Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

Dragonbums

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Samtemdo8 said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Because she's an even more blatant source of fanservice in a world that isn't strictly devised for fanservice.
Who the fuck wears a bikini top to battle?
And EVA was not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XcRtn8_cFA

And who exposes their clevage during a Sniper duel?

https://youtu.be/rr7YPzuPLas?t=231
To be fair in that respect no armor in the world is going to save your ass from a headshot. But I also haven't played any of the MGS games so I don't really know if there is greater context to this.
 

Skops

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I couldn't care less. There really is more important things to concern yourself with than a character's wardrobe, or lack there of. Why not just focus on something you can change?
 

Dragonbums

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inu-kun said:
Might be off-topic, but I've been a week ago to a con, and it had some Mass Effect actors and for some reason they did a shitty snide remark at MGS5's Quiet while saying how Jack is better (because they live in a world that Mass Effect has better writing and characters than a Kojima game), and people cheered, isn't Jack just as bad character for wearing what amounts for a belt for no reason?
Well for one when the camera focuses on Jack it never tried to horribly objectify her because of it.
This is also not to mention that her reason for her attire is 500X more sensible than Quiet's.

Jack's whole life basically sums up being in prison. She's predominately topless because she wants to show off her tattoos that hold various meanings to her. In the concept art book they talked about how the tattoos on her body represented her 'Sisters' (who apparently died/were killed.) How many guards she killed, how many times and what prisons she got sent to, etc. etc. So naturally someone like her would want to show that off as much as possible because that displays her history front and center (and possibly a warning to others not to fuck with her). And Mass Effect 3 especially got shat on A LOT for the noticeable upgarde in boob size on characters like Liara and Ashley, and how the latter character- a hardcore military person that practically does this as a military career was sporting hot lipstick, hair length that violates military standards and a dash of sexy space suit. It literally went against everything she was as a character.
Back to Jack-

Never when Jack was around did I ever feel like she was objectified or there for the sexual gratification of the viewer. Every single time Quiet comes in to the scene most people were just unnerved by her and didn't care for the jiggle boobs and ass.

On top of that Kojima made it out to be some Earth shattering reason for her attire that basically amounted to science bullshit. No one would care if she was blatant fanservice if they just came out and fucking said it.
 

Gengisgame

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BloatedGuppy said:
Gengisgame said:
A simple I personally don't like it for X reason should have sufficed.
A simple "I don't like it for X reasons" leads to accusations ranging from whining to sabotage to "creating a chilling environment that forces the creators into self-censorship".

Let's not pretend that everyone is comfortable with "a simple I don't like it". They're not. Some of them positively lose their shit upon discovering that someone dislikes something they like. This is particularly endemic in the gaming community, where the 7-10 scale has become gospel and anything under a 9 is considered shots fired.
Your right there are many people who can't handle criticism but let's not pretend that there is not a horrible side to what many people call "criticism" especially in this instance here.

First off there is criticism that comes off as childish the "I think this game is a big pile of **** and don't know how anyone could like it" and that's at best.

Then in this instance there are people who say the game is inherently wrong for society, that's not criticism, that is moral policing and few of these people actually believe that, it's just a horrible way to make sure what they don't like isn't made by trying to make it shameful.
 

Gengisgame

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MarsAtlas said:
Gengisgame said:
No, we shouldn't need to care about what others think when we buy entertainment products for ourselves, if someone thinks we should then they are genuinely entitled.
Which is why people who are upset that other people have grievances with Quiet should stop whining, correct?
Don't be a hypocrite, I was calling on you on saying that someone should be forced to acknowledge your grievances when making purchasing decisions, they don't, I don't feel I need to read the rest.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Gengisgame said:
Your right there are many people who can't handle criticism but let's not pretend that there is not a horrible side to what many people call "criticism" especially in this instance here.

First off there is criticism that comes off as childish the "I think this game is a big pile of **** and don't know how anyone could like it" and that's at best.

