Why are so many people here angry?

[Mister K]

I am probably asking the eternal question: Why are people angry on the Internet? Specifically, this site.

Some say that it's anonymity that is causing this, the lack of identification of a person. However, there is Facebook, where majority of people have their faces as avatars and are using their actual names, yet there are many posts which are ridiculously impolite. And then there is Reddit, where people use nicknames and don't have any visual connection to their person via avatar, yet so far, after few months of being a member of Reddit, I am yet to read something purposfully hurtful even on biggest subreddits.

Some say that it can be because of lack of control, but mods here seem to be incredibly active.

I am at loss.

I never was the most active forum user, always more of a lurker that ocasionally types something, but today I am even less willing to type anything, to communicate with people here. No matter the thread, if it is big enough, it always gets derailed by people being disrespectful towards others, or people who mistakenly though that someone tried to offend them and lauch a counter attack, or by those who simply can't stop arguing because they always must be "winners" of a discussion, or, the most common thing I see, by -isms. And it is always so... Wrathful.

It wasn't always like this. What has happened?

I just want to return to the days of huge threads, where most people were polite, on topic and more than anything willing to help and have fun.

 

[SolidState]

It's because too many people here have turned into an art form the ability of acting extremely passive-aggressively and implying all kinds of insults without actually stating them directly. They are able to dance perfectly along the letter of the rules, while trampling all over the spirit of the rules.
Such people like to push the buttons of others and are (somehow) able to go all the way up to the arbitrary moderation line without actually crossing it, and they hope the person they're riling up crosses that line in their reply and gets moderated for it, at which point the original troublemaker sits back in their echo-chamber usergroup and has a good old laugh.

Basically, it's just a big game.

EDIT: This came across a lot more bitter than I intended. But let me just say that I'm of the opinion that passive-aggressive insults and rudeness are far MORE annoying than actual direct insults. And the way the rules here are written has simply fostered a rather sizable group of extremely insufferable passive-aggressive people.
I'm sure the rules meant well, once upon a time, but now they're to the detriment of the forum, sadly.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, people have always bickered here. At least as much as the moderation allows.

Many pixels have been spilled across a variety of battlegrounds. PC vs consoles, fake geek girls, the ME3 ending, Anita Sarkeesian. The list goes on.

If it has become nastier of late (and I'm not certain it has, memory can be a funny thing) then I'd put it down to two things.

a) Gamergate caused a very clear rift. The differences were always there but GG made them clear and gave them names.

b) The drastic reduction in members and activity mean that a lot of the people here recognize each other and are at least somewhat familiar with each other's views and perspectives. You see a thread by a regular and you can often take an immediate and accurate guess of what it's going to be about. That might sound like a good thing and in some ways it probably is, but it also means that people enter threads carrying baggage from previous discussions and arguments. Many discussions turn into running duels between old enemies.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

It wasn't always like this- It used to be much worse. Moving R&P out of Off-Topic helped, but it's definitely not gotten angrier in general. I do still see a lot of arguments, but it doesn't seem to get as personal as it used to, people tend not to straight-out insult eachother or do it in a passive-aggressive way. I actually see more people admitting they were wrong than I used to.

One of us is misremembering- I'm not sure I'm right (and I'm certainly not wading through years-old threads to check), but if I had to go out on a limb I'd say you've got a serious case of rose-tinted glasses going on.

 

[thesilentman]

Anonymity unfortunately breeds dickery no matter what happens. It's why I can never stay on a site and it's community for too long as at some point, I just get fed up with the bickering.

As for the Escapist, it's always been here. Nothing has changed.

 

[tippy2k2]

Maybe it's just my own confirmation bias here but I have found that if you stay out of the hot button topics, people are far nicer to each other. For whatever reason, when it comes to certain subjects (be that GamerGate, religion, politics, various "isms", etc.), people's brains short circuit and everyone lashes out at each other rather than talks.

It does happen once in a while outside of the hot topics but I have found that is usually an individual who is being stupidly aggressive (see "Zeel" from the Mass Effect 3 topic back in the day) rather than the topics themselves. Once you figure out who those people are, it's easy to sidestep.

Just do what I do and stay away from those threads (unless you just want something to read to give you a good laugh; just don't participate). Your internet life will be much happier that way.

