Why are modern consoles bad?

[bluegate]

whenever i buy a new game for my Xbox One, any hype or excitement i have for it immediately dwindles as soon as i realize i have to spend time installing that ***** for an entire fucking day almost.

Sounds like your Xbox may be bro... oh wait, you have a Yoshi avatar, nevermind.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I'm not saying the consoles don't have ANY advantage over the PC anymore. But they're now pretty few and far between. For example, a console definitely costs less than a half-way decent gaming PC with the linked benefit of not having to worry about system requirements. But as I said in the OP, that latter benefit looks like it's slowly disappearing now.

I also don't have a problem at all with online play on the consoles. Not at all. I have a problem when that's my ONLY OPTION. And to add insult to injury, I have to pay for online multiplayer too, which maybe would have been fine if I hadn't been forced to do it.

I like how 'modern consoles" consist almost entirely of the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One. Or at least, I haven't had either of those problems with the WiiU.

As for the price of games: $60 AAA games are undercosted. If prices changed to count for inflation alone, we'd be paying more than $60, let alone if we accounted for how much money and development time goes into AAA games these days. And I'm not even a big fan of the AAA game space.

That's because the Wii U is dead in the water now. Even Nintendo knows it or else they wouldn't have released the Switch. Their big mistake was not investing more power into the Wii U and making developers shoehorn the two screen gimmick into their games.

 

[WeepingAngels]

So delete old games or upgrade you memory.

Then wait for it to install and when you want to play the game you had to delete, wait for it to install. People who buy physical media shouldn't have to install in the first place. Thankfully Nintendo agrees and did not take the Blu Ray route with the Switch and they don't force installs on the Wii U.

And if you honestly can't wait a day for your game (though I doubt the connection is that slow) just start it offline and update afterwards, or play COD.

Consumers should expect and be fine with waiting a day to use a product they bought? You are serious right?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

PS4 plays any game within a couple minutes of prep time. PS3 was far far worse and the PS4 fixed just about every issue with the PS3. Now, Xbone is a different story mainly because it wasn't made to be a proper console as you can immediately see all that stuff that the Xbone was supposed to have that everyone hated and got removed was basically gutted out and is still sorta there.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

"Console Jew", thank you very much. If you're going to cloth yourself with nazi ethos let's do this properly.

Nah that would imply that I think I'm superior thanks to your religious beliefs, peasant fits just fine.

Brags about master race.
Says it's about religion.
Ok.

 

[WeepingAngels]

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

PS4 plays any game within a couple minutes of prep time. PS3 was far far worse and the PS4 fixed just about every issue with the PS3.

PS3 rarely had mandatory installs.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'm not saying the consoles don't have ANY advantage over the PC anymore. But they're now pretty few and far between. For example, a console definitely costs less than a half-way decent gaming PC with the linked benefit of not having to worry about system requirements. But as I said in the OP, that latter benefit looks like it's slowly disappearing now.

I also don't have a problem at all with online play on the consoles. Not at all. I have a problem when that's my ONLY OPTION. And to add insult to injury, I have to pay for online multiplayer too, which maybe would have been fine if I hadn't been forced to do it.

I like how 'modern consoles" consist almost entirely of the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One. Or at least, I haven't had either of those problems with the WiiU.

As for the price of games: $60 AAA games are undercosted. If prices changed to count for inflation alone, we'd be paying more than $60, let alone if we accounted for how much money and development time goes into AAA games these days. And I'm not even a big fan of the AAA game space.

That's because the Wii U is dead in the water now. Even Nintendo knows it or else they wouldn't have released the Switch. Their big mistake was not investing more power into the Wii U and making developers shoehorn the two screen gimmick into their games.

How does the WiiU being a lame duck console interact in anyway with it also not exhibiting the flaws of "modern consoles" that are being complained about? Hell, its online play might not be as robust (although my PS4 download speeds have gone to down the toilet, so who knows) but it is free.

And considering how 3rd party devs recoiled from the WiiU during its launch (even after claiming they were going to support the console to the point Nintendo was relying on them for its launch lineup) I'm not sure they could've, or should've, tried "forcing" them to do anything.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Plug and play means if I buy a PS4 game I can play it on any PS4 without praying to the gods that it is compatible with my system and fiddle with the options.

If that's your definition of plug and play, my PC is plug and play too.

How did the PC version of Arkham Knight work for you?

Turned out fine in the end. How did the masterchief collection work for you? Or Assassins Creed Unity? Or No Man's Sky? I could go on.

"Console Jew", thank you very much. If you're going to cloth yourself with nazi ethos let's do this properly.

Nah that would imply that I think I'm superior thanks to your religious beliefs, peasant fits just fine.

