Why aren't there more games with female/gay/... characters in indie games?

Mar 9, 2010
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suasartes said:
The Unworthy Gentleman said:
Because nobody really wants it and nobody wants to do the work for something as pointless and shitty as catering to social justice warriors.
Oh honey, tell that to $560 billion. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_money]
Oh yeah, I forgot they spent all of that on making video games. My post meant that no normal person, straight or gay, needs a video game where the sexuality of the characters is an important aspect. Other than romances, sexuality is unimportant and everyone with half a brain realizes that.

But please, keep saying honey patronizingly as if you have a point.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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flatten_the_skyline said:
CrystalShadow said:
shadow_Fox81 said:
dis-empowerment as a mechanic is frightening for almost any developer (except Frictional)
That's a good point actually. Although I suspect the lack of games about certain groups of people often has a lot to do with who is making the games. (Although not impossible, it is quite challenging trying to design something from the perspective of an identity you do not share. - This is all the more true if that identity involves prejudices or points of view that are quite far removed from anything you've ever experienced personally.)

However, you bring up dis-empowerment... Which is actually a serious consideration; Disempowering the player of a game is very difficult to do well, because it takes away from the core of what a game is usually thought to be.
Yet... If approaching certain topics or groups as your subject, then that sense of disempowerment may well be very important to the narrative, if you want to do something other than make a character where their identity is basically a thin, nearly meaningless shell...
But how do you approach that in a useful way?
Tricky... Very, very tricky to get right.
I actually don't see the problem with disempowerment. Doesn't every shooter start with you being in a helpless situation (plane crash, lost squad, Black Mesa turned into a nightmare) where the challenge is to (re)gain whatever control over the situation you get? One memorable game scene is the beginning of HL2, where Gordon Freeman, saviour of the world, is being pushed around by bored, low life combine cops with tasers.

How about you attend a gay pride rally that is brutally ended by police forces (hey, you can even recycle your russian textures) or rednecks, and first you have to flee wearing pink and glitter, find a disguise, and then you have to regroup, always worrying whom you can tell the truth (add some paranoia here), have some investigative gameplay before some kind of endgame?
I certainly wasn't implying it can't be done. But it's difficult to get right. You make a good point about for instance, half-life 2, but when you look closely, while you can see that there are moments when the player can't really do much about what's going on in quite a few games, (although, the risk of this degenerating into little more than a cutscene is pretty high), you still have to contend with the overall game structure.

You may be relatively helpless at the beginning of half-life 2, but the game as a whole certainly isn't about having a lack of control, or power. If anything, it ultimately reflects a situation in which an individual for some reason has influence over a situation that is well out of proportion to who they actually are, or what would make sense under the circumstances.
While moments of near helplesness can happen, they are not a core part of what that experience is about.

That kind of hints at what I'm getting at... Because as soon as you shift away from that sense of helplessness, you completely shift the tone of the story. - Depending on what the story is ultimately about, that may not be a problem, but it still has the potential to make things very complicated.
 

Dr. Doomsduck

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Archer666 said:
You think people like this:


can make gay characters? The best written gay characters don't flaunt their sexuality and are just regular characters. While I haven't played New Vegas, apperently Arcade Gannon matches that definition. Just a regular dude who happens to like dudes.
Good lord. That physically hurt me to watch, so much secondhanded embarrasment...
 

flatten_the_skyline

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CrystalShadow said:
That kind of hints at what I'm getting at... Because as soon as you shift away from that sense of helplessness, you completely shift the tone of the story. - Depending on what the story is ultimately about, that may not be a problem, but it still has the potential to make things very complicated.
Well, I think playing with the shift of power is quite intriguing. I mean the shift between redneck county and New York city for example can make a huge difference in the life of your character, starting in some rural village with all the hardships of being a social outcast to make it to new york or San Francisco to have a lot more possibilities... Or to take the Shooter approach of linear empowerment (Crowbar->pistol->shotgun->Assault Rifle->Rocket Launcher->BFG9000) you could center a game about a homosexual adolescent who gains respect by his/her deeds, climbing the social ladder... And if you think in sci fi terms, there is no need for disempowerment at all. There have been times where homosexuality has been accepted, why shouldn't it be in some new civilization? Homophobia is neither natural nor necessary for a civilizations survival, even if 50% were homosexuals the rest could still procreate, so why not have some game where relationships are free, or where gender simply doesn't exist, where maybe even sexes don't exist?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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More than what? There's already more than AAA gaming. More than that? More than what they have? More than 9000?

