Why are Americans so Patriotic?

[emeraldrafael]

why does it matter really?

I mean... oka, i can get the really vocal dicks who get in your face about it and say america is the greatest, but every country has those kinda people. But really, who cares? You know they're not the majority and you know they dont represent the country.

Now Im a realist, and I understand that the US has been... viewed unfavorably... as of late, but what they've done is nothing compared to some of the countries that the people who like to criticize are from. And at some point, even if you were to agree about some of those points, you do get tired of hearing someone continuously point out all of the negatives of the country.

as an example, you could make a hate thread about the UK and talk about all the negative things about the UK (of which there are many) and while they may be true, you'd get reaction you see from the patriotic US citizens from the Brits defending their country.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If people in South Korean want to be Patriotic and dislike non South Korean culture, that's their right as South Koreans. If Iceland wanted to be Patriotic and dislike non Icelandic culture, again that is their right. But I digress.

All patriotism does is build more walls and we have a lot of fucking walls in need of destroying at the moment. We shouldn't encourage it. What a person can do and what a person can't do are two completely different things.

I think patriotism is fine as long as it doesn't lead to nonsense

Patriotism always leads to "nonsense".

I was kind of talking about multiculturalism actually. The idea that people should have to accept other cultures is complete nonsense.

 

[zHellas]

Fridge full of beer, closet full of guns.

America. Fuck yeah.

...I'm very conflicted about how I should feel about your avatar.

OT: I think it's because we mostly got through history by ourselves, only occasionally relying on other nations. Plus, we never went through the horrors that nationalism can bring about.

 

[orangeban]

I don't get patriotism. I don't understand defending your country because you were born in it, seems stupid to me. Probably the same reason I don't support a football team.

What I do get though, is defending specific good things about your country. I won't defend Britain, but I will defend the NHS, or the BBC, for example.

 

[Denariax]

I live in America. The entirety of America disgusts me. The majority of existence disgusts me. Thats all I'm gonna say.

 

[orangeban]

If people in South Korean want to be Patriotic and dislike non South Korean culture, that's their right as South Koreans. If Iceland wanted to be Patriotic and dislike non Icelandic culture, again that is their right. But I digress.

All patriotism does is build more walls and we have a lot of fucking walls in need of destroying at the moment. We shouldn't encourage it. What a person can do and what a person can't do are two completely different things.

I think patriotism is fine as long as it doesn't lead to nonsense

Patriotism always leads to "nonsense".

I was kind of talking about multiculturalism actually. The idea that people should have to accept other cultures is complete nonsense.

Alright, obvious question, why is accepting other cultures complete nonsense? Surely it just makes society more accepting of people and breaks down racial and cultural barriers?

 

[BrotherSurplice]

I remember an American who came to our school once telling us that they had to repeat some sort of 'America is awesome' thing (I pledge allegiance? I can't remember, it's been a while) at school every day since he was young.

So basically indoctrination, that's why Americans are so patriotic. It's got nothing to do with whether the country is great or not, it's that the children are taught about how awesome America is before they can even talk properly. It's kind of like how Stalin or Kim Jong Il got people to think they were awesome, byt forming a cult of personality, only instead of a person, america do it to a country.

On a related and hilarious note (for me) he also told us that in his textbooks and lessons he wasn't taught that America lost the Vietnam War. When he started doing history at GCSE (we did Vietnam) he was genuinely shocked to find out that they hadn't done so good there. And this was someone who lived in New York and went to school there, not some backwoods Louisianna swamp kid.

EDIT: Sorry, should also point out how it's not really 'true' patriotism, it's more like nationalism. That whole jingoistic 'my country tis of thee' stuff that rednecks and Republicans spout isn't patriotism. Captain America patriotism is very different 'I am loyal to nothing, except the American dream.' Not cultural boundaries, not nationalist pride, but the dream of a free country where people are judged on the merits of their character and their actions instead of the luck of their birth or their choice of religion or partner or anything else.

