Why are Americans so Patriotic?

[Zen Toombs]

-snip-

Because God Bless 'Merica!


Seriously though, the blind patriotism you're talking about mostly comes from the extremely vocal minority.

 

[chadachada123]

snip

The Pledge of Allegiance was never a requirement in schools. At least, in the past few decades. When you're asked to say it, say before class time or whatever, you can refuse to without the school punishing you. Some schools/states tried to enforce it, but judicial rulings declared it a violation of free speech and freedom of religion to force you to declare allegiance to the country you live in.

Hell, the "Under God" part wasn't even added until the 1950s because of McCarthyism over fear of the secular Soviet Union. And, truly, many Americans think that including that IS infringing on our rights since it (at least appears to) directly contradict our right to freedom of religion and seems to be Congress supporting a religion, specifically prohibited in our Constitution.

Ideally, pledging allegiance to the Flag as opposed to pledging allegiance to this country means that, should our country be committing acts that go against the ideals this nation was built upon (liberty, etc), you won't be breaking your pledge by rallying against that government.

Also, just as a heads-up, it's the 1st amendment that covers free speech and free religion. "Congress shall enact no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Finally, most intelligent Americans understand that the US federal government acts far outside its powers. It violates the Constitution from which it gets its powers all of the time, and many people understand this. It just so happens that the mass media supports the vocal minority of idiots that only scream "hurr patriotism" as an excuse to support the horrible government we have.

 

[Auron225]

I find this too - I remember on occasion driving down streets in America and every lamp post having an American flag on it. At both camps my brother and sister were at, they talked about getting all the kids up at 6am every day to swear allegiance to the flag. Maybe thats it - its beaten into them as children?

I dont know of any other country that does this, but it does get up my nose a bit too. A lot of other Americans Ive talked to seem really do claim its the greatest country on Earth. That, I think, is taking pride of your own country a step too far. You can in a joking way but they were being serious.

 

[sjarri]

-snip-

 

[Something Amyss]

Sigh, well at least that will change in time. As economies grow so does the countries demands, which lead to a demand for high paychecks. Or so the theory goes.

Well, the theory may go that way, but the world seems to go the other way. That's why we're still outsourcing to China.

 

[repeating integers]

I once posted this sketch on Facebook:
[youtube]2sD_8prYOxo[/youtube]

An American friend of mine got really angry and wrote a massive 500 word reply.
When I asked her to calm down, she replied that she "was just defending her country."

I think it's just people like her that give the others a bad name.

The video isn't working for me.

 

[chadachada123]

The thing about America is that it is NOT a single culture. We're an incredibly mixed culture with much variation.

The difference in culture between the ultra conservative Texas, the nanny-stateist California and New York, the meth-dealing Tenessee, and the other states...It's like lumping France in with Latvia as far as culture goes. Sure, they're both European and share a "similar" history, but the similarities stop there.

.

Latvia and France have "similar" history? excuse me... but where did you study? also, meth dealing Tennessee...

About as much history in common as California does with Michigan, or New York does with Texas. I also put "similar" in quotes above for a reason. I was just picking the best European polar opposites that I could think of.

Anywho, I normally use a slightly-different example, pointing out that members of the EU are very different from each other yet still unified under a broad government. That's fairly close to how the US is divided, both in culture and in law. Yes, our EU equivalent has gotten incredibly powerful, but it's still a fair comparison.

 

[trollnystan]

the under god part is somewhat funny:
During the cold war Americans believed that the Russian government was telling its people that the government was equal to the religion. So basically its a way of saying that the government will not oppress your religions views like those darn Communist.

Really? I thought it was Christian lobbyists that got that put in. (link to wikipedia)

Where did you hear your version? Just curious =)

 

[DRes82]

Not pedantry, sarcasm.

No, the sarcasm was apparent, but you were ignoring the context of the thread in the first place in favour of a pedantic definition of patriotism.

Pedantry.

