Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

stormtrooper9091

New member
Jun 2, 2010
506
0
0
It's there to stir controversy and generate buzz because everybody is offended by everything today. The character does its job perfectly, it causes a zillion "I have a solid snake in my pants" comments and it is GLORIOUS.

Internet just needs thicker skin, that's all. Kojima doesn't give two shits about political correctness, gender equality and what have you. And it WORKS
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
Ouroboros said:
Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.
 

Coreless

New member
Aug 19, 2011
298
0
0
I say just we call this design the one bad apple and move on, it doesn't make the MGS games or Kojima any better or worse off then before, its just a missed opportunity that could have been more. If there is one take away for me with Quiet, its that she was easily the most interesting character in the game and really helped make the game all the more memorable after its all done and I'm perfectly cool with that.
 

Dr. Crawver

Doesn't know why he has premium
Nov 20, 2009
1,100
0
0
IceForce said:
Thyunda said:
Again, it's a case of creatively working backwards, because this explanation actually makes it even worse.
She dresses like an idiot because she breathes through her skin.
She breathes through her skin because she hasn't got any lungs.
She hasn't got any lungs because a villain burned them all up.
Is there an explanation for how her lungs can get burned to a crisp, but her skin is able to remain pristine and perfectly serviceable?
Apparently her parasites gave her new skin or something.

Why skullface didn't get the same treatment? Who knows.

Seems contrived.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Eh, America is a surprisingly repressed society where it comes to sexuality. That's why it's a big deal. Perhaps we can blame Christian roots steeped in Augustinian anti-sex rhetoric in combination with a movement to desexualize women even though sexuality is hardwired into humanity.

Either way, it's a game, big deal. Do these people know about porn and the internet? Who am I kidding? The same people who are complaining about likely have a huge folder of porn hidden away on their computers featuring far more degrading actions and actual nudity. Like the classic Baptist that condemns someone for drinking a single beer while trying not to be recognized in the liquor store one town over.

Why? Because it's human nature to find things sexy and to want to be perceived as sexy. The argument simply isn't consistent. They want things to be sexy when it benefits them and their desires but complain at anything else that other people like.
 

The Material Sheep

New member
Nov 12, 2009
339
0
0
erttheking said:
Ouroboros said:
Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.
My issue with Quiet purely extends to this. We were promised a super dark secret for why Quiet dressed the way she did, and we got... she breathes through her skin. I don't care about the sexualization stuff, I just thought the explanation was dumb. Also the boob physics are really annoying to look at.
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
The Material Sheep said:
No kidding. I was expecting something dark, like she got raped and this was her trying to take control of her sexuality (Which happens a lot) and instead, she got hurt, so she needs to breath through her skin. Wot?
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,768
0
0
Lightknight said:
Either way, it's a game, big deal. Do these people know about porn and the internet? Who am I kidding? The same people who are complaining about likely have a huge folder of porn hidden away on their computers featuring far more degrading actions and actual nudity. Like the classic Baptist that condemns someone for drinking a single beer while trying not to be recognized in the liquor store one town over.
Y'know, disapproving of contrived sexy character designs and watching porn isn't mutually exclusive, nor is it hypocritical.

A person can enjoy ice cream and still turn their nose up when someone starts pouring icing sugar on their pizza.

Hell, the availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away. Hell, someone's probably already made MGS5 themed porn. So why do I need my video games to be making fumbling attempts at sexiness that only result in shitty character designs?
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,456
2,261
118
Country
United States
Okay, look. I like porn, I like Baseball. However, I'm not such a big fan of the two things mixing. Not really interested in the Seventh Inning Gangbang, know what I'm saying?

Same thing with games. Is it possible to not like an aspect of a game where the only female character of note is A) optional, B) mute, and C) dressed like a video game parody image while not being some kind of game-hating, hypocritical, anti-sex crusader?

Is there even a middle ground here?
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
altnameJag said:
Okay, look. I like porn, I like Baseball. However, I'm not such a big fan of the two things mixing. Not really interested in the Seventh Inning Gangbang, know what I'm saying?