Then in this instance there are people who say the game is inherently wrong for society, that's not criticism, that is moral policing and few of these people actually believe that, it's just a horrible way to make sure what they don't like isn't made by trying to make it shameful.
Is there anybody here, in this thread, making this claim?

Seriously, I'd like to know. Mostly so I can point and laugh.
 

Fallow

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erttheking said:
Fallow said:
And you're going to have to point out how that transitions into you not being allowed to like women at all.
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to like women, just not for the qualities I mentioned earlier. I'm really trying to argue in good faith, thus it seems uncalled for when you go for a semantic ambiguity here.

Also please quote where it was said that liking Quiet was immature and not just that the design was immature.
Since Quiet doesn't exist outside of 1's and 0's, I find it difficult to separate Quiet from the design of Quiet. It's not as if it/she has autonomous will.

Heh, this could actually go into a Frankenfurt kind of thing.

Also I don't know what you're getting on Mars for. This is a video game forum. We talk about video games. The hell is wrong with having your arguments being in depth?
W00t? Why would you assume I was 'getting on' Mars? It was actually because I've been taking things too seriously myself from time to time (over in GID mostly) and it's a frustrating experience that leads to nothing good. For me, taking some time off helps alleviate that, and I figured it might help Mars too.
 

Erttheking

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Fallow said:
...I...know. I wasn't saying that you couldn't like women. No one is. I'm just asking how the hell criticizing Quiet's design means that people are against liking women. It's a bit of a leap.

That doesn't answer my question. Criticizing something and criticizing someone's opinion on something are two different things. If I say Twilight is stupid I am not saying that everyone who liked Twilight is stupid. People aren't criticizing your opinion of Quiet. They're just criticizing her.

I appreciate that, but I don't think that was the case with her.
 

Fallow

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MarsAtlas said:
Fallow said:
MarsAtlas said:
I think you're reading too much into it. I make no claims that everyone must or should like it. I merely state that I like it.
And then you implied that anybody who objects to it objects to it on the basis that its sexuality as opposed to the possibility that they object to it because its stupid.
Ahh, I think I see the problem. You read it as if that is the only reason one might disagree. That is not what I wrote, but now that you point it out, I can see how it might be interpreted that way. It was intended as a tangential question, which holds significant merit, but not as an absolute causal reason.


You've said the same in the past, calling people who object to blatant fanservice as "puritanical", ignoring the possibility that maybe somebody running around the battlefield in a chainmail bikini might be bothersome to them because it looks stupid.
This is very unlikely to be true as I've never been fond of that word and rarely join discussions about "fanservice". It does however explain why you started off with such zeal. I was kinda hoping we could keep the politics separate.

Your words;

"I simply like hot and sexy women, and I do not need any justification for it. I don't understand why that's something to be ashamed of these days (or hide/rationalize away)."

You wouldn't say it if you didn't mean something.
Indeed I wouldn't say something if I didn't mean something. But that does not mean that whatever you choose to interpret it as is correct.


Wow, its almost like people around here like videogames. What a radical notion, that can't possibly be! People on a forum for videogames like to talk about videogames???
I think I explained that in response to @erttheking . It's also worth noting that we aren't arguing a videogame so much as a single facet of a videogame.
 

Zenn3k

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Samtemdo8 said:
I mean seriously whats the big deal, ooh she wheres a bikini into battle and poses all sexually. Coming from the MGS series which already gave us plenty of sexually arousing ladies in the form of Sniper Wolf and her exposed clevage, EVA with her tight Jumpsuit and black bra (and at times in her whole bikni), and do I need to remind you of the Beauty and the Beast unit from MGS 4?

So whats makes Quiet so special?

Personally I blame the internet of today (youtube,ease of access, and faster speeds) because appearently gaming back in the 2000s are completely unknown and forgotten in todays internet.
Simple - Feminist culture has taken over the internet, its in full force on this site, reddit, hell even Facebook (women in front or its sexist!). If the feminist mother brain gets upset, we're all suppose to say sorry for Triggering them and we'll try to not piss them off in the future.

