Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

Azure23

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It's a kinda silly in game excuse, but mostly I just feel like they missed an opportunity with the character. She can go invisible, she can change the color of her skin to some extent, why not just say she has octocamo esque technology built into her skin and have her blend in? It'd be useful for a sniper, and if Kojima wanted her to be in that outfit the rest of the time so be it, at least it makes a bit more sense for her clothing to be skimpy if her skin acts as a changing camo suit.

My real problem is with the way the camera is constantly ogling her, or her random helicopter yoga.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
stroopwafel said:
Casual Shinji said:
Quiet is a great character ruined by her being whored around by Kojima. And remember, this is a 50-year old man we're talking about.
An old man with more testosterone in his midget bod than you emasculated dudes in the prime of your life. *bah* :p I don't know I think Quiet is a fun character to look at and they don't want all that mo-capping to have been for naught. The characters in Metal Gear are often conceptualized heavily(in that they carry realistic themes) but very light-hearted(almost or completely comical) in their execution, leading to the kind of contradictions the series is known for and which is part of its charm. I mean, Kojima created Otacon and made him deliberately clumsy with women specifically just so 'geeks' would have someone to relate too. :p

I don't know but I also find it strange that Stephanie Joosten was completely fine with the portrayal of Quiet while random dudes on the internet consider a character wiggling her ass and showing her cleavage as a harcore porno all of a sudden. Exemplary of the prudish times we live in indeed. Fortunately Kojima is from a different generation. :p
Her design fucks up her character and the tone of the game overall. For the most part it tries to have a realistic feel too it, then suddenly you see this chick doing stripper stretches in a string bikini. If you think anything other than "this is so stupid" you need to jack off more. They should have had her covered in scrapes and scars and shit from rolling around in dirt in her dumb outfit.

This is Metal Gear, not Skullgirls. We all know that Kojima is a randy ol bastard but Quiet's design is just a new level of stupid.
 

Danny Dowling

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Quiet is one of my fav characters from the game. if some pretentious asshats want to complain about her then it's not something i care to listen to.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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AgentCooper said:
You did kind of see Big Boss as the Villain.

Big boss sold the world a phantom a imitation to get heat off himself after the MSF incident. It also explains how Big Boss survived Metal Gear 1. Big Boss sent Solid Snake "to his death" in hopes of Venom killing Solid.

Also, this explains it better than I ever could.
Pre-MG 1 Years have passed, Big Boss somehow became corrupt which leads to the modern storyline of Metal Gear Solid. In an era where ?war is nowhere to be found?, Big Boss got hungry and decided to develop a weapon of mass destruction (thinking that it will start a new era of war). He then sent Gray Fox into Venom Snake?s Outer Heaven fortress to look for intel about the said weapon. Gray Fox was captured and his last words in the radio was ?METAL GEAR.?

Metal Gear Big Boss then sent Solid Snake inside the fortress (confident that Solid Snake will fail) in order to save Gray Fox, and destroy Metal Gear. Solid Snake manages to save Gray Fox and destroyed the new Metal Gear, TX-55 by placing landmines next to its feet. Big Boss didn?t expect that Solid Snake will complete the mission so he decided to send his copy, Venom Snake. After destroying TX-55, the Outer Heaven fortress will self-destruct. While escaping, Solid Snake met with Venom Snake, believing he is the real Big Boss. Solid Snake defeated him, killing him, and manages to escape the Outer Heaven fortress. Venom Snake is now dead. The fortress was destroyed and the Operation Intrude N313 was a success. He got a call from the real Big Boss saying that he is still alive and they will meet again.
Nope. It doesn't justify BB from MG at all. I think both of the original MG games shouldn't be considered canon at this point. Konami should just make a sequel to V that serves as a prequel to MGS 1 to tie all the loose ends. No one cares about 28 year old NES game story anyway. Not even Kojima apparently. And last I heard, people actually want remakes of those games.
 

AgentCooper

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Adam Jensen said:
AgentCooper said:
You did kind of see Big Boss as the Villain.