Sarcasm as well, but those two are not mutually exclusive, and the elements for both were there.

Now you're ignoring the context of the thread to argue semantics with me. Semantics [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics]

 

[Viirin]

I don't wave a flag, but I will say that I'm so in love with my country that I'd probably be one of the guys that could have written its anthem. That being said..

We are on the verge of a global community. No countries. This I look forward to! A conversation I had with a Greek friend yesterday- 'what is a country anyway?' In the world we're living in now, what purpose does it serve?

I also see how the USA was viewed during the War. The Nazis were obviously and unrestrictedly evil and had to be destroyed. And many of them were. At least the looming threat was crushed if nothing else. We earned the burden and glory of heroes the world over. However, generations after that still felt they deserved that praise. Guess what? You can't be a hero forever. Think of how game sequels would realistically come about- in the first game, you rise from nothing to be the hero of the world. In the second game, everyone watches you shove your views over everyone else's because you 'earned the right' while everyone besides the hero just thinks of you as a dick and has-been. To maintain Hero status, you have to constantly earn it. We have NOT done that.

The country I'm living in now feels like a bodysnatcher. Has the same name and same face, but it is completely different. This country I do not love. I love what the country was supposed to be. I'd say that a military family helped me be more patriotic, but I only learned about my family member's military histories after I grew up, so it wasn't that. I stopped believing in the Christian god at age 6 during Sunday School, and being forced to say 'under god' during the Pledge of Allegiance turned me off, so it wasn't that either. I'd say it wasn't even my family and everyone else saying 'we are the best country in the world' a dozen times a day, because I had friends, even at a very young age, from Britain and Australia, and I knew that the people in those countries had a lot of freedom too. Not sure what it was, really. Sorry if I digressed, but I don't know what made me specifically a patriotic person. Maybe I just wanted attention and hero worship is popular.

 

[TheCowman]

I never said saying the pledge actually worked as a brain-washing mechanism, just that our country still requires that kids do it. That's the disturbing bit.

And I don't see how it's "disturbing". I think it's "disturbing" that a teacher can spell doughnuts as "donuts", or that a teacher can get a raise and end up making LESS than she was before.

If you find it "disturbing" that implies you believe it might have some negative effect on the children or giving them false ideas about America.

I'm just arguing that (and this is solely from my own experience) kids don't give a shit about America. They're in school to do their time and get out, and the pledge of allegiance is no more damaging to them than being told that the Earth has only one moon, when technically it has... more than one.


Crap, can't remember the actual number.

 

[LilithSlave]

I don't like the message that the pledge of allegiance says about religion.

We were a lot, lot better without the pledge of allegiance.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Let them have their patriotism.

Their country is still new, they still have time to do a few more war crimes, maybe colonise some places, kill the natives etc.

You're only young once.


*sips tea*

Yes, quite.

you mean, colonise some places. they're going a rather good job at the 'native-killing' plan. though i suppose Britain shares credit... not sure about war crimes yet...

*sips coffee baileys*

would arming two terrorist organisations count?

 

[ZeroMachine]

Let them have their patriotism.

Their country is still new, they still have time to do a few more war crimes, maybe colonise some places, kill the natives etc.

You're only young once.


*sips tea*

Yes, quite.

I keep thinking I may be in love with you. Stop making me feel this...

But yeah, because that's what we do. We're uh-mur-i-kan.

And that's how I pronounce it, goddamn it.

Shhhh, It's okay, there's nothing wrong with it...

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Spoiler

More on topic, we really aren't. We love our country, but most normal Americans fully admit that, in many aspects, we fuckin' suck.

 

[LilithSlave]

Ahahahahaha, we just got owned. So very owned.

I hate American football. I really do.

 

[TheCowman]

I don't like the message that the pledge of allegiance says about religion.

We were a lot, lot better without the pledge of allegiance.

Do you know how happy I'd be if the pledge of allegiance would rank as a major problem for America?

