Why Bronies (and Pretty Much Everyone) Should Hate the Brony Documentary

[Dangit2019]

snip

I'm not very talented in art at all...can you walk me through the differences in the pictures if you would be so kind?

 

[Dangit2019]

snip

I guess this is as good a place as any to link to a short interview with actor Tara Strong, the voice of Twilight Sparkle. Just came out a few days ago:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/15/tara-strong-my-little-pony-twilight-sparkle-friendship-is-magic_n_2697884.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Hint: She's got nothing but good things to say about her Bronies. I'm not one of them. Not sure why I feel compelled to say that, other than the fact that, while I don't watch the show (and therefore can't commiserate in your predicament), I can respect fandom.

Oh yeah, Tara loves the whole thing. She's just a really nice person, and she does great stuff for charity in the documentary.

Again, I like the people in this movie, I just got annoyed by bronies' representation as a whole.

 

[xPixelatedx]

snip

I'm not very talented in art at all...can you walk me through the differences in the pictures if you would be so kind?

The hint is in the file name: The Plot Thickens.

It's ok, I'll give you time, and if you still can't figure it out I'll tell you.

 

[Dangit2019]

snip

I'm not very talented in art at all...can you walk me through the differences in the pictures if you would be so kind?

The hint is in the file name: The Plot Thickens.

It's ok, I'll give you time, and if you still can't figure it out I'll tell you.

Can't...unsee...

EXTENDED TO AVOID MOD WRATH: Maybe in that one, it's just the angle. I would have to compare the 3 more generally in the show.

 

[Pinkamena]

This is pretty much going on daily and a huge part of the fandom, and I say this as someone who knows one of the people who ran bronycon. I don't care what the content of the show is, not showing such intricate parts of your fandom to increase positive opinion about it seems disingenuous and shady.

Speaking of MLP and sexualization, anyone remember a thread on here where someone was saying something about the show's artists making the show too sexy? That was a pretty funny thread, (I was laughing) but after telling a friend about it they sent me this...
The file is called: the plot thickens.png

Spoiler

Consider this image my new response to every MLP debate.

I don't think her ass has gotten any larger by the seasons, it just tend to change size from shot to shot.

 

[HardkorSB]

There is a difference between "showing both sides" and giving credibility and air time to stupid unfounded arguments and non sequiturs. Just like the hypothetical gay documentary, just like the evolution vs creationism debate in the south.

Any conservative argument against gays is most likely a stupid argument (based on culture, but culture changes). The same way as the old cavemen who hate how "bronies are killing the men of the world with girly-ness." The arguments have no objective basis other than the cultural demand at the time, even though past culture would call modern men girly because they don't like unicorns or like anything that isn't some form of red.

So why should any documentary give any air time to such subjective horse shit? Or even take it seriously? All that would do is send the message that "this argument may have legs" when in reality it doesn't.

Do we need to repeat ourselves that "god doesn't hate America, fags, and the blacks?" No, because the argument that god does hate all of us is so absurd it doesn't even need to have a rebuttal.

And as I said, there is nothing in the brony fandom that is any different from any other fandom. So there isn't anything to really cover. So they have no other avenue than to give the gist of what bronies are.

Even you failed to give an example of the "dark side of bronyism."

A documentary which only shows the positive aspects of a subject and doesn't acknowledge it's criticism is called propaganda.

 

[Piorn]

Just let them have their fun. If they need to justify their hobby to themselves, that's ok, you can't force someone to grow up.
I just try to stay out of this.

 

[xplosive59]

I always felt that the documentary was being made way to early, it started near the end of season 2 which is not really enough to get a clear impression on the longevity of the show. If the show had already been on for 7 or so seasons then it would make sense but right now we don't know if it will even last 5.

It is essentially pony propaganda (so to speak), Hasbro have allowed this because it is essentially a marketing tool and if they showed the bad side of the fandom there would of been consequences to face.

I feel bad for Lauren Faust as well who is essentially trying to forget the show and work on other projects but keeps getting clawed back in for this kind of shit, she even said earlier on Twitter "I don't have a problem with princesses. I have a problem with lame characters and bad storytelling.", this is of course out of context but she is obviously quite annoyed that her vision for the show has been destroyed... Yet she has to do conventions and these documentarys.