Nationalism is 'my country, right or wrong.'
Patriotism is 'My country right or wrong, if right to be kept right, if wrong to be set right.'

So many so-called patriots forget the second half of that sentence.

You, my friend, are right on the money with your definition of patriotism. I despise it when people think that patriotism is just supporting your country whatever it does.

 

[GonzoGamer]

and don't say that anyone would be that way about their home country, because if someone came up to be and said "hey, england's crap!" i'd just say "yeah, it is a bit"

Yea... but you live in the UK.
Just kidding, I love the UK actually.

Our nationalism is ingrained in us from an early age. Besides the fun things like making explosions in the sky to celebrate the nations founding (any kid can dig that...it's sure to make an impression at least), we get the pledge of allegiance and the national anthem(s) drilled into us every day at school or at any sporting event and things like that.

Then after 911, a lot of people got behind Bush's 'if you're not with us you're the enemy' thing (so if you weren't patriotic, you may as well be a terrorist) and the flag all of a sudden became as popular as the coke bottle in Gods Must be Crazy.

I think the real thing is that America is made up of odds & ends from every other country in the world (trust me, I know, I'm from Queens) and the only thing we all really have in common is that we're all American.

Some of us get real psycho about it sometimes though don't we.

 

[Tiger King]

it might be just an unfair stereotype, but it's generally believed that if you badmouth america, any nearby americans will go up in arms and get very angry, and i'm just wondering why. Just to clarify, i have nothing against america, but i hardly think it's anything to write home about. and don't say that anyone would be that way about their home country, because if someone came up to be and said "hey, england's crap!" i'd just say "yeah, it is a bit"

i think its quite positive.
nothing wrong with aspiring to be number 1.

take what you said
"hey, england's crap!" i'd just say "yeah, it is a bit"
just a bit negative. im not saying get all ultra, nationalistic style, patriotic and start a war over an insult but whats wrong with having an attitude, where you want your country to be of a certain standard?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If people in South Korean want to be Patriotic and dislike non South Korean culture, that's their right as South Koreans. If Iceland wanted to be Patriotic and dislike non Icelandic culture, again that is their right. But I digress.

All patriotism does is build more walls and we have a lot of fucking walls in need of destroying at the moment. We shouldn't encourage it. What a person can do and what a person can't do are two completely different things.

I think patriotism is fine as long as it doesn't lead to nonsense

Patriotism always leads to "nonsense".

I was kind of talking about multiculturalism actually. The idea that people should have to accept other cultures is complete nonsense.

Alright, obvious question, why is accepting other cultures complete nonsense? Surely it just makes society more accepting of people and breaks down racial and cultural barriers?

Because it can effect the native culture in a negative way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying places like Japan shouldn't have Jeans sold there, but it would be weird for them to nationally celebrate Indian Independence day on August 15th.

Also my personal preference is that I like difference races. I think each one has its own attractive qualities and to see them all fade into one big mass would be a aesthetically unpleasing because everybody would just look the same (not like clones but you get the idea). But this is just my personal preference.

 

[Polyintrinsic]

Lots of brain washing from a small age.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

It's just the vocal minority. Which unfortunately (as always) are far more in the spotlight than most Americans, who plainly don't give a crap.

Going along with this, you guys need to realize that the true American isn't the patriotic gun toting redneck.

It's the guy who straight up doesn't care. It's kinda how we're able to go to war with so many countries.

 

[orangeban]

If people in South Korean want to be Patriotic and dislike non South Korean culture, that's their right as South Koreans. If Iceland wanted to be Patriotic and dislike non Icelandic culture, again that is their right. But I digress.

All patriotism does is build more walls and we have a lot of fucking walls in need of destroying at the moment. We shouldn't encourage it. What a person can do and what a person can't do are two completely different things.

I think patriotism is fine as long as it doesn't lead to nonsense

Patriotism always leads to "nonsense".

I was kind of talking about multiculturalism actually. The idea that people should have to accept other cultures is complete nonsense.

Alright, obvious question, why is accepting other cultures complete nonsense? Surely it just makes society more accepting of people and breaks down racial and cultural barriers?