 

[Barbas]

What I think tends to happen with questions like this is that a fair number of people won't answer because they don't want to be insulting, then you get people who use it as a reason to vent or take jabs at one another. The latter are what you should probably worry about and avoid engaging. I could list a whole load of reasons why I think the problem you're talking about exists, but then I realize that anyone it applies to probably won't care enough to change. On the other hand, it is relatively likely to cause argument.

I say you might as well just save some effort and do your own thing. Approach others with honest curiosity, try to see the good or the lesson in a situation and you'll find you tend to have a more happy and fulfilling life.

EDIT: I think 'are' should be the second word in your thread title there.

 

[Mister K]

One of us is misremembering- I'm not sure I'm right (and I'm certainly not wading through years-old threads to check), but if I had to go out on a limb I'd say you've got a serious case of rose-tinted glasses going on.

Heck, maybe you are right. Maybe after the events that shalt not be named I just saw the worst this site is capable of and started noticing things a bit better. Or maybe it is what SolidState said about passive-aggresive combat

It's because too many people here have turned into an art form the ability of acting extremely passive-aggressively and implying all kinds of insults without actually stating them directly. They are able to dance perfectly along the letter of the rules, while trampling all over the spirit of the rules.
Such people like to push the buttons of others and are (somehow) able to go all the way up to the arbitrary moderation line without actually crossing it, and they hope the person they're riling up crosses that line in their reply and gets moderated for it, at which point the original troublemaker sits back in their echo-chamber usergroup and has a good old laugh.

Basically, it's just a big game.

EDIT: This came across a lot more bitter than I intended. But let me just say that I'm of the opinion that passive-aggressive insults and rudeness are far MORE annoying than actual direct insults. And the way the rules here are written has simply fostered a rather sizable group of extremely insufferable passive-aggressive people.
I'm sure the rules meant well, once upon a time, but now they're to the detriment of the forum, sadly.

Oh, and

EDIT: I think 'are' should be the second word in your thread title there.

Damn it, I knew it was supposed to be here. I should've listened to my instinct. Now if only I could remember how edit thread names.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

As I've gotten older, I've grown less interested in having a debate with people on the internet. It just seems like a completely masturbatory exercise which really doesn't accomplish much of anything. Think about it, how many times has someone proving you wrong actually changed your world view or vice versa? Exactly. So we do see those posts where people go back and forth arguing about shit about GamerGate or the like. I just chalk it up that being a young person's game, they're idealist thinking if they just present the facts there shouldn't be a question... which is silly cause people don't work like that.

People have a capacity to change, don't get me wrong. But the amount of that change varies person to person, and it's very rare people can change significantly. It's a gift. Because it means not being blinded by one's ego. People worry too much about their image, or not being a hypocrite. That's not very wise.

I don't actually find anything to angry about the place though... but I tend to just look at it as a place where, I'll just through out my worthless 2 cents, see if it spikes a reaction. Usually it doesn't, so I take it as a good sign. Occasionally I've made posts asking questions just to try to better wrap my head around people's world views, there is no right or wrong answer I say. If nothing else, I like to think that's healthy. If I can't hold the same view point, at least I can try to understand it.

The only thing I didn't like was a few months ago... Like sometimes I take on a very flippant tone when I talk about my personal philosophy because I don't want to come across like a smug liberal dickhead. I know that past paragraph, with me talking about viewpoints, I sound like a real hippy. It disgusts the lingering early 20 something Ayn Rand reading young man I once was. Anyway, another user took objection to it, tried telling me in an equally flippant way that I would condone basically someone getting assaulted. THAT rustled the jimmies. Ya know, don't tell me what I believe and furthermore don't place that that kind of label on me. That kinda neo nazi bullshit is disgusting. Just through them on the old ignore list, cause fuck it man. Not everyone is meant to get along. And that's okay, cause we live with these tools that allow us not to have to.

 

[Erttheking]

There aren't as many forum posters on this site as there used to be, and anger is pretty much the only thing that can keep a conversation going when there's this few of us.

I think Zhukov nailed the rest.

 

[IceForce]

Gamergate is a useful scapegoat in times like these.

But more to the point, I think Zhukov up there nailed it. Unpleasantries have been around here for donkeysyears.
ME3 ending threads, for instance, can get pretty heated (and still do, on the off-chance that we might get another one). And R&P can also get a bit testy around U.S. election times (which we are once again approaching).