Big boss sold the world a phantom a imitation to get heat off himself after the MSF incident. It also explains how Big Boss survived Metal Gear 1. Big Boss sent Solid Snake "to his death" in hopes of Venom killing Solid.

Also, this explains it better than I ever could.
Pre-MG 1 Years have passed, Big Boss somehow became corrupt which leads to the modern storyline of Metal Gear Solid. In an era where ?war is nowhere to be found?, Big Boss got hungry and decided to develop a weapon of mass destruction (thinking that it will start a new era of war). He then sent Gray Fox into Venom Snake?s Outer Heaven fortress to look for intel about the said weapon. Gray Fox was captured and his last words in the radio was ?METAL GEAR.?

Metal Gear Big Boss then sent Solid Snake inside the fortress (confident that Solid Snake will fail) in order to save Gray Fox, and destroy Metal Gear. Solid Snake manages to save Gray Fox and destroyed the new Metal Gear, TX-55 by placing landmines next to its feet. Big Boss didn?t expect that Solid Snake will complete the mission so he decided to send his copy, Venom Snake. After destroying TX-55, the Outer Heaven fortress will self-destruct. While escaping, Solid Snake met with Venom Snake, believing he is the real Big Boss. Solid Snake defeated him, killing him, and manages to escape the Outer Heaven fortress. Venom Snake is now dead. The fortress was destroyed and the Operation Intrude N313 was a success. He got a call from the real Big Boss saying that he is still alive and they will meet again.
Nope. It doesn't justify BB from MG at all. I think both of the original MG games shouldn't be considered canon at this point. Konami should just make a sequel to V that serves as a prequel to MGS 1 to tie all the loose ends. No one cares about 28 year old NES game story anyway. Not even Kojima apparently. And last I heard, people actually want remakes of those games.
So because you did not like it should not be considered cannon? I gave you a very reasonable explanation. Considering the official time line still cites the original MG timelines as cannon to the MGS lore. The only games not considered to be cannon by fans are Ghost Babel and Portable Ops.
 

sternduckling51

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Yeah. Why are we all talking about this. Why are we talking about this thing. Why is this the thing that we are talking about. We should all stop talking about this now. Seriously why are we still talking about this. This conversation should not have happened. WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS!

Anyway, heavy-handed and poorly-executed joke aside, it's something that people found kinda dumb and irritating about a big mainstream game that came out recently, why would people not be talking about it?

People DID talk about early MGS games with slightly embarassing female characters. Even if then didn't then so what if other games had similarly dodgy stuff with no/less criticism, "but EVERYBODY speeds down this road officer" is not a good defence.
 

DementedSheep

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Because it's current and even for video game standards she is whorey. I don't know why they even bothered with their flimsy narrative excuse, they using the same kinda logic as my intermediate aged cousin who thinks if they can twist words or have an excuse no matter how stupid they've won because you can't "technically prove" they are full of shit even though everyone knows they are full of shit. She is there to get her tits out. I would respect them more if they didn't pretend she is anything else and had there to be fucked between missions.
 

Redryhno

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Redd the Sock said:
Because we're a lot more politically minded now than we were for past games. Actually, I think that many are just more sex negative than they wish to admit, at least for a male created character. If Quiet really existed in real life the grief she gets would be called out as "slut shaming", but a man created her, so every move is wrong now. More telling is the reasons, which, are BS, but in a series where nanomachines solve everything I'll give it a pass. She has what could be defined as a medical condition that would make her more comfortable dressed as she is, and we still say variations of "can't you cover up a bit."

Makes me anxious for when the nudist community wants representation in gaming. That'll be fun.
Eh, people still think Bayonetta was created by a dude, despite all evidence pointing to a woman that looks quite similar to her and still consider her to be a victim of "must be sexy or else dudes won't play her, and even then, they're only in it to look at her assets and plot".