Same thing with games. Is it possible to not like an aspect of a game where the only female character of note is A) optional, B) mute, and C) dressed like a video game parody image while not being some kind of game-hating, hypocritical, anti-sex crusader?

Is there even a middle ground here?
People have a tendency to...oversimplify the viewpoints of those who disagree with them. Just kind of an easy way out, to have the people you disagree with think horrible things.
 

Coreless

New member
Aug 19, 2011
298
0
0
Zhukov said:
"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."
I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,768
0
0
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."
I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.
Besides the point.

I'm saying that if I want sexy images on my computer screen, regardless of whether we're talking cutesy or gratuitously hardcore or anything in between, I can make that happen. Easily. I don't need video games to provide that.

And I especially don't need it when the result is otherwise pretty good games fucking up their character designs in service to my theoretical boner.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
altnameJag said:
Okay, look. I like porn, I like Baseball. However, I'm not such a big fan of the two things mixing. Not really interested in the Seventh Inning Gangbang, know what I'm saying?
You don't like the Seventh-Inning Gangbang? Have you ever considered that baseball might not be intended for you?

<.<

Is there even a middle ground here?
Yes, but it gets fought over, too. Even if a handful of games go the PC/SJW/whatever you call it route, it's controversial. Do you remember the Hyrule Warrior rumour that there might be an optional playable kid sister character in the 3DS version of Hyrule Warriors?

When even little things like this cause controversy, it's hard to imagine actually settling on middle ground.

Zhukov said:
Hell, someone's probably already made MGS5 themed porn.
Please tell me they at least got David Hayter to voice that.

Also, my porn folder's out in the open on my media drive and named "porn."

You really can enjoy porn and think non-porn media is stupid when it does things like this.
 

Coreless

New member
Aug 19, 2011
298
0
0
Zhukov said:
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
"The availability of porn just makes me wonder why fanservice is at all necessary. I mean, there is literally more sex and nudity than I could watch in a lifetime a mere five clicks away."
I'm having a hard time understanding this, for me fanservice has always been nothing but harmless teasing and never gratuitous, while full on porn can encompass anything from typical sexual behavior to hardcore niche fetishism. Do people really consider seeing a character bend over in a tight outfit (which at best might make someone roll their eyes) the same as full on porn because that seems like quite a stretch.
Besides the point.

I'm saying that if I want sexy images on my computer screen, regardless of whether we're talking cutesy or gratuitously hardcore or anything in between, I can make that happen. Easily. I don't need video games to provide that.

And I especially don't need it when the result is otherwise pretty good games fucking up their character designs in service to my theoretical boner.
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
Ouroboros said:
erttheking said:
Ouroboros said:
Pure fantasy? MGS isn't pure fantasy. It tries to establish itself as being in the real world with some changes. It has internal logic and rules that must be followed.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like the people who don't mind Quiet have a lower opinion of MGS than people who do mind her. The people who don't mind her keep saying that MGS is pure fantasy where anything apparently be thrown in and it's ok and "what do you expect". Kind of feels like it's selling Kojima short. I think the guy can do great stuff when he sets his mind to it, but the people around here defending quiet seem to mainly be saying he only makes stupid stuff.
It's total bullshit. TOTAL bullshit. You have balloons the size of a small car lifting TANKS off the ground. People pull rifles out of their hands. Resting cures gunshot wounds.

If you see consistent rules and logic, then that's in your imagination, not in the games.
Well then, Metal Gear is a poorly written series. Every series, no matter how crazy and out there, needs to have consistent rules. Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan, which ends with entire galaxies being used as throwing discs, has consistent internal logic, because there are ways in which that can happen. Kill la Kill, which has cloth from space trying to assimilate the human race, has rules about what can and cannot happen. A world creates its own rules and then follows them.

I didn't know Kojima's work was regarded so poorly.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,456
2,261
118
Country
United States
Ouroboros said:
It's total bullshit. TOTAL bullshit. You have balloons the size of a small car lifting TANKS off the ground. People pull rifles out of their hands. Resting cures gunshot wounds.