Hell, the feminist victim narrative is so damn strong, I full suspect to get a temp ban for just pointing it out, buts that okay, I only show up here like once every 6 months now anyway.
 

Zenn3k

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RJ 17 said:
-MGS 3 gave us this lovely little minx:

Most fans of the series - at least from what I gather - hail MGS 3 as being the best of the series, yet it contains a female protagonist who's constantly walking around with her tits out. She unzips her jumpsuit for no reason other than showing off her body. On top of all this she practically throws herself at Snake on a number of occasions.

She was a spy, she undressed and threw herself at Snake because she was purposefully trying to seduce him to gain secrets. If you beat the game there is a scene where she kinda sorta "hooks up" with snake, but she drugs him and leaves him there and she escapes. Eva was a very complicated character who was doing what she was doing for her own reasons, not just as "fan service". So it was hardly "No reason".

A female spy using sex to get to her objective is pulled STRAIGHT out of James Bond.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Zenn3k said:
RJ 17 said:
MarsAtlas said:
Tonal Cohesion Snip.
-MGS 3 gave us this lovely little minx:

Most fans of the series - at least from what I gather - hail MGS 3 as being the best of the series, yet it contains a female protagonist who's constantly walking around with her tits out. She unzips her jumpsuit for no reason other than showing off her body. On top of all this she practically throws herself at Snake on a number of occasions.

She was a spy, she undressed and threw herself at Snake because she was purposefully trying to seduce him to gain secrets. If you beat the game there is a scene where she kinda sorta "hooks up" with snake, but she drugs him and leaves him there and she escapes. Eva was a very complicated character who was doing what she was doing for her own reasons, not just as "fan service". So it was hardly "No reason".

A female spy using sex to get to her objective is pulled STRAIGHT out of James Bond.
I'm pretty sure a Femme Fatale spy like EVA and someone like Quiet are still equal in the eyes of femenists.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Samtemdo8 said:
I'm pretty sure a Femme Fatale spy like EVA and someone like Quiet are still equal in the eyes of femenists.
If you were paying attention to the thread, you'd see that's not the case.
 

EternallyBored

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Zenn3k said:
Simple - Feminist culture has taken over the internet, its in full force on this site, reddit, hell even Facebook (women in front or its sexist!). If the feminist mother brain gets upset, we're all suppose to say sorry for Triggering them and we'll try to not piss them off in the future.

Hell, the feminist victim narrative is so damn strong, I full suspect to get a temp ban for just pointing it out, buts that okay, I only show up here like once every 6 months now anyway.
Got 20 bucks that says you don't even get a warning, you have to make insults more directed at other posters here to break the rules. Honestly, 99% of the time when I see someone post here, "bet I get a ban/warning for daring to state my opinion!" it isn't even close to actually breaking any rules and never actually results in any mod action. How do people develop such a warped sense of the rules? There are far more inflammatory posts in this very thread than this one you apparently think you'll get a temp ban for.

Samtemdo8 said:
I'm pretty sure a Femme Fatale spy like EVA and someone like Quiet are still equal in the eyes of femenists.
Have you even read this thread? there are plenty of the usual suspects complaining about Quiet and defending Eva, they aren't even close to equal in the eyes of the feminists here in this topic. There's probably some out there, probably on that dastardly Tumblr or something, that hate both, but they aren't really here right now, in this thread, so why try to paint them as some sort of ubiquitous group when it is absurdly easy to point out how wrong that is in this very same topic.
 

DoPo

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EternallyBored said:
Honestly, 99% of the time when I see someone post here, "bet I get a ban/warning for daring to state my opinion!" it isn't even close to actually breaking any rules and never actually results in any mod action. How do people develop such a warped sense of the rules?
My favourite is when people think that actually merely using the word "adblock" gets you banned and then they go and "taunt the mods" saying something along the lines of "Yeah, ban me - adblock" as if the mods are some internet version of Beetlejuice or something.