Oh, for the simpler times....

 

[ultimateownage]

Let them have their patriotism.

Their country is still new, they still have time to do a few more war crimes, maybe colonise some places, kill the natives etc.

You're only young once.


*sips tea*

Yes, quite.

This, and also they're just much more vocal about it than everywhere else. I know a hell of a lot of patriotic British, we're just much better at keeping it in. I consider it appreciation of our heritage and the history of this old country, rather than any inherent love for how it is. Also, our stereotype is great.
I'm going to go back to this quote about the 'Keep Calm and Carry On' poster again, because I feel it sums up our sort of patriotism quite well.
"The poster's popularity has been attributed to a "nostalgia for a certain British character, an outlook" according to the Bagehot column in The Economist, that it "taps directly into the country's mythic image of itself: unshowily brave and just a little stiff, brewing tea as the bombs fall.""

America just has a much more irritating form of patriotism.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I must admit many of my fellow Americans have Uncle Sam's stick of freedom shoved so far up their asses that they can't possibly see anything wrong with this country.

I'm the type of person that likes to view things from all sides before making a decision. America is NOT the greatest country in the world. Its ranking in health care and education has dropped significantly below the other super powers in the world.

Technically, America still has the worlds largest economy, though one can say China is doing far better with their economy that America is right now. America is divided so much so on so many things that it takes YEARS to get things done, that is true with other countries as well, but America has fallen behind in some areas while other countries step forward.

Example, stem cell research, America has tight grip laws on stem cell research, this because way back the only known way to get stem cells was from a fetus. Now days you can get them from the skin cells of the very patient you are treating. So all this research (and money) is going to other countries.

Because Americas education system is in the toilet many of the strongest companies in the world are outsourcing elsewhere. This is a very technologically demanding age. (AKA Lots of Math, Engineering, Science) Which America lacks.

I could go on and on. I will say one thing thats wonderful about this country. I can walk up to the President of the United States, call him a useless pile of shit and may he get struck down by lightning. And no one can do anything about it. The freedom of free expression is wonderful here. I know other countries have something similar, but they still tend to remain "tactful". America simply doesn't.

Your post was intelligent and thoughtful and most of it is, unfortunately, true. Our economy isn't as strong as it used to be and bureaucracy bogs down progress a lot of the time. Our education system and infrastructure are in dire need of an overhaul. The health care system, mehhh...I do ok with it, but I won't argue that point there.

The one problem I have with your post is your last sentence. Such a crass over generalization is a stark contrast to the rest of your seemingly thoughtful post. The only Americans not 'tactful' with their complete freedom of expression are very, very small minority. Don't lump a huge, diverse population in with idiots like WBC and fox news. Most of us aren't like that. You live here, you know that.

Let me give you an example, the royal wedding of Prince William and Catherine. Technically Catherine is suppose to take over the same title as Princess Diana, but she didn't because it would be in bad taste to the memory of Diana. Thats what a meant by tact. I didn't mean to refer to the other side which consist of "AMERICA! F@#K YEA!" and fart jokes.

 

[Something Amyss]

Now you're ignoring the context of the thread to argue semantics with me. Semantics [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics]

Now you're just flat out lying so you have an accusation to make.

 

[Therumancer]

Actually, America doesn't have anywhere near enough patriotism. Right now the majority of the left wing and especially it's younger "hipster" community are very anti-America. Even those that claim to be pro-America and rant about "taking the country back" ultimatly support pretty much undermining the country and it's own power and global dominance, oftentimes without any real clear idea of who should be leading things instead of us.

Read: "You don't support my specific views, so you're un-American!"

That kind of blind patriotism is awesome.

.

In so far as this discussion goes, yes. There is a lot of leeway for massive disagreement within the general support of America, however when your dealing with arguements that lead to the reduction in power and primacy of your own nation that is the opposite of patriotism... which is exactly the point. Right now it's "hip" to be un-patriotic.