Why Are The Generation 1 Fans the Biggest Complainers About Each New Pokemon Generation?

[Toxic Sniper]

You bring those up like they're bad pokemon. Lord knows why you would try to bring down the Ghastly line. It's a rare combination of English folklore and Japanese mythology. If you feel that Grimer's bad, then why would you try to defend the garbage-bag pokemon. These are also examples of things that work fine once, but start to feel a bit trite when they show up again and then yet again.

I wasn't bringing them up as examples of bad Pokemon, I was bringing up examples of pokemon not based on the natural world and are based on non-living objects. You said future generations have this trend, so I was just listing the many, many pokemon not based on animals, plants, or fungi in Generation 1. Ghastly is based on smog and ghosts, Grimer is based on sludge, Porygon is based on 3D modeling and artificial intelligence.

I don't understand why you assumed I was saying they were bad designs.

It's great that you like it, but I don't have any interest in debating the entirely subjective preferences of some random person on-line. I was simply elaborating on why Generation 1 people dislike the latter generation. What you like or not, matters little on the topic where someone's trying to understand why Generation 1 purists dislike the latter generations

If you're going to give reasons why you think Generation 1 purists dislike later generations, there's no reason why people can't argue with those reasons. I don't think Generation 1 purists actually dislike newer generations because they have less animalistic designs or more evolutions or less mythology. I think they dislike newer generations because of changing art style and a franchise that they simply grew out of.

There is no reason to get ticked off on people just because they want to talk about something.

 

[Tyrant_Valvatorez]

As much as everyone goes on about "Genwunners" what annoys me more is the blatant hypocrisy of the fanbase. Generation 3 fanboys (not fans) are currently the most obnoxious of the fanbase, rant about "nostalgia whores" and how much gens 1 and 2 actually suck- yet they are also screaming from the high heavens for a gen 3 remake and telling everyone how underrated gen 3 is and how it did not deserve the hate.

A little interesting fact gen 3 is 11 years old which means its old enough to have nostalgia goggles for, yet very few call the gen 3 fanboys out on "nostalgia whoring" themselves.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Playing since Gen1 and im still happy with it. The addition of new types, double fights, double types and the splitting of phys/special attack/defense kept improving the game steadily.

The games themselves are basically always the same, though i was really suprised by Black&Whites choice of topic: If you enslave pokemon and let them fight, aren't you the bad guy?

It's still one of the best competitive games though. Sadly they've no real interest in developping that part of the game further.

Edit: Also the people i know usualy say Gen2 had the best games. Gen 3 was really bad in my opinion though. 45% water pokemon, come on. Alot of legendaries, i give'em that, but still.

 

[Dragonbums]

As much as everyone goes on about "Genwunners" what annoys me more is the blatant hypocrisy of the fanbase. Generation 3 fanboys (not fans) are currently the most obnoxious of the fanbase, rant about "nostalgia whores" and how much gens 1 and 2 actually suck- yet they are also screaming from the high heavens for a gen 3 remake and telling everyone how underrated gen 3 is and how it did not deserve the hate.

A little interesting fact gen 3 is 11 years old which means its old enough to have nostalgia goggles for, yet very few call the gen 3 fanboys out on "nostalgia whoring" themselves.

I've started to notice that too.
Gen 3 came out a weird spot for many childhood fans. It was just between the first new generation of fans coming in, and some of the old ones leaving.

11 years old though?
Gosh, has it really been that long ago?

The hype now could be related to the fact that GameFreak hinted at doing a Ruby and Sapphire remake, and no news has surfaced about whether or not it's true.

 

[Ulkjen]

I played Pokemon back in generation 1. Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue. I played up until, i think, ruby? I didnt care much for any of the pokemon after generation 1 but there were a few i liked. Quilava, for example. Honestly though, for a while now, a lot of pokemon that have come out have felt less like wild animals with super powers and more like some kids dream. As a poster above me pointed out. Sentient lawn mowers? Etc. Unlike most gen 1 people I dont go around complaining often. I just state my opinion when its asked.

 

[Tyrant_Valvatorez]

As much as everyone goes on about "Genwunners" what annoys me more is the blatant hypocrisy of the fanbase. Generation 3 fanboys (not fans) are currently the most obnoxious of the fanbase, rant about "nostalgia whores" and how much gens 1 and 2 actually suck- yet they are also screaming from the high heavens for a gen 3 remake and telling everyone how underrated gen 3 is and how it did not deserve the hate.