KarmaTheAlligator said:
The thing is, I doubt there is much demand for it as OP suggests. While I'm fine with GLBT in general, I don't want it shoved down my throat, and playing a game with such a protagonist would do just that (unless there's a way to avoid such relationship, and then why bother making that kind of character to begin with?).
You heard it here first, queers, stop existing. You only serve to shove your existence down people's throats.

Man, could you imagine if the same was applied to heterosexuals in games? The RAAAAAAAEG
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Zachary Amaranth said:
KarmaTheAlligator said:
The thing is, I doubt there is much demand for it as OP suggests. While I'm fine with GLBT in general, I don't want it shoved down my throat, and playing a game with such a protagonist would do just that (unless there's a way to avoid such relationship, and then why bother making that kind of character to begin with?).
You heard it here first, queers, stop existing. You only serve to shove your existence down people's throats.

Man, could you imagine if the same was applied to heterosexuals in games? The RAAAAAAAEG
By that I meant I don't want to be reminded every two seconds that yes, your character (or even a person in real life) is gay or whatever. Establish it once, then move on. And, seriously, how many games even have an option for having a sexual preference?
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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KarmaTheAlligator said:
By that I meant I don't want to be reminded every two seconds that yes, your character (or even a person in real life) is gay or whatever. Establish it once, then move on.
And I'm sure you've expressed this about heterosexuality in gaming, too. I mean, otherwise, it would seem downright hypocritical and even (dare I say) bigoted.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Zachary Amaranth said:
KarmaTheAlligator said:
By that I meant I don't want to be reminded every two seconds that yes, your character (or even a person in real life) is gay or whatever. Establish it once, then move on.
And I'm sure you've expressed this about heterosexuality in gaming, too. I mean, otherwise, it would seem downright hypocritical and even (dare I say) bigoted.
Never had the opportunity before, but, yes, I'd say the same.
 

krazykidd

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Mar 22, 2008
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Because no one cares . What my video game protagonist decides to do in the comfort of their own home is none of my business . If they are gay , or a lesbians or trans or Asexual or hetero sexual doesn't matter , as long as i don't need to see it . When did this become an issue ? Why do we a) want to see people boning in a game and b) care who they bone ? This is silly and trivial . Games are for playing , not for making sexual fantasies , we have porn and rule 34 for that .
 

CBanana

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krazykidd said:
Because no one cares . What my video game protagonist decides to do in the comfort of their own home is none of my business . If they are gay , or a lesbians or trans or Asexual or hetero sexual doesn't matter , as long as i don't need to see it . When did this become an issue ? Why do we a) want to see people boning in a game and b) care who they bone ? This is silly and trivial . Games are for playing , not for making sexual fantasies , we have porn and rule 34 for that .
Yeah, let's ban heterosexuality and any romance from games! Just look at the filth!


Damn you 1983 and your penchant for thinking we needed to change video games by inserting this stuff in! You heard the last poster. Video games are for playing and need to go back to the way they were before 1983.
 

krazykidd

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Mar 22, 2008
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CBanana said:
krazykidd said:
Because no one cares . What my video game protagonist decides to do in the comfort of their own home is none of my business . If they are gay , or a lesbians or trans or Asexual or hetero sexual doesn't matter , as long as i don't need to see it . When did this become an issue ? Why do we a) want to see people boning in a game and b) care who they bone ? This is silly and trivial . Games are for playing , not for making sexual fantasies , we have porn and rule 34 for that .
Yeah, let's ban heterosexuality and any romance from games! Just look at the filth!


Damn you 1983 and your penchant for thinking we needed to change video games by inserting this stuff in! You heard the last poster. Video games are for playing and need to go back to the way they were before 1983.
I ..
Uhh...
Okay...