I will agree that people look at the surface details of games waaaaay too much anymore(and probably regard some of the things in them much deeper than they should be doing), and for all the moaning about the PCMR only caring about graphics, there's a pretty good portion of the people saying those things that turn around and complain about what characters look like instead of talking about the shortcomings of the games that aren't related to art or geometry. Just a little bit of funny from where I'm sitting(on a throne of Nvidia Titans with titanium pc towers and ruby-encrusted peripherals as any self-respecting member of the master race does).

EternallyBored said:
Dude....*clears throat*...you're asking for realism and how science works. IN A MGS GAME. It's 50's sci-fi logic at the best of times mixed with alot of idealism when it comes to military things. C'mon, you've gotta know that. And the messages in it have very little to do with what's going on on-screen most of the time. Alot of stuff about family and culture not being forgotten by the next generation, passing on and what it will mean to each person that you've affected by simply being alive around them in addition to dying alone not being ideal for anyone. And then there's the bucketload of hope that's dumped on top of a bunch of grimness. Kojima uses alot of very common themes throughout the MGS franchise with a batshit insane setup. Analyzing or looking for/expecting deeper meanings is sorta pointless, because the guy spends the last ten minutes(at least) of each game hammering the points home with all the subtlety of a terrified elephant(which I've always thought has been sorta comical considering they're stealth games).

In short, turn your brain off and enjoy the ride, the only important parts are the endings with the exception of MGS3 honestly is how I've always viewed them.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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AgentCooper said:
So because you did not like it should not be considered cannon? I gave you a very reasonable explanation. Considering the official time line still cites the original MG timelines as cannon to the MGS lore. The only games not considered to be cannon by fans are Ghost Babel and Portable Ops.
No, they shouldn't be canon because that way they could make some new games and try to make better sense of the story and the characters. There are things that they would have to keep as canon though, simply because they've been referenced in every game since MGS 1.

And no, you didn't give me a reasonable explanation at all. You said it yourself.
"BB somehow became corrupt".
That's the thing, isn't it? We didn't get to see how or why that happened.

But this topic is about how stupid Quiet's outfit is. Which I still don't care about to be honest. There are basically two types of people. Those who care about Quiet as a character more than her outfit and those who care about her outfit more than her as a character. Her default outfit is stupid, but I don't give a fuck what she wears as long as she's an awesome sniper with an interesting backstory.
 

EternallyBored

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Redryhno said:
Dude....*clears throat*...you're asking for realism and how science works. IN A MGS GAME. It's 50's sci-fi logic at the best of times mixed with alot of idealism when it comes to military things. C'mon, you've gotta know that. And the messages in it have very little to do with what's going on on-screen most of the time. Alot of stuff about family and culture not being forgotten by the next generation, passing on and what it will mean to each person that you've affected by simply being alive around them in addition to dying alone not being ideal for anyone. And then there's the bucketload of hope that's dumped on top of a bunch of grimness. Kojima uses alot of very common themes throughout the MGS franchise with a batshit insane setup. Analyzing or looking for/expecting deeper meanings is sorta pointless, because the guy spends the last ten minutes(at least) of each game hammering the points home with all the subtlety of a terrified elephant(which I've always thought has been sorta comical considering they're stealth games).

In short, turn your brain off and enjoy the ride, the only important parts are the endings with the exception of MGS3 honestly is how I've always viewed them.
It's not the crazy elements I have a problem with, it's the poor characterization and Kojima's ADHD that seems to prevent him from writing a coherent narrative when he's not plot dumping everything in codec calls and wasting valuable plot time on some tangent like a 9 year old who's had his first energy drink.

It's niggling things that just flatout require the characters to be functionally retarded like Quiet not being able to write, or parasites that demolish much of the technology of any of the later games. Especially when he's proven he can write a prequel in MGS 3 that doesn't mulch the tech levels and canon of the proceeding games in the timeline.

I like MGS, I'm fine with the crazy shit, vocal cord parasites? sure, why not? photosynthetic skin? alright, not any crazier than nanomachines, Quiet's outfit still looks dumb though. Giant flaming whales? strange, but sure, I bought mooing metal gears, give me a giant flaming moby dick too. Giant metal gear stolen by the president of the U.S.? Ok, I think we can all agree MGS 2 was a bit bonkers even for MGS, but it still mostly worked.

