Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

nomotog_v1legacy

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Quite is one of the more objectfided women in MGS. (I haen't played 4 yet so I'll leave that out.) Ya she wears less, the camera ogles her more (though you do have limited control over that), but the biggest part is that how she dresses doesn't get to be her choice. She isn't show as a sexual person like sniper wolf an her weird death fetish. She is basically an object to ogle. (I mean you can paint her gold for bucks sake. You have to work to be so transparent.)
 

Zhukov

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Schadrach said:
Zhukov said:
Yeah, there were some fanservicey ones, but there were also cool or competent ones (Boss says hi).
I always find it odd that a female character can be either sexually appealing or competent, but somehow the one prevents the other. Rather like when I see someone say that they had high hopes for an anime being well written, but there was fanservice, and one somehow prevents the other instead of being unrelated.
Oh, those characteristics don't cancel each other out. Given that most fictional heroes and heroines are designed to at least be moderately attractive and are competent almost by definition, it would be bizarre if those things were somehow mutually exclusive.

Thing is, it's not a matter of her being merely sexually appealing.

From what I've seen of her (only played bits and pieces of the game) Quiet is actually a pretty good character, at least by MGS's shaky standards. Thing is, then Kojima went and gave her a visual design that makes no fucking sense given her role in the game, completely clashes with her personality and gives her stripper mannerisms that exist purely so the audience can play one-handed.

The shitty design subtracts from the whole. Just as it would if Snake spent the entire game dressed like Magic Mike with giant clown shoes that made squeaky noises with every step. (And I'd bet my fucking home that you wouldn't find so many people springing to Kojima's defense if that was the case.)

Then to cap it off, rather than just taking the Bayonetta approach of, "Yeah, she's a sexy chick. Because sexy chicks are fun. Deal with it", he tries to justify it with reasons pulled straight out of his arse. "Yeah guys, she's, umm... photosynthetic, yeah, she needs to breathe through her skin. That's why she wears a bikini and ripped tights. Teeheehee." (Never mind that clothes aren't airtight anyway. I can breath through my nose and mouth just fine with fabric over my face. And if it's sunlight she needs then how does she survive at night?)

If you're going to include blatant wank-fodder in your game then fine. There's a market for that. But for the love of God have the balls to call it what it is.
 

go-10

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it's just the way the internet works now, everything insults someone and everyone takes issue with everything. I think the fault lies more in the reason than the design itself. If Kojima had said "I want to make a hot and sexy character like Vamp... but female this time" nobody would care because he did just what he said he was going to do.
If you ask me Kojima is a big mecha fan and he just wanted to have Yoko from Gurren Lagann be a character in his game :p

that aside I think Quiet is a great character and is a badass, sure she has some mental balance issues but who doesn't... and well I know I will get a lot of hate for this but... I like sexy characters :)
 

maninahat

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I'm not sure people are making a big deal, unless big deal means "occasionally writing an article about it" or saying "Hmph, this is a badly designed character". But the answer is that it is this blatant bit of ill fitting fan service, that Kojima had to insert a pathetic in-game excuse to justify. There is also apparently a rapey thing that apparently happens later, though having not played the game, so I can't comment on it - though the whole thing is reportedly tone death.
 

happyninja42

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Samtemdo8 said:
Zhukov said:
People are talking about it because it's a thing in a game that just came out. It's topical.

People aren't talking about the things in the previous games because those games came out years ago. People talked about them then. For example, I remember Yahtzee writing about the female characters in MGS4 back when MGS4 was topical.

It's also worth noting that previous MGS games tended to have a more mixed bag when it came to female characters. Yeah, there were some fanservicey ones, but there were also cool or competent ones (Boss says hi). It stands out more in MGS5 because you basically just have the one woman running around alongside the sensibly dressed guys and she's in a bikini and doing stripper routines.

I'd say more, but I'd basically be paraphrasing Jim Sterling, so I'll just link his video.