Brags about master race.
Says it's about religion.
Ok.

But I said it wasn't about religion.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

PS4 plays any game within a couple minutes of prep time. PS3 was far far worse and the PS4 fixed just about every issue with the PS3.

PS3 rarely had mandatory installs.

What games did you play because just about every PS3 game with any kind of open world to it required a mandatory install before playing. Even Mirror's Edge has a mandatory install. Sony's own MLB The Show series always has mandatory installs. Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a 5+GB mandatory install. I could go on and on as mandatory installs were usually the norm on PS3 (hell, just google it).

Having run and dodge as the same button makes sense. They're both evasion. I would personally like see a more instantaneous and speedier run used as primary evasion, with slight contextual animations, removing the roll, and then also have the jump button there as an alternate way to evade, like when there's a low attack or hazard. The benefit would be that you'd still be able to attack and parry while dodging. I find invincibility frames cheap.

A bit convoluted for something (switching hands and defending) that was simpler before.

What if you want even more control? I'd like to be able to assign items to buttons instead of scrolling through five or ten items with just Down. I've often selected the wrong item because of that inefficient system and overshot the one I wanted, which meant I had to scroll through all of them again. Another thing I think Dark Souls could really benefit from is a reverse camera button, one of the reasons being that the lock-on system greatly limits what you can see and another being that turning the camera all the way around might not happen fast enough. Although, with a mouse, the second problem would barely matter. And what if a game like Dark Souls had crouching (as another way to dodge hazards, make yourself less visible and enter low spaces) and fewer weapons with different types of attacks, like thrusts, vertical attacks and wide attacks? Chivalry is clever at this, using the mouse wheel for thrusts and vertical attacks. You can do it with a controller, but it would be more complicated to pull off. Zelda allows you to do that when you're holding Z (targeting), but you can't hold the stick button (targeting) in Dark Souls. That would be uncomfortable and probably damage the controller.

I disagree. It's slow and uncomfortable. The thumb wasn't made for dexterous movements, but for gripping things with the index finger. The small radius that the stick can move means you'll drag the camera much more than with a mouse. It IS inefficient.

There's a lot of issues with the Souls games that the games need to be completely reworked from the ground up from the controls to the RPG elements to fighting dumb, boring mobs to get to actual decently good boss fights from time to time. The level design and atmosphere are great but that's really it. The lock-on system itself needs to go.

I can say the same thing about the wrist not being designed to move a small piece of plastic millimeters at a time. The fact is that humans can practice to get good at just about anything from using a mouse to using analog sticks to throwing a baseball over 90mph with pinpoint accuracy. MGO is a console shooter that required great aim to play at a high level as body shots did shit damage and headshots were king. The best players could kill you from across the map in a fraction of a second with a headshot. With the proper aim acceleration and camera sensitivity, aiming is quite easy with analog sticks. Less efficient than a mouse but not by much.

 

[WeepingAngels]

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

PS4 plays any game within a couple minutes of prep time. PS3 was far far worse and the PS4 fixed just about every issue with the PS3.

PS3 rarely had mandatory installs.

What games did you play because just about every PS3 game with any kind of open world to it required a mandatory install before playing. Even Mirror's Edge has a mandatory install. Sony's own MLB The Show series always has mandatory installs. Ghost Recon Future Soldier had a 5+GB mandatory install. I could go on and on as mandatory installs were usually the norm on PS3 (hell, just google it).

Ok I don't remember it that way but I am not interested in pitting PS3 against PS4. My point is that mandatory installs on any system is not ideal. Now if you don't care about mandatory installs, good for you but I am glad Nintendo is moving away from optical discs and I hope both Sony and Microsoft do so too.

 

[Zaltys]

Because of constant updates. I don't play console games often, and every time that I try to... there's a new update waiting that needs to be installed before I can play.

That's pretty much why I've completely given up on it. It feels like I'm never able to play when I want to.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ok I don't remember it that way but I am not interested in pitting PS3 against PS4. My point is that mandatory installs on any system is not ideal. Now if you don't care about mandatory installs, good for you but I am glad Nintendo is moving away from optical discs and I hope both Sony and Microsoft do so too.

I don't really care about installs as long as they happen under-the-hood, which the PS3 did not do. The main point the TC made in the opening post is that modern consoles aren't plug-n-play which is not true for the PS4 and that's the point of the topic. I don't see how cartridges/sd memory are going to even come close to the price point of a disc.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Ok I don't remember it that way but I am not interested in pitting PS3 against PS4. My point is that mandatory installs on any system is not ideal. Now if you don't care about mandatory installs, good for you but I am glad Nintendo is moving away from optical discs and I hope both Sony and Microsoft do so too.