I never said ban romance . I was just wondering why we care about sexual orientation of the main characters . Does it really matter ? Would nathan drake ( uncharted )be cooler if he had a boyfriend? Would lighting( final fantasy 13 ) be more appealing if she had a penis ? Would morrigan ( Dragon age origins ) be a better character if she was a lesbian ?) .

It changes nothing . At all .

Now that i think about it . The 3 main chacters of the xbox360 lauch title enchsnted arms were an idiot , a transexual and a bi-curious genius.
 

CBanana

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Aug 10, 2010
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krazykidd said:
I ..
Uhh...
Okay...

I never said ban romance . I was just wondering why we care about sexual orientation of the main characters . Does it really matter ? Would nathan drake ( uncharted )be cooler if he had a boyfriend? Would lighting( final fantasy 13 ) be more appealing if she had a penis ? Would morrigan ( Dragon age origins ) be a better character if she was a lesbian ?) .

It changes nothing . At all .
Well you were talking about getting rid of heterosexuality in games, I just took it to its logical conclusion because I thought it was funny.

Also,

a) You can portray LGBT characters without showing explicit acts.

b) If main characters' identity doesn't matter, why do video games almost always default it to straight white male. Can't we mix it up more for variety or the sake of being inclusive? Why do people complain when it is suggested to move from this paradigm?
 

DementedSheep

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Jan 8, 2010
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Indie games with fem protagonist aren't uncommon.
Although most idie games I've played are more about gameplay and barely even have a protagonist or story. Hell often I don't even know their gender or if they are human let alone their sexual orientation. White male tends to be the default choice especially when most the people making it are white and male. Orientation probably won't even come up.
 

McKinsey

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Nov 14, 2011
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Fox12 said:
Uh, maybe because they're both unrepresented minorities in gaming?
So are wasps and eagles. You see, the existence of these minorities is dictated by totally different reasons. Try asking the question like this: Why aren't there more female/wasp protagonists? See how stupid this sounds? Please don't try to combine two or more unrelated problems into one, because this way you won't find the solution to any of them.

Fox12 said:
Ladies and gentlemen, we have an answer. Developers attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Case in point.
Dude, care to elaborate on this notion? I've been in the videogame business for a looong time, I'm pretty sure I've played and enjoyed more titles than you have. Get off your high horse, bro.
 

Lazy Kitty

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May 1, 2009
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Because the people who make those games are most likely neither of those and may not want to misrepresent them in their games.
 

Hagi

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CBanana said:
If main characters' identity doesn't matter, why do video games almost always default it to straight white male. Can't we mix it up more for variety or the sake of being inclusive? Why do people complain when it is suggested to move from this paradigm?
Whilst white male is certainly correct the vast majority of video game main characters don't really have any mentioned sexuality.

That particular problem hasn't got anything to do with video games. People default an unmentioned sexuality to straight. It's got nothing to do with the games, it's just the general view on sexuality.

Not to say I don't agree that we could most certainly use a hell lot more diversity in games, we most certainly do. But sexuality is a tricky one because of the aforementioned tendency most people have to default any character in any medium to straight until fully proven otherwise, subtle signs don't even count for most.
 

Durgiun

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Well why don't a bunch of lesbians get together and make a game with a lesbian protagonist?
 

KelDG

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xxy said:
As for the gay thing, how many games have you played where the protagonist has neither mentioned sexuality or been shown to be in a relationship, ill answer that quickly... Lots. Now why are you assuming these characters to be straight? Do gay people have to be obvious stereo types where there entire being revolves around their sexuality and not the job in hand?

Homophobe!

(Joke BTW ;))

Just pointing out that you may be assuming the sexuality of Gordon Freeman and many others, when we are given no indication of it. :p
 

DioWallachia

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Sep 9, 2011
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Nonsense. Even freeware has female protagonists. Like so:
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs37/f/2008/276/9/5/Noitu_Love_2_by_MrDream.jpg

http://lparchive.org/Iji/Images/8-Iji__s_Courage_by_Oneiric_Studios.jpg

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/358/6/2/hyper_princess_pitch_by_koloboko-d4k53sy.png

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/irisumoe_4251.jpg

Lurk MOAR.