Yes I know all about the Boss (And I still feel remorse everytime), I also know alot of strong female characters in other Japanese games, Resident Evil females in perticular, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Rebecca Chambers, and the unfairly overlooked Sheva Alomar from RE5. And also look at Left 4 Dead Rochelle and Zoey (the latter looks so much like Claire :p)

Anyway back on MGS 5: Didn't Jim once made a video where giving too much attention to something automatically makes it famous, like his one video about Anita Sarkissean is a monster created by the internet's negative response? He's making a monster out of Quiet and now everyone knows Quiet. I remember seeing the first trailer to Phantom Pain and when I first saw Quiet my reaction was "Well she's only wearing a bra because she's in a desert and its hot"
People already knew about Quiet before Jim talked about her. Hell I don't play the MGS series at all and even I knew about her and the controversy about her sexual representation before the game came out. As Jim pointed out however, the issue with most is that the creator of the game responded to criticism saying "There is a good reason why she's dressed like that, and when you learn what it is, you will feel bad about your negative comments". Well, no, sorry but people don't agree. He tried to justify his fanservice with some "in-game rationality" that would somehow make critics hang their heads in shame. But it's not, it's simply fanservice, and his reason is a really stupid and flimsy justification for fan service.

Now I don't really care one way or another about fanservice, some games it's annoyed me to no end, others it hasn't bothered me at all. But if you come out and say "X reason is why I have this woman in a stripper outfit", and it's actually Y reason, it's understandable why people would call bullshit. I agree with Jim that if he'd just been up front and was like "Yes, I wanted a sexy woman in the game for fanservice reasons" Ok fine, fair enough. I might not agree with having it in there, but at least you were honest with us.

They're not "making a big deal out of Quiet" beyond the usual "Yet another game with nothing but stripper girls and regular men" complaint, which I think is a fair complaint. They're making an issue of the blatant lie from the creator about why he put the fanservice in the game.
 

Rastrelly

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Samtemdo8 said:
I mean seriously whats the big deal, ooh she wheres a bikini into battle and poses all sexually.
Because people are - mostly - stupid and unable to set their priorities the way to profit themselves, society they are a part of, and, in the end, humanity.

Captcha: stuck in mud
Well said, Captcha!
 

Areloch

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Well, we're back to "It doesn't matter what the in-game explanation for this is, I think it's stupid, so there!" tromp I guess.

The game gives an in-universe explanation behind it that makes sense as explained. If that's not good enough for you, then...well, that's your problem I guess.

Besides, MGS has always had about as much male cheesecake as it has female.
 

Casual Shinji

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Samtemdo8 said:
So whats makes Quiet so special?
Because ignoring the blatant and rather uncomfortable fanservice (like holy shit, there's some new lows), the game doesn't even own up to it. Had she just been running around in a "bikini" top because she's just a weirdo who likes to be half naked, I'd be partially okay with it. But the game makes up the most bullshit of bullshit reasons for her to look like that, and it's a condition that never even gets mentioned again. Oh, and we're supposed to take this whole event seriously by the way. It's like if you had a female character that's walking around with her tits exposed, because she sees through her nipples; Yeah, it's a reason, but fuck me if it isn't retarded all to hell.

Every oppertunity is taken to have Quiet try and give you a hard-on whenever she's in the picture, and it's just gross. Both EVA and Sniper Wolf you could take seriously, because their sex appeal wasn't smeared all over your face with a greasy palm. With Quiet you can't look past it, because the game constantly wants you to be aware of what a hot bod and what supple, squishable breasts she has. She's in her cell? She'll either be lying topless on her stomach, or taking a shower and playing in the water. She's in the chopper? She'll be posing and stretching so you'll be able to gawk at every nook and cranny of her. And that's not even mentioning the cutscenes.

By all means, make her look sexy, I'm fine with sexy, but there's a difference between making a character sexy and just having them look and move like a literal fuckdoll 100% of the time.