 

[Torrasque]

The only way a Brony documentary should be tackled is by someone who is neutral to the show, preferably someone who has seen a single episode. The less they know about Bronydom and the more time they spend researching it and documenting their plunge into the fandom, the better the documentary would be.
The best documentaries I've seen are where people go into a subject knowing very little and finish the documentary knowing just about all their is about it. A fan video is pointless and is just a nod in the wrong direction. We don't need any more tooting of our own horns, there is more than enough of that already >.>

 

[KeyMaster45]

I feel bad for Lauren Faust as well who is essentially trying to forget the show and work on other projects but keeps getting clawed back in for this kind of shit, she even said earlier on Twitter "I don't have a problem with princesses. I have a problem with lame characters and bad storytelling.", this is of course out of context but she is obviously quite annoyed that her vision for the show has been destroyed... Yet she has to do conventions and these documentarys.

Maybe she shouldn't have left the show after the first season? It was very apparent in some of the Q&As she did with the fandom early on that she'd fought Hasbro tooth and nail to create the product of season 1. As season 2 wore on and the influence in the creation process waned the misguided clutch of Hasbro's marketing department began to creep in.(Faust's original design for Cadence was just another unicorn in the same vein as Blue Blood from the s1 finale; it changed after she left) Season 3 was...well...the grip was quite firm but the killing blow came in the finale. There's no way she couldn't have known that after her departure no one would be able to fight Hasbro effectively. She didn't stick around to guard her fledgling creation and now she's seeing the consequences of that.

OT: The lack of quality in the documentary comes as no surprise to me. I remember when the idea first started floating around the fandom in the gap between season 1 and 2; even then it sounded stupid. That twit Sethisto, however, latched onto it and that was the end of anybody listening to why it was a bad idea.

Honestly the whole fandom sorta sickens me now. Anybody who enjoyed the show with any kind of moderation left long ago when they got sick of putting up with the zealots and the ever increasing focus on sexualizing the characters. The breaking point for me was the controversy around Derpy. It brought to the forefront a very ugly side of the fandom, and that those left in charge of the show after Faust's departure would mangle their work due to the complaints from about twenty people.

 

[Lugbzurg]

I haven't seen that myself, but I felt quite the same way watching Indie Game: The Movie (which was a documentary with a misleading title). It was downright embarrassing and painful to watch. The three indie game developers they picked out just had to be the most anti-social, angry, depressing, profane jerks they could possibly find with several honest mentions of the desire for suicide and murder.

NO, I AM NOT KIDDING.

 

[Hyenatempest]

I wouldn't expect a Pokemon documentary to comment on the pornography either. Indeed, people should look down on viewing sexual expression as a negative thing if they're not into it, because this sexually repressive and dumb attitude that marginalizes other is...dumb. and stupid.

Same thing with death threats and dumb fandom drama. Everyone knows it exists, because it exists everywhere. A documentary is not a debate with a set topic to discuss and provide arguments for and against, it's supposed to tell you about something, to inform you. It's supposed to be as impartial as you can make it. You can talk about the more questionable sides by talking about just how varied the amount of fan content is in regards to media and tone without being "OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THIS SMUT IT'S SO BAAAAD," which isn't a healthy attitude to have in your head or a tone in your documentary. That's not to say you can't say negative shit, you just have to prioritize and find...shit that's actually bad and not just weird.

Talk about Hasbro and our love-hate relationship with them, or how EQD has been pandering to them nowadays. Talk about the mixed reception to different seasons by fans. We're a very reactionary community. Not without reason (TWICORN*COUGH*SHITTY THIRD SEASON*COUGH* TERRIBLE CHARACTERIZATION IN SEASON 2*COUGH*), but we can be mixed in reception and vitriol.

It shouldn't be a hour long fandom handjob, and it should exist for a reason, but if you're going to bring up negative shit, don't do it for its own sake.

So what you're saying is that if they had a documentary on bioware fans they should neglect to mention the death threats because other fandoms make them too? Isn't the point of a documentary to inform? While we're at it lets make a documentary on Stalin and ignore the killings since Hitler did them too.

"So why should any documentary give any air time to such subjective horse shit? Or even take it seriously? All that would do is send the message that "this argument may have legs" when in reality it doesn't"

From the sounds of it all it was was subjective bullshit in favor of the show, so why not have a few dissenting opinions, see the point about documentaries existing to inform, not reassert. If they are making a documentary with only one sided arguments, they aren't making a documentary, they are making propaganda. That being said, a documentary on the brony fandom does seem like it would be incredibly shallow as there isn't really anything to it. It's just a cartoon some people like.

 

[Zeldias]

Documentaries ought to comment on controversy. Otherwise, it's just X amount of minutes spent masturbating the material. Whether Rule 34 and all that should come up, I don't know, but if there have been beefs and bad shit bubbling in the fandom, it ought to be mentioned. Same way I'd expect someone plotting to craft a Tali sex doll to come up in a documentary about Mass Effect fans.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Thanks to you (Thank you!), I just watched it.