A little interesting fact gen 3 is 11 years old which means its old enough to have nostalgia goggles for, yet very few call the gen 3 fanboys out on "nostalgia whoring" themselves.

I've started to notice that too.
Gen 3 came out a weird spot for many childhood fans. It was just between the first new generation of fans coming in, and some of the old ones leaving.

11 years old though?
Gosh, has it really been that long ago?

The hype now could be related to the fact that GameFreak hinted at doing a Ruby and Sapphire remake, and no news has surfaced about whether or not it's true.

Yeah it also is a combination of gen 3 changing things and rubbing people the wrong way that did not help, through lack of backwards compatibility and feeling completely disconnected from the previous games.

Yeah that is a scary thought.

Gamefreak have not really hinted much other than Junichi Masuda replying to fan requests by stating "ruby and sapphire have a special place for him and thanks" It has pretty much fans being looking too much into everything hence the whole "HOENN COMFIRMED !!!!" meme that was within the fanbase for a while.

 

[HellbirdIV]

I have found the visual design of Pokémon since Gen1 ugly and often uninspired - or sometimes too inspired, looking really bloody weird instead. Mind you, this is coming from someone who mainly played Gen2.

 

[danm36]

As someone who played Gen 1 but mainly watched the animé, I generally feel any Pokémon after Gen 1 - and definitely after Gen 2 - to be... too cutesy. It's hard to put it down but they just seemed...too smooth and bright(?). It's hard to pin it down, so lets give you a simile:

Gen 1 (and somewhat 2) is Final Fantasy X, as the further Gens are Final Fantasy X-2, same stuff but more...ehh...

 

[Agayek]

Well, that and leveling your Adamant natured Garchomp (or insert favorite Pokemon here) to completely obliterate, Exodia style, everyone that stands in your way.

This man speaks the troof. I have quite fond memories of my level 99 Charizard back in the original Red version that could solo entire teams.

I never got quite that much into the later games, having only played gen 3 and 5 since then, but I still rather enjoy the games.

 

[xPixelatedx]

In summary:

They grew up with it, therefore it is the best. And no, the pokemon aren't getting stupider in design. Generation 1 had a woman in black face as a pokemon.

...[HEADING=1]OR[/HEADING], like in most cases where someone defends newer things with the nostalgia defense, you could very well be completely, irreversibly, undeniably wrong. Let us look at a newer Pokemon next to an older one, but in reverse styles!

Disclaimer: I don't play pokemon. That and Animal Crossing just aren't my cups of tea with Nintendo stuff. I did however watch the cartoon when I was young, and when I try now, I can't even tell wtf I am looking at half the time. Even the people look ridiculous now, the PEOPLE! Just... what happened to this!? Attaching more crap and colors to things does not make better pokemon, and it certainly doesn't make better people either.

 

[TheEvilCheese]

Not having read the thread in full, I want to give my opinion.

The first generation games were a buggy, broken mess. Easily expolitable difficulty (leech seed + toxic counters for one, and hyperbeam was broken). The designs were reasonably good and Gengar is on my main competitive team to this day. It was original(ish) and people really latched on to the new idea.

Now we skip to generation 5, the game is harder and far better balanced, with more of a focus on building a team rather than leveling your starter to high heaven. The games are bigger with far greater variety and much expanded (improved) battle mechanics. The main downside to me is the inability to legitimately catch every pokemon within the main series (the only way to get mew? 100%-ing a mediocre spinoff game and transferring it, and the less said about manaphy the better)

Pokémon has evolved. It's fine if you don't like what it is, but don't pretend generation one was the pinnacle of everything because it was sorely lacking in many respects.

 

[Poetic Nova]

To be honest, the thing that bugs me the most in modern Pokemon games is that the design of new pokemons seems lazy. Gameplay hasn't improved much over the years either.

Could be because I grew over it I guess.

 

[Dragonbums]

In summary:

They grew up with it, therefore it is the best. And no, the pokemon aren't getting stupider in design. Generation 1 had a woman in black face as a pokemon.

...[HEADING=1]OR[/HEADING], like in most cases where someone defends newer things with the nostalgia defense, you could very well be completely, irreversibly, undeniably wrong. Let us look at a newer Pokemon next to an older one, but in reverse styles!

