly rolling out new powers to keep things interesting.
They are all horrible ninja, I can see every one
Heh had to, but on topic, i dont hate it but i dont like it or plan to watch it because im already a couple hundred eps behind on it, and from what i saw on TV just randomly around, I will stick to the abridged series its much more entertaining
Heh had to, but on topic, i dont hate it but i dont like it or plan to watch it because im already a couple hundred eps behind on it, and from what i saw on TV just randomly around, I will stick to the abridged series its much more entertaining
No, no, you were right at the beginning - Naruto is just the cool thing to hate.
Actually, let me take it a step further - it's actually the anime community's guilty pleasure.
People will complain or hate on it A LOT, but the fact is, when you go to any con these same people will still cheer louder when a Kakashi cosplayer comes up on stage than for anyone else.
So yeah, everyone hates on it but then everyone secretly loves it too.
The faults you listed (annoying as they are) are just as bad in Bleach, which hasn't garnered nearly as much hate for it (in fact it's gotten so bad in Bleach that they've been making very overt jokes about it since the Ulquiora fight).
For my own position, I quite enjoyed Naruto, though I don't consider myself a huge fan and I'm nowhere near up to date.
Actually, let me take it a step further - it's actually the anime community's guilty pleasure.
People will complain or hate on it A LOT, but the fact is, when you go to any con these same people will still cheer louder when a Kakashi cosplayer comes up on stage than for anyone else.
So yeah, everyone hates on it but then everyone secretly loves it too.
The faults you listed (annoying as they are) are just as bad in Bleach, which hasn't garnered nearly as much hate for it (in fact it's gotten so bad in Bleach that they've been making very overt jokes about it since the Ulquiora fight).
For my own position, I quite enjoyed Naruto, though I don't consider myself a huge fan and I'm nowhere near up to date.
I don't bother with the anime anymore (got tired of the pacing and fillers) but I read the manga. It wasn't anywhere close to my favorite but it was alright, up until that last year or two that is. Ergh, especially at the current arc.
Bleach is 5 times as bad in my opinion, so at least there's that...
Bleach is 5 times as bad in my opinion, so at least there's that...
Naruto in general, or Naruto the anime? For the anime, I think most complaints stem from the large amount of filler that it's become notorious for. I'm not saying filler is necessarily a bad thing, far from it in fact. When it's used right, filler can help flesh out protagonists and side characters, or just explain in detail aspects of the fictional world that were previously just lightly touched upon. It's also a good way to insert some light hearted humor or self referential, fourth wall breaking dialogue. Sometimes it's nice to take a break from the main narrative and entertain a few "what if"s before diving back into the mess again. In Naruto's case, the part before Shippuuden alone had enough filler to take up over a year (80 weeks) of run time, most of which I'd argue was considerably lackluster in quality (even by filler standards).
For Naruto in general, though, well I'd say it's more or less judged on account of its fan base more so than the actual quality of the series itself. While a fervent or militant fan base is certainly not a new thing in geek culture, the size and general volatility of Naruto's more vocal fans certainly makes it the most visible in the anime/manga scene. The sheer amount of horrible fanfiction, fanart, cosplay, forum posts, blatant weeabooism, and other displays of fan ineptitude that the series has built up over the years is enough to fill out entire web pages and websites with their exploits (Naruto fan backlash and flame wars only adding fuel to the fire) as well as coin the phrase "narutard". The actions of the persistent few have essentially tarnished the reputation of the fan base as a whole. It's gotten to the point where even people who're completely unfamiliar with the series can bash on it and it's fan base for internet cred, also encouraging casual fans of the series to distance themselves from it publicly for fear of being caught up in the backlash. In short, Naruto is the "Final Fantasy VII" of the anime/manga community.
For Naruto in general, though, well I'd say it's more or less judged on account of its fan base more so than the actual quality of the series itself. While a fervent or militant fan base is certainly not a new thing in geek culture, the size and general volatility of Naruto's more vocal fans certainly makes it the most visible in the anime/manga scene. The sheer amount of horrible fanfiction, fanart, cosplay, forum posts, blatant weeabooism, and other displays of fan ineptitude that the series has built up over the years is enough to fill out entire web pages and websites with their exploits (Naruto fan backlash and flame wars only adding fuel to the fire) as well as coin the phrase "narutard". The actions of the persistent few have essentially tarnished the reputation of the fan base as a whole. It's gotten to the point where even people who're completely unfamiliar with the series can bash on it and it's fan base for internet cred, also encouraging casual fans of the series to distance themselves from it publicly for fear of being caught up in the backlash. In short, Naruto is the "Final Fantasy VII" of the anime/manga community.