[small]User received a warning for this post. only not really but I thought it would be funny to add this[/small]
 

Erttheking

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DoPo said:
EternallyBored said:
Honestly, 99% of the time when I see someone post here, "bet I get a ban/warning for daring to state my opinion!" it isn't even close to actually breaking any rules and never actually results in any mod action. How do people develop such a warped sense of the rules?
My favourite is when people think that actually merely using the word "adblock" gets you banned and then they go and "taunt the mods" saying something along the lines of "Yeah, ban me - adblock" as if the mods are some internet version of Beetlejuice or something.

[small]User received a warning for this post. only not really but I thought it would be funny to add this[/small]
Something that tends to happen a lot is that people overstate the influence of people they dislike. Mainly because the bigger more influential side is usually seen as being the bad guy in society. As such, people tend to assume they're the good guy, so they must be the underdog.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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altnameJag said:
Samtemdo8 said:
I'm pretty sure a Femme Fatale spy like EVA and someone like Quiet are still equal in the eyes of femenists.
If you were paying attention to the thread, you'd see that's not the case.
Did you know there are sequences in MGS3 with EVA where pressing the highlighted "R1" button in the cutscenes with EVA you see through the eyes of Snake that he is staring at EVA's Clevage and Bikini Ass.

Was that necessary for the game? Why else did Hideo Kojima added those options?

As to what you mean yes I get the point of EVA she uses sex to get what she wants but I assume that obviously thats something Femenist would still dislike as some male fantasy of a female spy.

And yes I did not read this whole thread because well I am not one of those people that reads 14 pages worth of walls of text in a thread forum.

And I established that I personally don't care that Quiet is dressed the way she is and I accept her as Fanservice.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Samtemdo8 said:
Did you know there are sequences in MGS3 with EVA where pressing the highlighted "R1" button in the cutscenes with EVA you see through the eyes of Snake that he is staring at EVA's Clevage and Bikini Ass.
Yep.
Samtemdo8 said:
Was that necessary for the game? Why else did Hideo Kojima added those options?
Dunno

Samtemdo8 said:
As to what you mean yes I get the point of EVA she uses sex to get what she wants but I assume that obviously thats something Femenist would still dislike as some male fantasy of a female spy.
Well, you know what they say when you assume.

Samtemdo8 said:
And yes I did not read this whole thread because well I am not one of those people that reads 14 pages worth of walls of text in a thread forum.
That would explain why your assumptions are wrong.
Samtemdo8 said:
And I established that I personally don't care that Quiet is dressed the way she is and I accept her as Fanservice.
Okay.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Samtemdo8 said:
altnameJag said:
Samtemdo8 said:
I'm pretty sure a Femme Fatale spy like EVA and someone like Quiet are still equal in the eyes of femenists.
If you were paying attention to the thread, you'd see that's not the case.
Did you know there are sequences in MGS3 with EVA where pressing the highlighted "R1" button in the cutscenes with EVA you see through the eyes of Snake that he is staring at EVA's Clevage and Bikini Ass.

Was that necessary for the game? Why else did Hideo Kojima added those options?

As to what you mean yes I get the point of EVA she uses sex to get what she wants but I assume that obviously thats something Femenist would still dislike as some male fantasy of a female spy.

And yes I did not read this whole thread because well I am not one of those people that reads 14 pages worth of walls of text in a thread forum.

And I established that I personally don't care that Quiet is dressed the way she is and I accept her as Fanservice.
I think the button is a more classical use the the male gaze. It's there to inform us that well EVA is going after snake, snake is failing for it.

People wrongly assume that the issue is people don't want sexy in games, but it's more along the lines of people want better sexy. It's gets handled so poorly with games. Heck here is a odd detail about EVA that makes her stand out. Her breast move naturally in that scene.* It's kind of a notable thing given how rare that is in games.

*Though latter we find out that her breasts aren't natural so um. Step back I guess