Because it can effect the native culture in a negative way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying places like Japan shouldn't have Jeans sold there, but it would be weird for them to nationally celebrate Indian Independence day on August 15th.

Also my personal preference is that I like difference races. I think each one has its own attractive qualities and to see them all fade into one big mass would be a aesthetically unpleasing because everybody would just look the same (not like clones but you get the idea). But this is just my personal preference.

But surely multiculturalism stops cultures from molding into one giant soup? Rather than having people conform to the standard culture, they are free to celebrate their own. Though I do see your point, almost. I'm just tired I think.

 

[The_Echo]

It's just the vocal minority. Which unfortunately (as always) are far more in the spotlight than most Americans, who plainly don't give a crap.

This is quite true. Out of my entire high school, which is to say about 1600-ish students, I can only say that one of them could be described as patriotic.

 

[Lethos]

To quote John Dalberg-Acton, "Power corrupts, and absoulte power corrupts absolutely". Think about if this government gave to ok to do something like what (PRC)China is doing to Tibet, America is doing at Guantanamo Bay, what England did to Ireland/India/China/Africa/Argentina. Who could oppose them? They would be the most powerful organized body in the entire world. It would be to risky to have.

Not disputing your argument (which I mostly agree with), but what exactly did England do to Argentina?

Be among the first to recognise their sovereignty as a nation? Invest heavily in their economy when they most needed it? Lose to their football team due to an illegal handball (and constantly thereafter)? Or defend themselves in the Falkland Islands when the Argentines invaded?

The British Empire did not have a great Human Rights record, but I don't think Argentina is generally included on the list of abuses...

The issue with the Falkland Islands, England has no right being there anymore than they did being in Hong Kong.

Ask that to the people who live there.

The islands were uninhabited when they were discovered, so it was fair game.

When soverignty came into dispute, they even let the islanders vote on who they wanted to be part of.

The British did many terrible things in their colonial days, but the Falklands was not one of them.

"Fair game"? Really? Sounds more like Imperialism to me. Why would a country that is 777.8 miles away from the Faroe Islands, need to go there? Honestly?

The Islands didn't belong to anyone, and that was pretty much the 'in thing' at the time. You know. Finding places.

I meant to type Falklands not Faroe Islands, my bad. Anyways, the whole issue should be between Argentina and the Falklands, England has no right to but in between the two places anymore than it does butting in between any issues Hong Kong has with Mainland China.

But the people want to be British. They voted to remain British.

 

[KelsieKatt]

There is a reason that every morning, public school kids are made to stand and read the Pledge like we're goddamn Hitler youths.

Actually, they are not FORCED to recite the pledge. The have the right to abstain.

It's certainly doable, although depending on where you live it may be quite difficult and is certainly not for the faint of heart.

I refused to recite the pledge of allegiance when I was in school, I didn't cause a fuss over it or anything, just sat quietly in my seat. However, one of my teachers took huge offense to it and punished me multiple times for doing so and finally brought me down to the principals office hoping to get me expelled, and was finally told she wasn't allowed to do any of this and this was a violation of my rights. My parents have also received numerous phone calls over the years for similar instances and even incredibly stupid cases where all I did was question the purpose of a particular activity we were told to do.

I also got thrown out of a religious school (which my mom enrolled me in because the location was convenient) when I was fairly little because I didn't follow or believe in their religious teachings. Again, I didn't make a big deal out of it, I just asked simple "why?" questions or sat quietly instead of joining in with the group. They were extremely angered by this because I was expected to follow orders to letter and not question any of it, so they threw me out after a few weeks and told me I was a "demon child" directly to my parents before we left.

That said, not every school I've been to was like this and some weren't even phased by my decisions/questions, but I've definitely seen these problems firsthand.

 

[StarsintheBlood]

My mother immigrated to this country from Malaysia because she loved what America stood for. She lived a very restricted life back there, and this was a land of opportunity and freedom. I love the values that this country was built upon also, but we both agree that the politics suck, and none of the coming presidential candidates are at all promising.

