Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

sonicneedslovetoo

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The real question is: why has nobody written an article about this and called it "Anything but Quiet"
Doesn't matter what they're talking about, they just need to.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Dr. Crawver said:
IceForce said:
Thyunda said:
Again, it's a case of creatively working backwards, because this explanation actually makes it even worse.
She dresses like an idiot because she breathes through her skin.
She breathes through her skin because she hasn't got any lungs.
She hasn't got any lungs because a villain burned them all up.
Is there an explanation for how her lungs can get burned to a crisp, but her skin is able to remain pristine and perfectly serviceable?
Apparently her parasites gave her new skin or something.

Why skullface didn't get the same treatment? Who knows.

Seems contrived.
Skullface is the kind of guy to keep a freaky look primarily for the sake of freaking out the normies. Plus, the whole "They took everything that marked me as a man, but they couldn't take my skull" thing, so it's also probably principle.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Zhukov said:
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."
I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.
Besides the point.

I'm saying that if I want sexy images on my computer screen, regardless of whether we're talking cutesy or gratuitously hardcore or anything in between, I can make that happen. Easily. I don't need video games to provide that.

And I especially don't need it when the result is otherwise pretty good games fucking up their character designs in service to my theoretical boner.
Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.
 

Redryhno

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erttheking said:
Ouroboros said:
Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.
Or...you know, the people that don't mind her are mindful of the context in which she's presented.(that of MGS and how batshittingly stupid some of the designs are to begin with if you're going to use "the real world" complaint) and that of the something like thirty cutscenes she's in(not including helicopter scenes which you can skip by not taking her with you) there's only like four that has her "presenting" herself to you the way people keep talking about her only posing being done...Hell, even Snake "poses" the same way in the helicopter scenes, you just don't see it because of the camera angle. Most of them Quiet's just sitting around, honestly pretty covered up. Crossed legs, covering her boobs with her arms, you don't even notice the bikini straps for the most part. Honestly she looks bored most of the time like that.

And please, please, PLEASE, don't pull that crap you just pulled here with the "The people that mind her care more about MGS than you people that don't." It's a bullshit argument on the same level as that "fake gamer girl" crap people decided was unacceptable years ago, and you have to know it.

This is a series that REQUIRES you to play the other games to understand what is going on, which means the people playing this are either just jumping on the bandwagon and don't really know the nuance and story of the world(so they're honestly probably more confused with why Snake/BB has something like seven names and why a bipedal weapons platform is actually more functional and stable than tanks), or they're people that have been fans of the series for years and got the new one because it's worth it to continue with the world. Some people don't mind Quiet, and still have alot of respect for MGS, some people do mind Quiet, and still have alot of respect for MGS. Please don't try to boil it down to something as selfish as you're making it out to be. I'd argue like with most controversies when it comes to video games, most people playing don't give a flying fuck about Quiet or what she wears or the camera angles.

And as a side note, I'm both saddened and unsurprised that, once again, a side character's attire(that you can basically ignore for the majority of the game) has been deemed more important than the rest of the game if you go by how many responses this has gotten in comparison to MULTIPLE THREADS asking for people's opinions on MGS5.

erttheking said:
The Material Sheep said:
No kidding. I was expecting something dark, like she got raped and this was her trying to take control of her sexuality (Which happens a lot) and instead, she got hurt, so she needs to breath through her skin. Wot?
And exactly how is your idea any better? It still takes away her agency that people are complaining about, but now there's just a generic rape story(don't even try to sell it a different way, it's generic), but without any MGS flair. And c'mon, she was an assassin sent to kill BB and was BURNED ALIVE, I think that's a dark enough backstory. Like seriously, not every woman that dresses oddly has to do it because they were raped...

Edit: As for why Skullface didn't get the skin transplant or whatever, I'd reckon it may have something to do with the guy being very much focused on Revenge as his theme and idea of the game, which is why he has the cowboy hat(a very much western reference which often has some kind of revenge plot going on), the mask(another prop of MANY revenge stories), his scars and discoloration he got long before Cipher, the guy's just oozing in revenge tropiness.
 

Don Incognito

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Ouroboros said:
Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.
I see we've now moved on to the ad hominem attack portion of the discussion. How delightful.
 

Redryhno

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Don Incognito said:
Ouroboros said:
Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.
I see we've now moved on to the ad hominem attack portion of the discussion. How delightful.
Hey, people already pulled the "You obviously don't care about MGS if you don't mind Quiet" quite a few posts back junk, ad hominem started already.
 

Erttheking

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Ouroboros said:
So MGS is badly written, what's your point? It's a silly series that happened to basically invent a set of extremely lasting and entertaining gameplay conventions. Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.
MGS is badly written and this is one of the many ways in which it is badly written, that's my point. I brought it up because the OP asked about it. I mean if you AGREE that it's badly written, why do you have a problem with it? You clearly don't consider the game to be any high form of writing. You flat out said it's stupid, so why do you have a problem with me criticizing it?

