Why are 'casual' games bad?
- Thread starter DrDeath3191
- Start date
I always thought it was because a lot of casual games are associated with the Wii and it's shovelware games. But another theory is that casual games have a completely different look and feel to the more hardcore games.
Same family, just the casual games are the younger siblings of the gaming family. Like the Army and Army Cadets or something.
:S
Same family, just the casual games are the younger siblings of the gaming family. Like the Army and Army Cadets or something.
:S
DrDeath3191 said:
wow, i made myself quite unpopular in this thread.Pyode said:
dr. death, i know the subject here is casual games, but you did mention the Wii quite allot in your OP, and i have been racking on the Wii previously, so i just wanted to trow in my two cents, which is the whole idea of this forum.
and pyrode, i am sorry i ruined the fun, not my intention, please continue planning the fist fight.
Yes I mentioned the Wii, because that's the only point people actually discuss 'casual' games. However, this thread is not about how you feel regarding motion controls or less powerful graphics. This is about the actual games regardless of the console on which they appear.swaki said:
They're bad for more traditional and hardcore gamers. As 'casual' gamers start to become the majority of the gaming industry, its financially logical to channel funds towards the majority. Thus throwing more devoted games under the bus.
I feel like the only person in the world who can't stand Peggle. I have completed it as well!clairedelune said:
However, there isn't anything wrong with casual games in my opinion.
Define casual exactly. I'm quite sure the vast majority of games you played initially weren't entrenching to begin with, not to mention games like Tetris and Pacman are considered hardcore despite their gameplay being "casual".
The word you're looking for is quality. Good games can have innovative gameplay, optional challenge, designed for genuine entertainment and more; Considering costs you'll find a lot of these in indie form. About a decade and two ago developers were chock full of brilliant concepts and worked passionately for an industry which wasn't even mainstream at the time. Alas, it got more popular and with millions of masses buying games regardless of quality it's not surprising they don't attempt to up the ante more as they used to.
It's discomforting to see this happen and get something you've worked all your life to reach stomped on because of cowardice.
The word you're looking for is quality. Good games can have innovative gameplay, optional challenge, designed for genuine entertainment and more; Considering costs you'll find a lot of these in indie form. About a decade and two ago developers were chock full of brilliant concepts and worked passionately for an industry which wasn't even mainstream at the time. Alas, it got more popular and with millions of masses buying games regardless of quality it's not surprising they don't attempt to up the ante more as they used to.
It's discomforting to see this happen and get something you've worked all your life to reach stomped on because of cowardice.
Very, very rare is the person why actually has a problem with casual games. The miscommunication here is that Nintendo, lately, has thrown the idea of innovation completely out the window, in favor of bland, safe, shovelware games from third parties, and just non-innovative tweaking of safe franchises for the in house stuff. Casual games are awesome, I think we can all agree. But poor quality casual games just lower the bar for everyone.
Casual games have become synonymous with the Wii, and the Wii's casual market has become the standard. Unfortunately, useing the Wii as a standard is really, really bad. After having there most productive year yet in software, I almost run out of fingers counting good Wii games. Amongst the good Wii games, about half of them are adult, non casual titles. Then there's ports and re-iterations of established franchises. Wii casual games are doing little to nothing in advancing game design as a medium. There just cashing in. This will catch up with them, in time.
Just to establish something, I have a Wii. It was not a waste of money. I am playing Muramasa now, and have both the new Silent Hill and Dead Space coming my way. It is a lot of fun. But while PS3 and 360 pump out new ideas all the time, I can get everything good on the Wii with next to no effort. This gives casual games a bad name, because the ones so in the spotlight are frequently trash. Casual games though are great. Popcap are masters in design, a lot of the best Indie games are casual, and with things like PSN and the XBL Arcade, casual games add a whole, exciting new dimension to modern day gaming. Its just that the casual game spotlight is squarely placed on the sub-par Wii games.
Casual games have become synonymous with the Wii, and the Wii's casual market has become the standard. Unfortunately, useing the Wii as a standard is really, really bad. After having there most productive year yet in software, I almost run out of fingers counting good Wii games. Amongst the good Wii games, about half of them are adult, non casual titles. Then there's ports and re-iterations of established franchises. Wii casual games are doing little to nothing in advancing game design as a medium. There just cashing in. This will catch up with them, in time.