Through all that though, the plot still needs to at least flow together into a cohesive narrative, and MGS V failed to do that, the characters weren't stupid for believable reasons or because it made sense, the characters acted like idiots because the bare bones plot wouldn't work otherwise. Kojima can use all the strange stuff he wants, but that doesn't excuse a poor plot that has major dramatic moments that only happen because the bikini clad sniper can't be arsed to pick up a pen.
 

AgentCooper

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Adam Jensen said:
AgentCooper said:
So because you did not like it should not be considered cannon? I gave you a very reasonable explanation. Considering the official time line still cites the original MG timelines as cannon to the MGS lore. The only games not considered to be cannon by fans are Ghost Babel and Portable Ops.
No, they shouldn't be canon because that way they could make some new games and try to make better sense of the story and the characters. There are things that they would have to keep as canon though, simply because they've been referenced in every game since MGS 1.

And no, you didn't give me a reasonable explanation at all. You said it yourself.
"BB somehow became corrupt".
That's the thing, isn't it? We didn't get to see how or why that happened.

But this topic is about how stupid Quiet's outfit is. Which I still don't care about to be honest. There are basically two types of people. Those who care about Quiet as a character more than her outfit and those who care about her outfit more than her as a character. Her default outfit is stupid, but I don't give a fuck what she wears as long as she's an awesome sniper with an interesting backstory.
There is no point in new Metal Gear games. Kojima is gone when his contract is over with in December and Konami has made it clear. All they want to do is Pachinko machines and mobile games.
Big boss never lived up to the legend that preceded him. He was a fucking coward. When it was a double who was doing everything to live up the big boss title. Did you forget Miller only found out later on about the double? Big Boss fucked over Miller by lying to him. He did all this to get heat off himself and in the end it was not worth it. Big Boss became a villain out of necessity and not out of spite. He had a perfect vision of the world as one united being. Him simply being a child killing dick hole was not true.
 

vallorn

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The main problem with MSG V is that the entire third chapter of the game had to be cut (there are mostly rendered cutscenes and voice acting for it in the game files) thanks to Konami and so all character, not just Quiet, didn't get the full game to have their character's arcs in. This means that flaws in the characters just become so much more apparent than they would otherwise be.

FYI, the third chapter partly got worked into the Tapes but it's not really the same.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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AgentCooper said:
Big boss never lived up to the legend that preceded him. He was a fucking coward. When it was a double who was doing everything to live up the big boss title. Did you forget Miller only found out later on about the double? Big Boss fucked over Miller by lying to him. He did all this to get heat off himself and in the end it was not worth it. Big Boss became a villain out of necessity and not out of spite. He had a perfect vision of the world as one united being. Him simply being a child killing dick hole was not true.
You can't say that he was a coward based on that. We don't have a clue
what the real Big Boss was doing and where he was doing it.
Besides. The entire ending screams of sequel. Kojima probably had other plans.
This is not complicated at all. It's just bad storytelling. Kojima fucked up his own convoluted story to such an extent that only more Metal Gear games could try to fix it. Because in the current state MGS V makes no sense at all because of that ending.

I can't believe that someone on Kotaku managed to sum it up nicely: http://kotaku.com/why-metal-gear-solid-vs-ending-was-so-disappointing-1729833383
 

Ricardo Lima

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Because creating controversy and pandering to social justice ideologues is all the rage these days. People need to worry more about real world issues instead of how dressed the pixels in a game.

Moral panic and controversy sells thats all some people care about..
 

CaptainMarvelous

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... I mean, not to discredit that the Quiet is over-sexualised but this is the same series where this

is something that happens in the game.

MGS1 was kinda coy with Sniper Wolf and the 'find Meryl' thing, MGS2 had... well, that above screenshot, MGS3 had Eva who used her sexiness as a weapon (counterpoint to the Boss who used her weapon as a weapon weapon, jesus christ, why didn't they clone HER!?) and MGS4 had that weird Beauty and the Beast unit. But, more importantly, Meryl 'The Gunshow' Silverburgh (not sure what gym she hit between MGS1 and 4 but gahd DAMN did she get jacked).