I don't really care about installs as long as they happen under-the-hood, which the PS3 did not do. The main point the TC made in the opening post is that modern consoles aren't plug-n-play which is not true for the PS4 and that's the point of the topic. I don't see how cartridges/sd memory are going to even come close to the price point of a disc.

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I absolutely can't fault you there. The one current console that almost gets this right is the Wii U which does have split-screen/couch co-op (on first and second party games) and, a lot of games that you can just pop into the box and play. I really want to want a couple of consoles and a PC but while the PC is inaccessible to me because of cost, what's keeping me from getting a PS4 is the software. At this point the number of games I want that I can only get on that console can be counted on one of my hands (Bloodbourn, inFamous: Second Son, Doom and, Final Fantasy XV). The other major games I want to play this generation have also been released on the PS3, Xbox 360 or, Wii U...thus I don't consider them to be Next Gen (a term I've continued using for the PS4 and Xbone despite their updated versions already having been announced). The only real blind-spot here for me was the Wii U which I thought would be able to keep up with new releases on other consoles (it didn't) and provide new Nintendo games (it kinda did). I'm looking forward to the Nintendo Switch at the moment but when it comes to this generation of gaming it feels like for me at least, the only way to go that makes sense is to just get a Retron V and a 3DS. If you're going to spend this generation picking up re-releases of games from the previous generation or two (which may or may not even work) you might as well spend a lot less and get hardware that can run really old games. The 3DS is just a solid handheld and its capable of running DS games which is a really damn solid handheld.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

Yeah, you did mention plug-n-play:

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

You were very factually wrong, which is why I responded. The only console gen that had issues with plug-n-play was last-gen due to it being the 1st console gen with hard drives so a few issues with that is to be expected. PS4 fixed all those issues and every PS4 game I've popped in has been playable in a couple minutes at worst.

Consoles have always been PCs, I never got that argument of them being weaker PCs as they always were. The point of the console is that it has the same hardware so issues are much less likely to crop up, you can pop in a game and play, and you can play comfortably on your couch with a controller. Being weaker graphically doesn't matter much as graphics don't make a game and current gen has had the weakest games yet the best graphics.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Then why did you respond to me instead of the OP, I never mentioned plug n play. I think it's clear you don't care about installs and it should be clear that I do for two reasons, because it's time consuming (in most cases) and because it takes up hard drive space and you will eventually find yourself deciding which games to delete to make room for more. Either that or you will go spend extra to buy a bigger hard drive but then, upgrading a piece of hardware takes the simplicity out of consoles.

I think that consoles cannot stay on this path. This is the path where they become weak PC's.

Yeah, you did mention plug-n-play:

we have always been able to play a console game within minutes of opening it, until last gen and this gen is even worse.

You were very factually wrong, which is why I responded. The only console gen that had issues with plug-n-play was last-gen due to it being the 1st console gen with hard drives so a few issues with that is to be expected. PS4 fixed all those issues and every PS4 game I've popped in has been playable in a couple minutes at worst.

Consoles have always been PCs, I never got that argument of them being weaker PCs as they always were. The point of the console is that it has the same hardware so issues are much less likely to crop up, you can pop in a game and play, and you can play comfortably on your couch with a controller. Being weaker graphically doesn't matter much as graphics don't make a game and current gen has had the weakest games yet the best graphics.

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

It's actually more like this. I gave you my opinion and don't care to argue with you about how godly the PS4 is. You really just annoy me and if I were to tell you that I am wrong, it would be to shut you up.

So....I am wrong and my opinion hasn't changed.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Ok fella, enjoy modern console gaming.

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

And, it's just GAMING by the way, and I'll enjoy it just the same as any other GAMER.

It's actually more like this. I gave you my opinion and don't care to argue with you about how godly the PS4 is. You really just annoy me and if I were to tell you that I am wrong, it would be to shut you up.

So....I am wrong and my opinion hasn't changed.

LMAO, it has nothing to do with how good the PS4 is, it was simply to state the PS4 works like a console is supposed to, that was all. I guess doing what you are supposed to is considered "godly" according to you. And PS4 is worse than the PS3 due to lack of games (this whole generation has had nothing great to play). GAMES are what matter, nothing else. I don't know how you concluded I'm some sorta PS4 fanboy trying to force upon how awesome the PS4 is.

 

[Strelok]

I guess you're one of those people that can't admit when they're wrong.

Not sure WeepingAngels has that problem, perhaps it's you with the inability to see the massive flaws in consoles? Or is the issue that you can't let go of the decrepit dinosaur that is console gaming? Jim Sterling has a video for you posted on October 17th hard to believe you are missing these massive holes in your plug and play "experience" on PS4, unless of course you are not telling the truth... Hmmmmm