 

[IceForce]

Damn it, I knew it was supposed to be here. I should've listened to my instinct. Now if only I could remember how edit thread names.

Edit any post of yours in this thread (it doesn't necessarily have to be the OP post, but it can be if you want), and you'll get the option to edit the thread title.

 

[Lightspeaker]

It's because too many people here have turned into an art form the ability of acting extremely passive-aggressively and implying all kinds of insults without actually stating them directly. They are able to dance perfectly along the letter of the rules, while trampling all over the spirit of the rules.
Such people like to push the buttons of others and are (somehow) able to go all the way up to the arbitrary moderation line without actually crossing it, and they hope the person they're riling up crosses that line in their reply and gets moderated for it, at which point the original troublemaker sits back in their echo-chamber usergroup and has a good old laugh.

Basically, it's just a big game.

Basically all of this, I've seen it from many people in many threads over the past couple of years. I've lurked on this site for quite a long time (longer than this account has existed) and it was a great news source and had some really interesting discussions to read. But over the years its become very notably more and more unpleasant.

A couple of days ago in another thread I noticed a quote by Barbas as follows:

And I still think that this is a good website with a good community, as both those things go.

And...well I actually wrote up a quite large PM (that I never sent in the end, it was kinda gloomy) in response to that; because its a sentiment I see being expressed here and there periodically as a kind of optimistic uplift and...well, as a casual user of these forums you literally can't get further from the truth as far as I'm concerned. This is a deeply, deeply unpleasant, angry and malicious place at times. There is a lot of genuine hate bubbling below the surface and people make a game of trying to bend the rules far enough in their attack on people to make them break it.

It happened to me just the other week. Someone was deliberately attacking me in such a way as I made clear that I found unacceptable. Because I wasn't as super-careful in the exact wording of my response as they had been attacking me, I'm the one that got infracted. Letter of the rules applies alone.


There can be interesting stuff on here. But the venom is extremely real. Better to just minimise your posting in my experience. One thing I've found to be quite therapeutic is to never, ever revisit a thread once you've read it and posted in it if its likely to be a contentious topic. Or at the very least never read responses to your own posts. Its frankly ridiculous that that appears to be the best way to enjoy this forum these days, but for some topics its the only thing that works.

 

[Mister K]

Damn it, I knew it was supposed to be here. I should've listened to my instinct. Now if only I could remember how edit thread names.

Edit any post of yours in this thread (it doesn't necessarily have to be the OP post, but it can be if you want), and you'll get the option to edit the thread title.

Spoiler

Thanks mate.

 

[Mister K]

One thing I've found to be quite therapeutic is to never, ever revisit a thread once you've read it and posted in it if its likely to be a contentious topic. Or at the very least never read responses to your own posts. Its frankly ridiculous that that appears to be the best way to enjoy this forum these days, but for some topics its the only thing that works.

Or do what I do and do NOT post anything in threads that you don't want to have flame wars in.

 

[DoPo]

And then there is Reddit, where people use nicknames and don't have any visual connection to their person via avatar, yet so far, after few months of being a member of Reddit, I am yet to read something purposfully hurtful even on biggest subreddits.

Really? I've not even used Reddit that much yet I've found plenty of such comments. Difference between there, here, and Facebook is that the "bad" comments get downvoted and hidden or even removed. In other words, they tend to be swept under the rug. Not that it's that that makes them invisible, mind you - just makes it harder to find them. Bigger subreddits would actually be better, since they would have more moderators combing and removing comments more effectively and more often.

That's not to say that only the "bad" comments are removed - I've seen plenty of good ones being downvoted into conforming with the more popular opinions. As much as the rules would try to discourage it, it still happens and at an alarming frequency. This somewhat contributes to the (seeming) friendliness on there - if you disagree with somebody regardless if they were well behaved or rude, you can just click the downvote button. Unpopular opinions regardless of the manner they were articulated would be suppressed instead of argued. And if people aren't arguing it "looks like" the place is friendlier. Yet, I believe that an angry silent mob is still an angry one, regardless of the lack of shouting.

And just to clarify - I'm just sharing observations, not really having a dig at Reddit. It's just another Internet community - it's pretty much inherent behaviour. Heck, the bigger the community, the worse it tends to be, only sometimes it's more visible than others.