I liked it when the story was actually going somewhere, with Orochimaru's plot and Naruto being trained by Jiria-uh the dude with the white hair.
But after that, it was just villain begets villain begets villain begets villain... begets villain.
And when watching an anime or reading a manga becomes a chore, you should probably stop doing it.
But after that, it was just villain begets villain begets villain begets villain... begets villain.
And when watching an anime or reading a manga becomes a chore, you should probably stop doing it.
For me it's the "filler" thing, allready said a bajillion times before. I, sadly, don't have a lot of time anymore, and I don't have the time to watch as much anime/tv/movie as I used to. This has translated to me only doing what I know for a fact is going to be awesome. If I expect the next 5 episodes are filler, I lose interest really fast. Same for Bleach, another series I really like, but just takes to fricking long to get on with the story. Same reason why I plan on not getting Skyrim, as much as it pains me, I just don't have the time...
I can't wait for my retirement, I'll finally be able to do some timeconsuming stuff... That'll by then be 50 years old...
As to why "people", in the general sense of the word, don't like it, it's fanboy-ism, it's general need to hate something, it's ignorance, it's so many things that don't really have a good reason. The anonimity of the internet allows people to just blurt out their opinion and to change a general "I don't like X" to a "OMG!!1!!11 X really suxxorzzz! Every1 who lieks is nub!" (exaggeration necesarry). You only have to view Youtubecomments for one of those "love or hate" series. Or any console exclusive videogame video. People actually go out of their way just to spew their bile on unsuspecting people. I find that devotion to hating rather strange. It's certainly something to think about when you're bored.
I can't wait for my retirement, I'll finally be able to do some timeconsuming stuff... That'll by then be 50 years old...
As to why "people", in the general sense of the word, don't like it, it's fanboy-ism, it's general need to hate something, it's ignorance, it's so many things that don't really have a good reason. The anonimity of the internet allows people to just blurt out their opinion and to change a general "I don't like X" to a "OMG!!1!!11 X really suxxorzzz! Every1 who lieks is nub!" (exaggeration necesarry). You only have to view Youtubecomments for one of those "love or hate" series. Or any console exclusive videogame video. People actually go out of their way just to spew their bile on unsuspecting people. I find that devotion to hating rather strange. It's certainly something to think about when you're bored.
I'd say this is true for every 100+ episode shounen anime in general. Full of cliches, fillers, the "story" proceeds at snail pace (ONE BATTLE takes longer than 4 episodes, and it wasn't even a filler arc!), longer series' have poorer development values and the content just isn't up the par either (I WILL NOW ENTER INTO INNER MONOLOGUE ABOUT MY TRAGIC CHILDHOOD FOR 2 EPISODES). And as was mentioned, the studios just try too hard to squeeze content out of the manga (1 volume vs. 10-20 episodes of anime).
I watched Naruto (years ago, it's actually what got me into anime, surprisingly) to 120ish episode before stopping and wholly quit watching long running shounen shows after D.Gray-Man's lack of ending. I don't think Naruto is the most horribad anime (the prize goes to Narutaru), but it's definetely (along with Bleach/1Piece/DBZ/Conan etc. other shounen shows) aimed towards younger audience who wait for their weekly meal of "badass teenage ninjas/death gods/pirates/supermen/detectives".
This isn't nearly as true as you think. Many good shows and games are able to convey character development/motives/realizations/face heel turns without excessive amounts of inner monologue, it's just particularly true for shounen genre.
I watched Naruto (years ago, it's actually what got me into anime, surprisingly) to 120ish episode before stopping and wholly quit watching long running shounen shows after D.Gray-Man's lack of ending. I don't think Naruto is the most horribad anime (the prize goes to Narutaru), but it's definetely (along with Bleach/1Piece/DBZ/Conan etc. other shounen shows) aimed towards younger audience who wait for their weekly meal of "badass teenage ninjas/death gods/pirates/supermen/detectives".
That jump between the first generation of naruto and naruto shippuden. Are you seriously telling me that in the two years he went training with one of the greatest ninjas of that time... He didn't learn a single new skill?
You'd expect him to come back knowing epic moves and skills, but nope. He comes back from his two year vacation, only to find himself behind everyone else, and he's even more annoying.
You'd expect him to come back knowing epic moves and skills, but nope. He comes back from his two year vacation, only to find himself behind everyone else, and he's even more annoying.