Disclaimer: I don't play pokemon. That and Animal Crossing just aren't my cups of tea with Nintendo stuff. I did however watch the cartoon when I was young, and when I try now, I can't even tell wtf I am looking at half the time. Even the people look ridiculous now, the PEOPLE! Just... what happened to this!? Attaching more crap and colors to things does not make better pokemon, and it certainly doesn't make better people either.

Yeah, I don't know what Sugimori is doing with his people either. Most normal looking human characters he's designed so far are the three rivals from B/W and it's sequels.
I guess something is going on in local Japan and he fears that his characters aren't standing out from the rest of the crowd?
Or like many artists he is going through some sort of phase.
I can't really tell. His blog is mainly tied to Gamefreak, so I can't really gauge what's going through his head.

EDIT: That Charizard looks pretty cool to be honest.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I guess something is going on in local Japan and he fears that his characters aren't standing out from the rest of the crowd?
Or like many artists he is going through some sort of phase.
I can't really tell. His blog is mainly tied to Gamefreak, so I can't really gauge what's going through his head.

I always thought Brock and Misty were very identifiable in a crowd, and they still looked like PEOPLE, not retarded parody villains from the Venture Bros. (lol). Hell, I think Ash was nicely designed before to. His new threads seem completely unnecessary, as if there just there to remind you it's a new generation of Pokemon.

EDIT: That Charizard looks pretty cool to be honest.

Ok, ...I will give you that. However I think it's safe to say that not every pokemon benefits from being a walking collage. As a good example, I actually like that Garchomp MUCH better then the real one. In fact it's soo much better, it's genuinely depressing to know what it really looks like.

 

[DeltaEdge]

As someone who started with first gen, my first Pokemon game being Yellow version, which I got in a yellow Gameboy bundle, considering that it was also my first game system and game that was truly mine, you'd think that my nostalgia goggles would be blinding the hell outta me. Surprisingly, they aren't. I actually feel that Pokemon has mostly gotten better with each new generation.

And you know what my favorite gen is, by far? Fifth. Fifth, in my opinion, curb-stomps all of the previous gens in looks(no shit I guess), game play, and story. And B2W2 are my favorite Pokemon entries of all time, and to think I wasn't even excited for them. I thought they'd just be another "meh" combo game like emerald/platinum/crystal, but nope, it totally blew me away, even more-so than B1W1 did, what with the sheer amount of Pokemon available to you from all of the gens which gave the game a lot more variety, the remix of the landscape, and the end-game content as well. For the first time, I felt legitimately tested and challenged by the Pokemon AI, what with the Pokemon World Championship, or whatever it was called, with the different tournaments, that became legitimately hard, that you couldn't just grind your way through, with AIs loaded with good move-sets, items, and the ability to actually use tactics to screw me over(i.e., using thunder if I use fly, using earthquake if I dig, exploiting weaknesses, having move-sets with destructive coverage, using berries to negate the charge up for sky-attack...etc)

To cut things short, I feel like they finally perfected Pokemon with B2W2, and will continue to be excited for the following gens. And as for peoples complaints about how all the new Pokemon look like shit/unrealistic/knock-offs/unimaginative, I just say to actually take a look at all of the Pokemon from first gen, as well as whichever gen you wish to compare it too. And maybe, bring a friend who hasn't played Pokemon(If you even know anyone like that) to check with you. I'm pretty sure that there are just as many odd-ball/unimaginative Pokemon in first gen, as any other gen, i.e Machoke and Sawk, both occurring naturally with human clothes, that are clearly humanoids based off of certain types of athletes, and are both equally able to be labeled as unimaginative if you wish to go that route.

Spoiler

Also, my preference in terms of gen is as follows: 5,4,2,1,3, with 5 being my favorite and 3 being my least favorite.

 

[Charli]

Gen 1 reporting in, No complains at the way the pokemon franchise is continuing. Nor have I vested interest in it anymore. I'm just happy on some level I can relate to those young-uns discovering it for the first time. I'm like some old sage now for this kind of crap,

Honestly with what they've got to work with there's really only so many ways you can evolve the concept. I view pokemon the same way I view WoW, something that is aging quite gracefully but it's hay-day has long past, but still manages to capture the imaginations of a new generation every time an addition is made.

The only way to do that is keep expanding and building on the foundations of the ideas that made the game to begin with and both are doing that and seeking to improve and milk their cash cow until retirement.