Also, you're gonna have to explain how criticizing a game equals me collapsing. I'd appreciate it if you managed to counter my point without resorting to mudslinging.
 

Redryhno

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erttheking said:
Ouroboros said:
So MGS is badly written, what's your point? It's a silly series that happened to basically invent a set of extremely lasting and entertaining gameplay conventions. Intelligent and emotionally stable people don't collapse because badly written shlock is shlocky, and they don't try to pick it apart in places and not in others.
MGS is badly written and this is one of the many ways in which it is badly written, that's my point. I brought it up because the OP asked about it. I mean if you AGREE that it's badly written, why do you have a problem with it? You clearly don't consider the game to be any high form of writing. You flat out said it's stupid, so why do you have a problem with me criticizing it?

Also, you're gonna have to explain how criticizing a game equals me collapsing. I'd appreciate it if you managed to counter my point without resorting to mudslinging.
Maybe because you don't "criticize" much of anything about games besides their portrayal of a handful of women and the normal "Fuck <this week's hated AAA company here>" everyone does?

And I've yet to see you in one of the numerous threads asking about MGS5 or talking about any of the shortcomings that don't involve a side character that has like four provocative scenes in something like forty scenes they appear in in the entire game? Maybe that's why they have a problem with you criticizing it? Because as usual it's completely overblown?
 

Zhukov

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Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.
Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Zhukov said:
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.
Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?
What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place? This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)

Seriously dude, you guys are starting to come off more and more like you're body shaming more than anything else. You're also starting to give off the vibe that none of you even played this series until Quiet's design drew your ire.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Ouroboros said:
Thank you, yes the first part at least is exactly the case. I can't speak to the second, but it seems like the kind of thing consistent with the people picking one unbelievable element out of a giant pile, and then holding that one element up for ridicule.
Yeah, it's almost as is said one element is what the thread's title and opening post were specifically about. Damn those SJWs, staying on topic like that.

So, is it possible to not like an aspect of a game where the only female character of note is A) optional, B) mute, and C) dressed like a video game parody image while not being some kind of game-hating, hypocritical, anti-sex crusader?

Is there even a middle ground here?
 

IamLEAM1983

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All I know is I took a look at Quiet's design, sighed and went "Kojima, amirite?" as if someone were around to offer a rebuttal or some kind of agreement.

On the one hand, yes, her design is ridiculous and detracts from how otherwise compelling her character is. I can't wait for the PC version to be modded so her alternate costume is unlocked from the very beginning, honestly.

On the other, I'm a North American Joe Schmoe, with North American Joe Schmoe ideals and aesthetic considerations. I feel no need to include fanservice in my gaming content because I've culturally segregated the activities that involve me looking at tits (e.g. porn) from the majority of activities that don't (e.g. gaming). Aggressive titillation just isn't something I was taught or conditioned to respond to in video games. I can understand, however, that other cultures might consider it natural to seed gaming narratives with gratuitous raunchiness and I don't need to ascribe to some kind of Special Snowflake mentality. I'll just unlock Quiet's alternate costume and go from there.

It doesn't stop me from having a little reactionary devil flailing on my left shoulder, expressing all the useless outrage I'm trying to rationalize away. I feel like the game is expecting me to have fits of cartoonish libido like Tex Avery's wolf or Dragon Ball's Master Roshi, or as if there's someone, somewhere, who's genuinely zooming in on Quiet's rack and cracking a self-satisfied grin. I can't even remotely put myself in the right mindset to pull off the first, and the second just demeans the entire experience.

I felt like playing a smartly-crafted game with intriguing systems, and instead I'm having juvenile crap shoved my way. I remember MGSIV leaving me with similar feelings - I was as intellectually intrigued as I was repulsed by what I was seeing.

Captcha: whoopee cushion
Oh, come on!
 

Zhukov

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Ouroboros said:
Zhukov said:
Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?
The Twilight movies are crap because they're based on crap, and made to be crap. They're not crap because they have sexy bits, but because of a total lack of anything redeeming. It's that lack of redeeming qualities that makes it crap, and sex can't save it.
Not my point. You're tilting at windmills.

I chose Twilight because it is, or was, a popular thing that many people think is crap, not because it had sex in it.

If you want to argue that MGS is crap, pointing to fanservice does nothing to prove your point.
Annnnnd still tilting at windmills.

I'm not saying MGS is crap. I'm saying this one specific character design in MGS5 is crap.

Metalix Knightmare said:
What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place?
She's a combatant. She spends her time leopard crawling around the gravelly hills of Afghanistan shooting people.

She does this while wearing a bikini and torn stockings. Hence "out of place".