My stance is still pretty much the same. MLP started out as cartoons to promote sales of plasticky toys for girls. I can accept that. When I was into Barbie, I watched Barbie crap. Down at the toy store, I also got exposed to He-Man animations, so I also got He-Man and some of his buddies. I got the pink whatever from Barbie, and the Skull castle from He-Man. The different proportions didn't matter much to me back then. I liked the fact that the males were fascinatingly muscular and about half the size of most of my female plastic puppet muppets.

Do I think it's smart for young, impressionable males to watch MLP? I am still conflicted about this one. I've met grown males that watched Sex in the City and were still exceptionally good, shallow fucks. Dedicated, but ADD-ish with anything emotional. Power consumers, power drillers. Nice fucks, that's it. Nothing that I wanted to enjoy for more than one night, one week or a month, though. Disposable heroes, so to speak.

I liked the guy keeping the old Benz alive.

I liked the Israeli sound artist.

I liked the inspiration and seemingly positivistic approach to isolated and otherwise straineous lives that obviously is present in the MLP/Brony community. If it allows these or any young men to survive, it's perfectly fine in my books; if it turns them all into feminist zombies, or otherwise easily impressionable adults and voters, it's no better than any other vehicle, intended to be such or not.

What I don't think I should keep from you is this one, single emotion: even after more than an hour of having watched it, I cannot shake feeling genuinely sad for everyone involved. There's just an overload of detachment, mute rebellion and the feeling of not belonging in whatever family, village, city or place they were born into. That shit never gets easy. We might find ways of making it feel better, but it's just so darn easy to get all twisted and confused in the process.

You might not like that. I am no Brony or Brony lover or MLP lover. If I met an adult male and found out he loved MLP, I'm not sure about how I'd respond.

If the love and everything is there, I think I'd rather let a male wear my clothes and get high on kinky shit than watch MLP. From where I stand, it really looks like a confusing and confused army of outcasts and freaks that get herded into yet another exploitative scheme. If my fictional, Pony-loving male mate would still fuck me like an animal and function as my very real significant other, why should I bother? I don't know. I don't know of any Pony-lover in my vicinity that's also a cool dude. Fact is, I don't know any Brony IRL. All the Bronies I know of are ethereal and online-only. And I don't feel like going to a Brony-con.

If it just empowers the individual, cool. If it ever gets abused by anyone, not so cool.

 

[Bashfluff]

I wouldn't expect a Pokemon documentary to comment on the pornography either. Indeed, people should look down on viewing sexual expression as a negative thing if they're not into it, because this sexually repressive and dumb attitude that marginalizes other is...dumb. and stupid.

Same thing with death threats and dumb fandom drama. Everyone knows it exists, because it exists everywhere. A documentary is not a debate with a set topic to discuss and provide arguments for and against, it's supposed to tell you about something, to inform you. It's supposed to be as impartial as you can make it. You can talk about the more questionable sides by talking about just how varied the amount of fan content is in regards to media and tone without being "OH MY GOD LOOK AT ALL THIS SMUT IT'S SO BAAAAD," which isn't a healthy attitude to have in your head or a tone in your documentary. That's not to say you can't say negative shit, you just have to prioritize and find...shit that's actually bad and not just weird.

Talk about Hasbro and our love-hate relationship with them, or how EQD has been pandering to them nowadays. Talk about the mixed reception to different seasons by fans. We're a very reactionary community. Not without reason (TWICORN*COUGH*SHITTY THIRD SEASON*COUGH* TERRIBLE CHARACTERIZATION IN SEASON 2*COUGH*), but we can be mixed in reception and vitriol.

It shouldn't be a hour long fandom handjob, and it should exist for a reason, but if you're going to bring up negative shit, don't do it for its own sake.

So what you're saying is that if they had a documentary on bioware fans they should neglect to mention the death threats because other fandoms make them too? Isn't the point of a documentary to inform? While we're at it lets make a documentary on Stalin and ignore the killings since Hitler did them too.

"So why should any documentary give any air time to such subjective horse shit? Or even take it seriously? All that would do is send the message that "this argument may have legs" when in reality it doesn't"

From the sounds of it all it was was subjective bullshit in favor of the show, so why not have a few dissenting opinions, see the point about documentaries existing to inform, not reassert. If they are making a documentary with only one sided arguments, they aren't making a documentary, they are making propaganda. That being said, a documentary on the brony fandom does seem like it would be incredibly shallow as there isn't really anything to it. It's just a cartoon some people like.

Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying. Every fandom has death threats. Every fandom has porn. Not every leader kills millions of people, which is why your comparison is dumb. Documentaries, again, aren't arguments. There shouldn't be negative shit about the show for its own sake. We don't talk about the rare purple chested troll fucker in nature documentaries and say, "Hey, but some people don't like this animal!"