America is a young nation, but it's accomplished a lot (though I will attribute a bit of that to it's size), so there is reason to be proud. It has hard working people, lots of diversity, and quality plumbing. Still, I must confess to be considering leaving the U.S., and it does frustrate me to see the direction the country is going.

To put in simple terms- our nation is awesome, our leaders are meddlesome assholes, and it does not surprise me that the world looks at us the way they do. I had a foreign friend of mine tell me that America reminded him of a massive dog- really powerful and loyal to it's home, but young, not too bright, and willing to eat anything. Make of that what you will.

 

[Manji187]

Conditioning and propaganda. Truckloads of the stuff. 24/7.

 

[Vault Citizen]

To quote John Dalberg-Acton, "Power corrupts, and absoulte power corrupts absolutely". Think about if this government gave to ok to do something like what (PRC)China is doing to Tibet, America is doing at Guantanamo Bay, what England did to Ireland/India/China/Africa/Argentina. Who could oppose them? They would be the most powerful organized body in the entire world. It would be to risky to have.

Not disputing your argument (which I mostly agree with), but what exactly did England do to Argentina?

Be among the first to recognise their sovereignty as a nation? Invest heavily in their economy when they most needed it? Lose to their football team due to an illegal handball (and constantly thereafter)? Or defend themselves in the Falkland Islands when the Argentines invaded?

The British Empire did not have a great Human Rights record, but I don't think Argentina is generally included on the list of abuses...

The issue with the Falkland Islands, England has no right being there anymore than they did being in Hong Kong.

Ask that to the people who live there.

The islands were uninhabited when they were discovered, so it was fair game.

When soverignty came into dispute, they even let the islanders vote on who they wanted to be part of.

The British did many terrible things in their colonial days, but the Falklands was not one of them.

"Fair game"? Really? Sounds more like Imperialism to me. Why would a country that is 777.8 miles away from the Faroe Islands, need to go there? Honestly?

The Islands didn't belong to anyone, and that was pretty much the 'in thing' at the time. You know. Finding places.

I meant to type Falklands not Faroe Islands, my bad. Anyways, the whole issue should be between Argentina and the Falklands, England has no right to but in between the two places anymore than it does butting in between any issues Hong Kong has with Mainland China.

The difference there is Hong Kong is no longer British where as the people of the Falklands are British citizens (by choice). I'd say protecting one's citizens from an invading force doesn't count as butting in.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If people in South Korean want to be Patriotic and dislike non South Korean culture, that's their right as South Koreans. If Iceland wanted to be Patriotic and dislike non Icelandic culture, again that is their right. But I digress.

All patriotism does is build more walls and we have a lot of fucking walls in need of destroying at the moment. We shouldn't encourage it. What a person can do and what a person can't do are two completely different things.

I think patriotism is fine as long as it doesn't lead to nonsense

Patriotism always leads to "nonsense".

I was kind of talking about multiculturalism actually. The idea that people should have to accept other cultures is complete nonsense.

Alright, obvious question, why is accepting other cultures complete nonsense? Surely it just makes society more accepting of people and breaks down racial and cultural barriers?

Because it can effect the native culture in a negative way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying places like Japan shouldn't have Jeans sold there, but it would be weird for them to nationally celebrate Indian Independence day on August 15th.

Also my personal preference is that I like difference races. I think each one has its own attractive qualities and to see them all fade into one big mass would be a aesthetically unpleasing because everybody would just look the same (not like clones but you get the idea). But this is just my personal preference.

But surely multiculturalism stops cultures from molding into one giant soup? Rather than having people conform to the standard culture, they are free to celebrate their own. Though I do see your point, almost. I'm just tired I think.

True, if lets say there are 1 million Kenyans globally and two hundred want to celebrate Indian Independence day, thats fine. I think it only becomes an issue when more than 51% of Kenyans want to celebrate it and forget about Kenyan culture. I think we agree but for different reasons, lol