But wait, perhaps there is a reason for this odd attire. Some dazzling narrative twist from the brilliant mind of Hideo Kojima that will make be ashamed of my harsh words! What does the man himself have to say on the matter? Oh, it's because he wants to sell more figurines. Also, she breathes/photosynthesizes through her skin. (Which just raises a ton of other questions. Like why can't oxygen get through clothing? How does she survive at nighttime? What are the stockings for?) Hence "crap".

This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)
The presence of other shit designs does not make Quiet's design any better.

(Also, wasn't the shirtless dude an immortal guy who didn't feel pain or something? Or am I thinking of a different shirtless dude?)

Seriously dude, you guys are starting to come off more and more like you're body shaming more than anything else.
Nah. If she was wearing that getup somewhere that it made sense I for one would have no problem with it. For example, if the character was one of those floor models at a munitions trade show (which is literally the only place I could think of where that design would make any sense at all).

You're also starting to give off the vibe that none of you even played this series until Quiet's design drew your ire.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've played bits and pieces of MGS1, a lot of MGS3, the first five hours of MGS4, The Phantom Pain and a few missions of MGS5. None of the game were good enough to get me to finish them, with the possible exception of MGS3.

I don't consider myself particularly knowledgeable on the series, but I don't have to be to point at a design and say, "that's shit".
 

Casual Shinji

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Ouroboros said:
So you just have a complaint about how long her skin was on display? What's the right amount of time to wear it, that wouldn't hurt your sensibilities/feelings?
The amount that doesn't tear me out of the experience due to how ridiculous it is.

But by all means, continue on about how everyone that complains about Quiet is just a big sissy that hates sex.

I suppose that gives sex in media a complete immunity from complaints, because everyone who does just hates it, right? 'Oh what, you hated Black Widow running around in her underwear the whole time in that latest Marvel movie? *pfft* Puritan.'
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Zhukov said:
(Also, wasn't the shirtless dude an immortal guy who didn't feel pain or something? Or am I thinking of a different shirtless dude?)
His reference was to Sniper Wolf (the cleavage) and Vulcan Raven (shirtless dude). You are thinking of Vamp (shirtless with a trench coat) who was paired with Fortune (swimsuit and boots). Personally I'd argue that Sniper Wolf and Vulcan Raven are pretty good designs, Sniper Wolf has appropriate attire apart from the zipper that got stuck in a really low position (and that qualifies as pretty modest fanservice by the standards of the late 90's) and Vulcan Raven has a design that oozes barely controlled aggression, complete with the classical "shirtless barbarian" physique of Conan fame. Vamp and Fortune meanwhile have fanservicey designs that also highlights their total disregard for their enemies weapons (Vamp being immortal and Fortune being unhittable).

In comparison Quiet's visual design is fanservice with no other point to it. Even with the massive fanservice in previous MGS games the character designs have all been stellar, including S&M dressed Psycho Mantis (the guy who loves to torment his opponents). What does Quiet's design tell us about her? Not much, especially not that she's supposedly an elite sniper. Her outfit is fanservice for no other reason and with a contrived in-game excuse. So yes, you are right on the money about Quiet.
 

Erttheking

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Ouroboros said:
You know, I really don't get what point you're trying to make. I'm talking about Quiet...in a thread about Quiet. Is that really something I'm supposed to be ashamed of?

I've skimmed the other threads involving MGSV but really the game used to hold my attention. Not so much after...well lets just say I learned about a few plot developments that kind of pissed me off and ruined any chance I ever had of playing the game. But what really are you trying to get at? I have to spend a certain amount of posts in other threads for my arguments here to be legitimate?
 

IceForce

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Ouroboros said:
Thank you, yes the first part at least is exactly the case. I can't speak to the second, but it seems like the kind of thing consistent with the people picking one unbelievable element out of a giant pile, and then holding that one element up for ridicule.
The reason why this "one unbelievable element" is being picked on above all else is because it's literally shoved in the face of the player, during cutscenes and whatnot.
I mean, hell, you'd be forgiven for thinking the camera operator was reeeeally distracted or something, the way he zooms in, lingers over, and ogles Quiet.

It would be like if every cutscene in Mass Effect that featured Samara had the camera inexplicably zoom right in on her cleavage and linger there for a while before finally moving on.

(Picture unrelated.)

 

Fox12

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Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.
Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?
What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place? This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)

Seriously dude, you guys are starting to come off more and more like you're body shaming more than anything else. You're also starting to give off the vibe that none of you even played this series until Quiet's design drew your ire.
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous. And the justification is apparently that she breathes through her skin due to severe burning, despite the fact that we dont see said burns. It's almost as if they didn't want her horribly burned skin to ruin her sex appeal, so they made her look like a brizilian bikini model instead. There are just so many layers to the awful.

As for the other characters, you win. Their designs are also incredibly stupid. But this thread isn't about them, it's about quiet.