No. A documentary is not an argument or a discussion. It's purpose is to tell you about the subject. This is the fandom. This is how it came to be, and this is why. This is how the internet reacted, this is the relationship to the different providers of the content, here's some notable stuff the fandom has done, and here is where the future of the fandom seems to be headed. It's not hard to make one of these, folks...

 

[Broderick]

The problem with the "Dark side" of the brony fandom is pinpointing what the "dark side" actually is as you said. Rule 34? Every fandom has that, and sexuality is not an inherently bad thing. You may say that is bad when applied to a children's tv show, but I think that is up for debate, and really depends on the characters in question (would pinkie or twilight be more "acceptable" to sexualize than say one of the children of the show?). I think the over reactions of fans and much of the drama is closer to a "dark side" than cartoon pony genitalia. I mean hell, the derpygate fiasco and the much more recent

Spoiler

Twilicorn

controversy speaks much more about the community. Also the various in fights with musicians and other "prominent" members of the mlp fandom would have been better to address. Like say... Yelling At Cats' song about derpy, where he specifically names and verbally berates a member of the fandom, which many believe to be part of the reason why derpy's voice was changed in later versions of a specific episode.

I have not seen the documentary, even though I myself was a backer of it. Many of the musicians and artists of the mlp fandom see the documentary as a huge circle jerk, and was disappointed in it. As for me? I will watch it when the time comes and pass judgement then.

That would be why I said I do not know if rule 34 should be applicable in this case. However, there still should've been some sort of negative aspect of it. Go talk to some people who find the love (or as the people who dislike bronies would say, "obsession") with the show to be unusual, bizarre, etc.

The point of documentaries is to educate people. In the type of documentary this brony one sounds to be, it sounds like it's the type of documentary intended to turn someone with a negative opinion of the culture so they can see it's just as normal and human as any other type of entertainment. But the way the OP made it out to be, it sounds as if all they're doing is putting out the positive elements. Putting in negative ones, no matter how minor, will allow the people against MLP fandom to see their opinion, stay drawn in to the documentary, and to watch the rest of it so they get a better understanding of bronies/pegasisters/etc.

The "dark side" of it is up to debate on what it should've been, but the OP's point on including some negative things still stands. However, as I've said, I haven't seen this documentary, so I'm just speculating based off of the OP's initial post.

Indeed, which is why I included some examples of negative aspects of the fandom in my post. I agree with you that it needs to show the good with the bad, I just think there are much better examples than rule 34, some of which you mentioned. I am agreeing with you mind you.

 

[secretkeeper12]

Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying. Every fandom has death threats. Every fandom has porn. Not every leader kills millions of people, which is why your comparison is dumb. Documentaries, again, aren't arguments. There shouldn't be negative shit about the show for its own sake. We don't talk about the rare purple chested troll fucker in nature documentaries and say, "Hey, but some people don't like this animal!"

No. A documentary is not an argument or a discussion. It's purpose is to tell you about the subject. This is the fandom. This is how it came to be, and this is why. This is how the internet reacted, this is the relationship to the different providers of the content, here's some notable stuff the fandom has done, and here is where the future of the fandom seems to be headed. It's not hard to make one of these, folks...

What about militant bronies who constantly insert ponies into every discussion? What about the controversy that occurred over the banning of a certain rule 34 artist (I believe the escapist had a thread on that very thing, even)? What about all sorts of other negative things that happen in the brony community? Dismissing them all by saying "they happen everywhere" is painfully weak.

 

[Reeve]

Don't you think you might be taking this too seriously? If I'm a fan of something, I'm a fan because it's fun.

 

[Section Crow]

I don't know about this mannn...

Documentaries are always going to be slim picking of the things they are trying to represent, its supposed to inform you to the best of the persons ability via the evidence provided and to be fair, this isn't a documentary about the war its about a large fanbase and i think the director person thing is just straining for some level of understanding of what a is a 'brony'.

I don't know what i'm writing but hell maybe someone can find some sense in it, i guess what i'm trying to say is that the people who watch this don't want to know about the arguments inside the fandom they just want to understand what a 'brony' is and why they have that word attached to their person or some shit about the director foraging his own definition of a brony.

gobbledygook above.

 

[Dangit2019]

Don't you think you might be taking this too seriously? If I'm a fan of something, I'm a fan because it's fun.

Wait, the show, or the documentary?

Because I don't usually put the show under any sort of microscope above a basic standard of a cartoon, but when someone makes a documentary with the pure intent of reassurance instead of information, than I just have a problem with that, and wish to discuss it. You know, on a discussion website.