Just to establish something, I have a Wii. It was not a waste of money. I am playing Muramasa now, and have both the new Silent Hill and Dead Space coming my way. It is a lot of fun. But while PS3 and 360 pump out new ideas all the time, I can get everything good on the Wii with next to no effort. This gives casual games a bad name, because the ones so in the spotlight are frequently trash. Casual games though are great. Popcap are masters in design, a lot of the best Indie games are casual, and with things like PSN and the XBL Arcade, casual games add a whole, exciting new dimension to modern day gaming. Its just that the casual game spotlight is squarely placed on the sub-par Wii games.
I play "hardcore" games more often, and I was thinking of getting something like Viva Pinata. Casual games can be a nice break from all the shooters, RPGs, and action games. The reason casual games and gamers get a lot of crap is because a majority of them contain elements which are simple and not fast paced. There are a fair amount of casual games like Viva Pinata which are simple and still fun, so I don't see why there's a complete hatred for casual games from some people. It's not like every casual game is a piece of crap.
Whoever thinks Nintendo is going to die because it just makes games for kids and old people is a moron.
Whoever thinks Nintendo is going to die because it just makes games for kids and old people is a moron.
there is nothing exactly wrong with it but i will put it like this. i like watching the philadelphia eagles football team, however my friends have their favorite teams but they will watch any game and know almost anything about every player on every team. so therefore i would say that i am a casual fan of football where as they are hardcore fans. therefore someone who plays peggle, wii fit, wii ..., .....touch, should be considered casual gamers. where people like myself who have invested 20+ years into loving the industry and have played the majority of games that have been released over the years should be considered hardcore.
so again i dont think its bad to be a casual gamer, i just think its different. but i can see where the hardcore fans of the industry feel insulted when a person who only plays wii sports considers themselves to be a gamer, just as i could see my friends being insulted if i called myself a hardcore sports fan
so again i dont think its bad to be a casual gamer, i just think its different. but i can see where the hardcore fans of the industry feel insulted when a person who only plays wii sports considers themselves to be a gamer, just as i could see my friends being insulted if i called myself a hardcore sports fan
I've never thought of casual gamers as people who play games like peggle...
when someone says to me "casual gamer" I think of people who play games occasionally.
& a "hardcore gamer" is someone who will get a new game, sit down to play it and if they enjoy it, declare "I'm gonna play this game and I'm gonna finish it by the end of tonight, so help me [deity of your choice]"...
when someone says to me "casual gamer" I think of people who play games occasionally.
& a "hardcore gamer" is someone who will get a new game, sit down to play it and if they enjoy it, declare "I'm gonna play this game and I'm gonna finish it by the end of tonight, so help me [deity of your choice]"...
Before I begin, a bit of background is in order: Both my wife and I are what the vast majority would consider 'casual' gamers - I prefer RPGs a la pre-FF7 Final Fantasy and flight sims a la Ace Combat, whereas she likes puzzle games and free-build games. That's not to say every now and then I don't throw down in some online FPSes (Red Orchestra being my poison of choice) or that she doesn't play other games (Mass Effect, etc.), but we don't spend every opportunity playing video games which, it would appear, puts us on the 'casual' side of this debate.
That being said, let's go.
Answer the first: They're fun and easy to play.
Answer the second: You can be good at them and have fun without spending every spare moment playing.
Allow me to explain:
In my experience, the 'hardcore' vs. 'casual' mentality seems to go like this:
1) If it's fun right off the bat and there's either a very gradual learning curve or no curve at all, then the 'hardcore' group seems to think there's something wrong. Nothing good can be easy to pick up.
2) If I can play, say, Tetris an hour or two every week and still beat someone who plays it ten hours a day, then clearly there must be something wrong with the game. Randomness and luck must not exist, only skill can carry the day.
That's not always the case, but it seems to be the prevailing mindset in these arguments.
Of course, I think that MW2 was also the most despicable example of Shovelware ever perpetrated on the gaming public, but then again that's just me.
That being said, let's go.
There are a couple of simple answers to this question:DrDeath3191 said:
Answer the first: They're fun and easy to play.
Answer the second: You can be good at them and have fun without spending every spare moment playing.
Allow me to explain:
In my experience, the 'hardcore' vs. 'casual' mentality seems to go like this:
1) If it's fun right off the bat and there's either a very gradual learning curve or no curve at all, then the 'hardcore' group seems to think there's something wrong. Nothing good can be easy to pick up.
2) If I can play, say, Tetris an hour or two every week and still beat someone who plays it ten hours a day, then clearly there must be something wrong with the game. Randomness and luck must not exist, only skill can carry the day.
That's not always the case, but it seems to be the prevailing mindset in these arguments.
Of course, I think that MW2 was also the most despicable example of Shovelware ever perpetrated on the gaming public, but then again that's just me.