I mean... the games have always had a kinda weird relationship with sex appeal. Not least that we tend to get a fair deal of dude stuff to counterweight. Admittedly, Quiet is taking the next gen graphics cake and the reasoning being Babelfish Las Plagas is a little weird but I mean... I don't think it's controversial?
 

AgentCooper

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Adam Jensen said:
AgentCooper said:
Big boss never lived up to the legend that preceded him. He was a fucking coward. When it was a double who was doing everything to live up the big boss title. Did you forget Miller only found out later on about the double? Big Boss fucked over Miller by lying to him. He did all this to get heat off himself and in the end it was not worth it. Big Boss became a villain out of necessity and not out of spite. He had a perfect vision of the world as one united being. Him simply being a child killing dick hole was not true.
You can't say that he was a coward based on that. We don't have a clue
what the real Big Boss was doing and where he was doing it.
This is not complicated at all. It's just bad storytelling. Kojima fucked up his own convoluted story to such an extent that only more Metal Gear games could try to fix it. Because in the current state MGS V makes no sense at all because of that ending.

I can't believe that someone on Kotaku managed to sum it up nicely: http://kotaku.com/why-metal-gear-solid-vs-ending-was-so-disappointing-1729833383
The real Big Boss was hiding in Africa during the events of V. It's assumed he was training a very young Solid Snake at this time.

I tell you what. Let's leave it at that. I'm done explaining and done trying to defend.
 

EternallyBored

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vallorn said:
The main problem with MSG V is that the entire third chapter of the game had to be cut (there are mostly rendered cutscenes and voice acting for it in the game files) thanks to Konami and so all character, not just Quiet, didn't get the full game to have their character's arcs in. This means that flaws in the characters just become so much more apparent than they would otherwise be.

FYI, the third chapter partly got worked into the Tapes but it's not really the same.
Eh, Konami and Kojima are both at fault for this, Konami for not keeping track of Kojima's progress and setting milestones based on a timetable, and Kojima for blowing out the budget and being unable to keep to a schedule thus delaying the game more than once, a director's responsibility is to work within the monetary and time constraints given to him, we cannot reasonably expect a publisher to afford a developer as much time and money as they want for as long as they want.

This was a game in development for over 5 years, and is one of the most expensive games ever developed in Japan, I dislike a lot of the crap Konami has done recently, but it looks like in this case Kojima was wasting a lot of the company's time and money, this wasn't some EA Dragon Age 2 deal where the company gives the developer a year to develop a game, konami gave Kojima 5 years or more and almost $100 million dollars, that he couldn't finish all three chapters in that time says more about him than it does Konami.

Still, screw Konami for what they've done to Silent hill and Castlevania, and what they are inevitably going to do to MGS now that Kojima is gone.
 

BarkBarker

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The cowardice of not just owning up you wanted to ogle some tits and ass is a thing, no problem with that it's trying to act like you aren't that bugs me.

Oh and the fact that its a very lazy way to show off her better features when well dressed can be much sexier than barely dressed. Sexiness as a component is fine, she is in fact a great character....until the camera gets a hold of her then we get slow zooms at her ass and it feels like you are devaluing a good character we came to love.
 

Kingjackl

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My thoughts on this issue would basically just be paraphrasing Jim Sterling, so I won't bother. However, i will say to the people saying "oh, why is it such a big deal?"...come on guys. You know why people are making a big deal about this. You have to take one look at her to know exactly what the problem is, and it's not a new problem. The reason it's being talked about is that the game is the latest example in a long line of games objectifying women. There's no need to feign ignorance just because it isn't negatively affecting you.

Also, with regard to the in-game explanation...ditch the stockings, maybe put on some comfortable shorts, swap out the ridiculous micro-bikini top for a sports bra. If I were a sniper who for some stupid reason had to live my life half naked, that's how I'd dress. When the excuse doesn't even justify the outfit, that's when it gives the game away.