If you see consistent rules and logic, then that's in your imagination, not in the games.
Or you see game mechanic workarounds. Like corpses disappearing after a while. Or Doomguy carrying 9 weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo and rockets. Those are shortcuts to facilitate gameplay. Silly, but whatever. Mechanics doesn't necessarily equate to narrative.

Fairly certain Quiet's outfit isn't there to save CPU cycles. Narratively inconsistent. The End didn't photosynthesis himself, he had a moss ghillie suit do it. Quiet can photosynthesis because? For that matter, do her clothes and weapons disappear? Are they infected with parasites too? Or is all of her disappearing a gameplay thing and not a narrative thing?

Should've just stuck with nanomachines. They're basically magic already.

EDIT: You're in a thread asking people why they don't like a character in a video game. When people say why, you probably shouldn't be telling them they feel wrong. It's okay if someone doesn't like a thing you like.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
17,364
1,504
118
Lightknight said:
Either way, it's a game, big deal. Do these people know about porn and the internet? Who am I kidding? The same people who are complaining about likely have a huge folder of porn hidden away on their computers featuring far more degrading actions and actual nudity. Like the classic Baptist that condemns someone for drinking a single beer while trying not to be recognized in the liquor store one town over.
You said it yourself; It's a game. Not porn.

This is why we complain about a bikini clad girl in Metal Gear and not the hundreds of Japanese porn games out there. It's not the sex itself, it's that it's horribly, horribly misplaced. Did you see anyone complain about The Witcher 3's nudey bits? No, because 1) it's only there if you're looking for it, and 2) it generally fits the context. You don't have Yennifer or Triss in bikini armor the whole game and bending over every 5 seconds.
Coreless said:
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
Then you at the very least make it fit the game, not force it in there with the severed limb of an elephant. This is why you don't have a model with barely covered, floppy breasts run into frame in There Will Be Blood, eventhough most of its audience members probably like sex and like to look at sexy images on occasion.
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Apr 23, 2020
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
Ouroboros said:
What does the real world have to do with anything? That's not what consistent rules are about. It's about a story following its own internal logic. And no matter how close or far you are from real life, you need to have internal rules that you follow. Harry Potter cannot sprout wings and fly, that goes against the rules of his world

Like I said, if something doesn't follow its own rules, it's badly written. So...MGS is badly written.

Uh, what with Kojima trying to constantly have messages about nuclear warheads and with Ground Zeroes having the inhumane conditions of the prisoners of war along with the mindscrew ending of MGS2 and everything else he's ever done...I think Kojima IS trying to take this game seriously. It's just "Consistent tone" is something he's only ever heard vague theories of.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,456
2,261
118
Country
United States
Ouroboros said:
Feel free to respond to this, then.

"MGS Doesn't follow it's own rules. Gunshots kill some people, other people can shrug them off with time. A direct hit with a rocket doesn't even injure Big Boss long-term (in game action), but being near Paz blowing up put him in a coma for 9 years? I have inventory limits to my guns and ammo (even darts), but I can carry enough (lets be generous and say) Hydrogen gas, balloons, and rigs for 36 heavy vehicles without even slowing down?

It's a fun game, it's campy fun. It's a game in which you seriously hide from people in cardboard boxes. Kojima isn't the one who takes all of this too seriously, it's outrageoholics on sites like this."
"Hello, game mechanics, thing that I was explicitly talking about, how're you? Still making the game enjoyable to play? Is the bad man still using you to try and justify shitty narrative writing and character design? I'm so sorry."
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_85_if-video-games-were-realistic/

Look, someone not liking a thing you like is okay, really!
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
17,364
1,504
118
Ouroboros said:
I was just watching an episode of the tv show Chuck. Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) is dressed in a kind of scanty pseudo-arab bikini, and doing a writing dance with some finger cymbals. That's not porn either, it's just pandering to their demographic.
Yeah? Was there a ludicrously stupid explaination as to why she needed to wear that outfit ALL THE TIME? Even during moments of genuine drama?

Sure, show off the attractive features of your actors/characters once in a while. But if that's all they ever do and it's completely out of character, in a story that's trying to come at you from a serious angle, then their presence is just going to poison the experience.