Quiet is a great character ruined by her being whored around by Kojima. And remember, this is a 50-year old man we're talking about.
 

thewatergamer

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If you want a better fleshed out opinion watch Jim's video but to summarize, Quiet's design is incredibly out of place for the narrative of MGSV and to "add fuel to the fire" Kojiima said that people would feel "ashamed" of criticizing her design before the game came out because he apparently had some huge story reason for it, well the game came out and the "story reason" is a load of Bullshit...
 

shintakie10

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Areloch said:
Well, we're back to "It doesn't matter what the in-game explanation for this is, I think it's stupid, so there!" tromp I guess.

The game gives an in-universe explanation behind it that makes sense as explained. If that's not good enough for you, then...well, that's your problem I guess.

Besides, MGS has always had about as much male cheesecake as it has female.
The explanation is as fine as it could possibly have been. The rest is bullshit. Pure bullshit.

It was played up as some earth shattering bullshit that was supposed to make people feel bad about the criticism and instead of it being literally anything that could be plausibly explained (retaking of sexual identity, her being trans, anything) that actually would cause people to pause, it ended up being fake sciency bullshit.

Not only that, but they use that opportunity to ogle her, constantly, in the most ridiculous manners possible. Sure she breathes through her skin. Fine. She has to wear skimpy as shit clothes because of it. Fine. Why not fuck with expectation then and not have the ridiculous dance in the rain bullshit. Have her be closer to the Boss and not a hypersexed up stripper.

There was a tweet I remember specifically about this very problem when it comes to Quiet. You'll be in a deep, emotional moment with Quiet. Then BAM! Camera zooms in on her tits/ass/crotch and wants you to stay in the deep emotional moment. That's fuckin stupid and shows the exact reasoning she's in there. She's in there to be ogled. All that backstory they thought up? All that character development? Ignore that because they're titties on the screen!

Its degrading to the character and its degrading to the players that try to take it seriously.
 

visiblenoise

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They're prudes who simply seized the opportunity to be open about it while pretending to really criticize it for messing with the tone.

I haven't played it yet, and if Kojima wants to rationalize it he can, but it looks like she's mainly going to turn out to be eyecandy for me, and I'm more than okay with that. I'm quite capable of thinking critically about the actual plot points while being mildly aroused.
 

Gyrick

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Mister K said:
*I did not play MGSV and is judging Quiet based only on her looks*

I am not making a big deal out of how she looks, I simply think that she looks bad.
I mean, this is one extreme, know as chaimail bikini:
Looks pretty. Impractical, but pretty.

This is a woman in fully clothed military-like attire(s):
Looks official, as if character means buisness.

This a woman with "something in between" street-like attire:
Looks practical (belt aside), but still reveals one of the sexiest parts of woman body (apart form every other part) which is belly.

Now look at Quiet:
She has the clothes that a cheap hooker on her bad day would be too decent to wear.
To be honest, what I have against Quiet is purely from an aesthetic point of view; her outfit looks kind of... well, stupid. It think the examples you have shown here REALLY demonstrates that. Of course, I know nothing about the character or the game (I am familiar with the MGS series), but that design just looks bad.
 

loa

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Well I don't know about you but when playing metal gear solid 2 I wasn't going like "man I really wish fortune crawled on the ground right now for no reason while the camera zooms on her ass".

Kinda makes me uncomfortable and is distracting and especially annoying when it ends in itself, adding nothing to the story because then all that's left is some marketing guy decreeing the target demographic I belong to likes this, therefore I like this by association which is kinda demeaning if you think about it which of course you don't.

Eva had kind of a reason to flop her tits out in a clumsy fashion I guess, being the bond femme fatale double agent and then there's also the mother symbolism since she is the surrogate for big bosses clones or somesuch.
There was also just cleavage so it was pretty tame compared to quiets nonsensical outfit.
She wore normal clothing. I guess you forgot that.

I didn't even know sniper wolf had her cleavage down until you pointed it out.
Because it was in like 1 scene and the game didn't rub it into my face over and over, go figure.
But I guess you forgot that too.