 

[Mister K]

And then there is Reddit, where people use nicknames and don't have any visual connection to their person via avatar, yet so far, after few months of being a member of Reddit, I am yet to read something purposfully hurtful even on biggest subreddits.

Really? I've not even used Reddit that much yet I've found plenty of such comments. Difference between there, here, and Facebook is that the "bad" comments get downvoted and hidden or even removed. In other words, they tend to be swept under the rug. Not that it's that that makes them invisible, mind you - just makes it harder to find them. Bigger subreddits would actually be better, since they would have more moderators combing and removing comments more effectively and more often.

That's not to say that only the "bad" comments are removed - I've seen plenty of good ones being downvoted into conforming with the more popular opinions. As much as the rules would try to discourage it, it still happens and at an alarming frequency. This somewhat contributes to the (seeming) friendliness on there - if you disagree with somebody regardless if they were well behaved or rude, you can just click the downvote button. Unpopular opinions regardless of the manner they were articulated would be suppressed instead of argued. And if people aren't arguing it "looks like" the place is friendlier. Yet, I believe that an angry silent mob is still an angry one, regardless of the lack of shouting.

And just to clarify - I'm just sharing observations, not really having a dig at Reddit. It's just another Internet community - it's pretty much inherent behaviour. Heck, the bigger the community, the worse it tends to be, only sometimes it's more visible than others.

Well, I probably still hadn't encountered worse aspects of Reddit because I am a)still new there and b)I stick to specific subreddits that have great communities. Guess I'll continue NOT being part of larger subs, then.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Probably because of YO MAMA! Boom!

Sorry. I'll be serious. If I had to guess, it's probably because there is very little to be pleased about these days. Trump, Konami, Terrorism, Putin, God help me Melissa McCarthy!
I wouldn't say this site is the anti-Tumblr, but its close. George Carlin once said the difference between LA and New York was that people in LA will say "Have a nice day" and be lying through their teeth, whereas New Yorkers will tell you to go fuck yourself and mean it.
To me that's what this site is like. A big fuck you, but its honest and sincere. And that's refreshing. I enjoy it!

 

[Barbas]

And...well I actually wrote up a quite large PM (that I never sent in the end, it was kinda gloomy) in response to that; because its a sentiment I see being expressed here and there periodically as a kind of optimistic uplift and...well, as a casual user of these forums you literally can't get further from the truth as far as I'm concerned . . .

Well, you probably saw this coming from a mile away, but I still stand by that statement. The behaviour you've described there is true of parts of this site, but when I think about it, I realise it's also something true of nearly every other site I've visited that has a comments section or a forum of any kind. There's a been a middle ground between indulging that sort of behaviour and avoiding parts of the site like a plague. And if that last part of what you said was true, you simply wouldn't be here.

 

[Foolery]

It's because too many people here have turned into an art form the ability of acting extremely passive-aggressively and implying all kinds of insults without actually stating them directly. They are able to dance perfectly along the letter of the rules, while trampling all over the spirit of the rules.
Such people like to push the buttons of others and are (somehow) able to go all the way up to the arbitrary moderation line without actually crossing it, and they hope the person they're riling up crosses that line in their reply and gets moderated for it, at which point the original troublemaker sits back in their echo-chamber usergroup and has a good old laugh.

Basically, it's just a big game.

/thread. But seriously, thank you for that, it sums up the matter quite well.

A couple of days ago in another thread I noticed a quote by Barbas as follows:

And I still think that this is a good website with a good community, as both those things go.

And...well I actually wrote up a quite large PM (that I never sent in the end, it was kinda gloomy) in response to that; because its a sentiment I see being expressed here and there periodically as a kind of optimistic uplift and...well, as a casual user of these forums you literally can't get further from the truth as far as I'm concerned. This is a deeply, deeply unpleasant, angry and malicious place at times. There is a lot of genuine hate bubbling below the surface and people make a game of trying to bend the rules far enough in their attack on people to make them break it..

I guess as a mod, he has an obligation of sorts to look for the sunny side of the site. Personally, the most redeeming factor of the site is the usergroups, and that's where I generally post. It's just not worth my time to be in the forums, unless the threads are simply made for fun, and not trying to be controversial. Interestingly enough, (without naming names) I have seen of some the more inflammatory/infamous users be either banned or have just stopped posting.