There are other childhood franchises who have tried to 'UP THE ANTE' and really just ruined the concept entirely, others have let it die and/or passed on the ideas to other developers (Who sadly more often than not do not do the source material justice). But out of all the ones out there... I Have the least complaints about pokemon.

 

[Dragonbums]

I guess something is going on in local Japan and he fears that his characters aren't standing out from the rest of the crowd?
Or like many artists he is going through some sort of phase.
I can't really tell. His blog is mainly tied to Gamefreak, so I can't really gauge what's going through his head.

I always thought Brock and Misty were very identifiable in a crowd, and they still looked like PEOPLE, not retarded parody villains from the Venture Bros. (lol). Hell, I think Ash was nicely designed before to. His new threads seem completely unnecessary, as if there just there to remind you it's a new generation of Pokemon.

EDIT: That Charizard looks pretty cool to be honest.

Ok, ...I will give you that. However I think it's safe to say that not every pokemon benefits from being a walking collage. As a good example, I actually like that Garchomp MUCH better then the real one. In fact it's soo much better, it's genuinely depressing to know what it really looks like.

Ah, I should elaborate, bye "crowd" I didn't mean in show, I meant like local anime wise. Misty, Ash, and Brock have the benefit of being cultural icons here and in Japan, however new characters he has to design them more outlandish to make them different between stuff from his show, and characters from other shows that might of copycat them because of their success.

Hmmm, not to fond of "Gen 1" Garchomp. I think it might just bee the head fins. I don't think the game cartridge at the time could implement them correctly. While this is beyond a simply collage change, I think if Garchomp was a concept around Gen1 and 2 they would replace those with real shark fins as opposed to a missile one. Heck, his head would probably change as well.

Which also brings me to another question, what if Ken's style was always like this in terms of Pokemon? What if he only drew them simple because he was limited by design due to the power of the cartridge?
I say this because according to one of the staff who worked on Generation 5- Sugimori was EXTREMELY picky with what he wanted the Pokemon to look like, and she herself designed at least 100 or so Pokemon and all but two got rejected from him.(The other had to go back to the drawing board.) Now that he is for the most part free of limitations perhaps this is what he envisioned Pokemon to look like? I can't say, his "blog" only really consists of work in Gamefreak. Nothing like sketches or any original ideas( wait...he MAKES Pokemon, they are original technically.)

According to sources like this one http://www.serebiiforums.com/archive/index.php/t-599447.html he designed the entire Hydreigon line, Heatmor (that anteater one) and other various Pokemon personally. Granted there are some confusions as to what happened with Vullaby and Mandibuzz. Some say James Turner did Vullaby, and Sugimori did Mandibuzz. Others say James did both birds, and Sugimori decided very late in development to add them in as a counterpart to Braviary. No one really knows.

BIG EDIT: http://www.pokewiki.de/Liste_der_Pok%C3%A9mon_nach_ihren_Designern

Have Google translate on hand since it's in German for some reason, this is the list of most of the Pokemon, and who the final designs were by.

 

[deadlinedance]

Gentlemen, I have found a person who has never played Pokemon before. She's part of my tabletop gaming group. My other players and I decided to try the Pokemon Tabletop Adventures just for fun, and she decided to jump in, with the disclaimer that she knows nothing about series. Didn't play any video games until grad school, never seen a Game Boy let alone Gen 1; hell, she was asking me to show her Super Mario World and other various NES/SNES games the other day, because she's never seen them.

As the Game Master, I asked her to provide a list of 10 Pokemon she might want to encounter on her adventure (just I thing I do so people are at least guaranteed SOME Pokemon they really want). I have still have her scribbled list of 19 Pokemon from the initial brainstorming session as she flipped through our massive Gen 1-5 Pokedex (my wife likes getting the books).

My friends, I tell you, all five generations are represented on that list. Based on nothing other than how they look, and occasional questions on what types they are or what they do.

Blitzle, Zubat, Oshawott, Shinx, Starly, Feebas, Trapinch, Suicune, Espeon, Meowth, Deerling, Nidoran, Oddish, Gastly, Horsea, Lapras, Larvitar, Sneasel.

Interestingly, now that I look at it a third time, Gen 1 is the most prevalent. So there may be some truth to it. But still, here is the opinion of the mythical person who has never played Pokemon in her life.

(You don't have to like the same Pokemon she does, the point is which gens she picked from. Also, of course I told her that she couldn't have Suicune.)