That only leaves the beasts in mgs4 who do their crawl when they appear but that evokes more of a mentally broken zombie image which they kind of are rather than to be "sexually enticing".
Or they crawl around on all fours like beasts but then they stand up and become the vulnerable beauty.
Which they do quite literally because the next thing that happens is you shooting them in the face.
You know. Theming.
Their skintight suits also make sense in context, that's probably what you'd wear when piloting a futuristic robot with your brain.
You forgot those too so I thought I'd bring them up.

I guess that covers all the overt female fanservice in the entire mgs franchise up to 5 and now you're fresh out of rationalizations to throw around.
There is no equivalent to quiet anywhere to be found, nothing for you to point towards and go "see?".
Now all that's left of you is another pathetic, directionless guy being "offended at people being offended" for the sake of being offended at something and of course, that irony completely flies over your head.
Bummer, isn't it?
 

Gyrick

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inu-kun said:
Might be off-topic, but I've been a week ago to a con, and it had some Mass Effect actors and for some reason they did a shitty snide remark at MGS5's Quiet while saying how Jack is better (because they live in a world that Mass Effect has better writing and characters than a Kojima game), and people cheered, isn't Jack just as bad character for wearing what amounts for a belt for no reason?
Ugh, I don't like Quiet's design either, but something about that (or at least how it was worded) just feels REALLY unprofessional to me. I think it's the combination of the criticism (which it valid) combined with the self promotion (which is tacky).
 

Erttheking

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Adam Jensen said:
Because people are boring and ignorant and they need a dumb controversy to fill the void in their empty little lives. Jim Sterling included, as much as I tend to agree with him when it comes to most other things. I'm not even being sarcastic. This is what I really think about people who raise a fuss over things like the portrayal of fictional characters. Especially a fictional character created by people who's culture and social sensibilities are so different from western culture that it's completely fuckin' pointless to even discuss it. Unless you think that you can change an entire culture. In that case your ignorance knows no bounds.
Oh. Well I love you too Adam.

Pardon me for thinking that the character was stupidly written.

OT: Because it's a recent game and Hideo tried to claim some sort of moral high ground when it came to writing her, when it came out it turns out that she has a really stupid reason for why she's half naked that makes no sense, even by Metal Gears own standards it contradicts itself, and it really looks like Hideo just wanted boobs. But he pretended it was something more. The condescending nature of the incident pisses me off.

That and it's Metal Gear's classic conflicting tones. I never played the game but I watched playthroughs of all of the MGS games. It reminds me of the End, who had a nicely written death scene....then he spits his dentures 20 feet into the air. Conflicting tones really take me out of a story.
 

Areloch

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shintakie10 said:
Areloch said:
Well, we're back to "It doesn't matter what the in-game explanation for this is, I think it's stupid, so there!" tromp I guess.

The game gives an in-universe explanation behind it that makes sense as explained. If that's not good enough for you, then...well, that's your problem I guess.

Besides, MGS has always had about as much male cheesecake as it has female.
The explanation is as fine as it could possibly have been. The rest is bullshit. Pure bullshit.

It was played up as some earth shattering bullshit that was supposed to make people feel bad about the criticism and instead of it being literally anything that could be plausibly explained (retaking of sexual identity, her being trans, anything) that actually would cause people to pause, it ended up being fake sciency bullshit.

Not only that, but they use that opportunity to ogle her, constantly, in the most ridiculous manners possible. Sure she breathes through her skin. Fine. She has to wear skimpy as shit clothes because of it. Fine. Why not fuck with expectation then and not have the ridiculous dance in the rain bullshit. Have her be closer to the Boss and not a hypersexed up stripper.

There was a tweet I remember specifically about this very problem when it comes to Quiet. You'll be in a deep, emotional moment with Quiet. Then BAM! Camera zooms in on her tits/ass/crotch and wants you to stay in the deep emotional moment. That's fuckin stupid and shows the exact reasoning she's in there. She's in there to be ogled.
Well, I'd probably wager that Kojima thought that "You're getting a stiffy because she's wearing a bikini, but if she doesn't she'll literally die" would have resonated more than it did. I'm seeing a LOT of cynicism towards the explanation though, so between people seeking to be offended by it, and people that just think it's stupid, yeah, his lines about how "Thinking her outfit is purely hot will make you feel bad" isn't going to actually make those people feel bad because they've got a offended-rage going already.

Also, which scenes are used in the game SPECIFICALLY to ogle her? If you're talking about her getting all up in Big Boss' face in the ACC, that'd ostensibly be in-character because it doesn't happen unless you have a high bond and it seems fairly apparently she'd like to tap BB's smoking-hot butt.

I'm trying to think of scenes on par with Miranda's butt shots in Mass Effect, but I'm not thinking of anything. The most I could think of is shots that pan across her butt or chest, but they don't linger there. Maybe I just haven't gotten in far enough to find an especially egregious scene yet though.

All that backstory they thought up? All that character development? Ignore that because they're titties on the screen!

Its degrading to the character and its degrading to the players that try to take it seriously.
Well, by that logic that'd hit a lot of the other main characters in the series as well. Most of the main characters in the series get at least some titilation. Shirt open, completely shirtless, zoom shots of their butts, completely naked, etc. It happens fairly evenly across the board.

It may bother you, but any errant titillation that crops up in the series hasn't instantly invalidated the characters for me.
 

Zhukov

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inu-kun said:
Might be off-topic, but I've been a week ago to a con, and it had some Mass Effect actors and for some reason they did a shitty snide remark at MGS5's Quiet while saying how Jack is better (because they live in a world that Mass Effect has better writing and characters than a Kojima game), and people cheered, isn't Jack just as bad character for wearing what amounts for a belt for no reason?
I'd say a better comparison for a character in Mass Effect would be Samara. While her outfit doesn't actually show a ton of skin, it clashes really hard with her character in the same way Quiet's does. She's supposed to be an impassive, merciless, chaste warrior-monk who engages in combat on a semi-regular basis. She wears high heels and a sort of wetsuit thing with little pauldrons and a cleavage window.

Jack's disregard for shirts at least somewhat fits her downright aggressive sexuality and general punky give-no-fucks attitude. (Also, I suspect her lack of clothing was at least partly so the artists could show off their tattoo designs.) Still, that cupless bra thing made of leather straps is pretty ridiculous. A tank top would have achieved the same effect and fit the character perfectly.

And this is coming from someone who likes both those specific characters and the ME games in general.

But hey, at least those characters don't break into stripper routines for no reason at all.
 

stroopwafel

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Casual Shinji said:
Quiet is a great character ruined by her being whored around by Kojima. And remember, this is a 50-year old man we're talking about.
An old man with more testosterone in his midget bod than you emasculated dudes in the prime of your life. *bah* :p I don't know I think Quiet is a fun character to look at and they don't want all that mo-capping to have been for naught. The characters in Metal Gear are often conceptualized heavily(in that they carry realistic themes) but very light-hearted(almost or completely comical) in their execution, leading to the kind of contradictions the series is known for and which is part of its charm. I mean, Kojima created Otacon and made him deliberately clumsy with women specifically just so 'geeks' would have someone to relate too. :p

I don't know but I also find it strange that Stephanie Joosten was completely fine with the portrayal of Quiet while random dudes on the internet consider a character wiggling her ass and showing her cleavage as a harcore porno all of a sudden. Exemplary of the prudish times we live in indeed. Fortunately Kojima is from a different generation. :p
 

Dantos

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Wait, if she breathes through her skin, shouldnt she be covering up with something breathable in a desert environment? I imagine, she might have difficulty with sunscreen, and sunburns could cause dangerous inflammation, especially over that much of her body, effectively closing off the pores shes using for respiration.