Why can't i play Nazi's?

[Xero Scythe]

We have all seen the many many MANY WWII games in which we play as either the allies or the sovjets. But why are there so few games in which i can play as the Nazi's?

The ethical/political discussion aside, war is hell, for both sides. The Allies weren't fighting demons, the Axis suffered a great deal as well. And i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

there is one thing i can think of. i think they made a videogame based on "All Quiet On the Western Front", which was a book that related on the Nazi side. very famous.

Actually, Im Westen nichts Neues (or All's quiet on the western front) is about the first world war and was first published in 1929, 4 years before the Nazi's came to power. I doubt it related to the Nazi's at all.

-reads book again.- oh sh**. You're right. Well. forgive me for talking nonsense.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Why would you want to? The Nazis obviously weren't good people and if you played as the Nazis, no matter what they did it would seem like glorifying the evil side. Unless you're playing as a Nazi traitor who was a Nazi at first, realized they were evil, and his job was to sabotage their plans and eventually switch sides and fight for the Americans... actually I would play that game...

 

[Xero Scythe]

i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

I agree, both sides of my family fought for the Nazi regime, and media like "Inglorious Bastards" makes me want to strangle the writers, I can guarantee most of the Nazi soldiers were either indoctrinated ot did not want to fight for the regime at all, but rather were forced.

Bar the SS of course, Hitler's most loyally brainwashed mental patients.

No, that would be the Gestapo.

 

[The Kangaroo]

Actually, they were just an army that conquered Europe. The German Wehrmacht was used for Germns frontlines, while the murdering of ethnic groups was left to the SS and the Einzatgroupens. I'm sorry, but you're argument seems lacking....

my point is, that while it's perfectly ok to play as one kind of stereotypical bad guy, it's not ok to play as another stereotypical bad guy, I'm not going to get drawn into a debate about who actually did what. All I'm trying to say is that it's a bit of a double standard.

There is a difference between Nazi and German soldier and while I agree with you that Nazi's and terrorists are fuckheads so were the Russians, I mean the things Russians did in the war are horrible and lets not forget the mass murderers that are the Americans(atomic bomb) but yet we constantly play as them, slaughtering people by the thousand.

Or to put it another way: It doesn't matter who you play as, you're* still a dick.

* you in this case means the player character in game.

Yep because every side murdered civilians

 

[The Kangaroo]

i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

I agree, both sides of my family fought for the Nazi regime, and media like "Inglorious Bastards" makes me want to strangle the writers, I can guarantee most of the Nazi soldiers were either indoctrinated ot did not want to fight for the regime at all, but rather were forced.

Bar the SS of course, Hitler's most loyally brainwashed mental patients.

No, that would be the Gestapo.

Ah gestapo, what cheeky monkeys

 

[Xero Scythe]

Why would you want to? The Nazis obviously weren't good people and if you played as the Nazis, no matter what they did it would seem like glorifying the evil side. Unless you're playing as a Nazi traitor who was a Nazi at first, realized they were evil, and his job was to sabotage their plans and eventually switch sides and fight for the Americans... actually I would play that game...

then you better hope for an Operation Valkyrie video game.
(yes i realize i probably spelled that wrong)

 

[The Kangaroo]

We have all seen the many many MANY WWII games in which we play as either the allies or the sovjets. But why are there so few games in which i can play as the Nazi's?

The ethical/political discussion aside, war is hell, for both sides. The Allies weren't fighting demons, the Axis suffered a great deal as well. And i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

Because most games would still portray the Allies as unsung heroes and you'd probably end up joining them

 

[ProfessorLayton]

then you better hope for an Operation Valkyrie video game.
(yes i realize i probably spelled that wrong)

Thank you, I forgot what that was called...

 

[Mr Companion]

The reason people would not want to play as the Nazis is because people, even me, wouldn't want to gun down allied soldiers. It would feel counter productive.

 

[shootthebandit]

i think this is a good topic

nazi soldiers werent all bad, they were forced to join the war just like the allied men and women (correct me if im wrong but im sure the soviets had women soldiers, anyway its irrelevent). i believe there are a few flying games where you can play as the lufftwaffe (sp?) although flying has alot less ethical limitations than an infantry game

you can play as nazis if its multiplayer so why not in campaign, its the same in COD4. why isnt there a campaign were you play as an arab

 

[Assassin Xaero]

We have all seen the many many MANY WWII games in which we play as either the allies or the sovjets. But why are there so few games in which i can play as the Nazi's?

The ethical/political discussion aside, war is hell, for both sides. The Allies weren't fighting demons, the Axis suffered a great deal as well. And i think it's about time we gave Hans in the trench a little bit more of a human face.

May I introduce you to the following game then: Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad [http://kotaku.com/5333962/red-orchestra-2-heroes-of-stalingrad-screens/gallery/]

The campaign is from the Nazi point of view.

Aww... damn... you beat me to it...
But geez... can't any of you other people learn to use the search bar of the internet?

 

[Notion]

German soldiers are so much more badass. I always play Wehrmacht in company of heroes. But yea I wanna play as a german more often. MP 44s and MP 40s are two very awesome guns, and there helmets look cool .

 

[Manji187]

It's this nasty association with evil... as if you are condoning what the Nazi's did by buying and playing such a game. Yes..not all Germans were Nazi's and not all Nazi's did terrible things but the human mind likes to generalize. In the end, human beings think a lot less than they think they do.

Meh... I'll attempt to paraphrase your quote.

"Condemnation of generalizing as you proceed to generalize about all humans. Assertion that people are stupid (except you). Statement equivalent to 'all mammals are vertebrates but not all vertebrates are mammals'. Nonsense statement that seems to imply that you're a better analyst of the human condition than the plebians."

The game described hasn't been made because it's difficult for individuals today to empathize with a German soldier in WWII. Games, especially those presented from a first-person perspective, usually try to justify your actions, and they can take two routes to explaining the motivations of the main character.
The first is by making an attempt to make you feel what the character feels or at least understand how he/she feels so that you'll behave the way the game dictates you must. The second is by using popular imagery and commonly held beliefs, assuming you already understand how the character could feel that way.


What irritates me the most about your silly argument is the fact that the real reason people haven't made this game is the exact opposite of your statement. There are plenty of games where the main character is an undeniably evil, even demonic, force. Some games offer moral choices where you can decide to be the most evil dude in the history of time, and they reward you for it. The reason there are no games featuring Nazis or 1930's German soldiers as protagonists isn't because we think they're inhman. It's because we KNOW they're human, and that realization makes us uncomfortable. We understand that they have many of the same motivations as we do, but we can't understand why someone would want to help the Nazis. We know that they are the same as us, and that even the best of us are capable of aiding and abetting some of history's worst atrocities.

Well I guess my English dictionary is bad. What does "to empathize" mean then? Cuz I thought it meant what you stated (The first is by...). You and I want the same, immersion. I was just trying to point out that THIS PARTICULAR immersion is made difficult by a "taboo on evil".

Yes, there are games in which you can be evil. But there is a huge difference in something that is entirely fictional and something that is based on something that was once very real. You might even have a grandfather/ grandmother who survived the Holocaust and who's story you've heard. Although WWII was more than 60 years ago...it's legacy survives to this day. Denying the Holocaust is a huge taboo as has been confirmed recently...well..what kind of news coverage will a game get that allows you to play as the Nazi's (and probably execute some historically accurate atrocities)?

As regards the human condition: drop the word Nazi and wait for a reaction. Most people are conditioned by society to respond in the likes of: Nazi = bad. It's a reflex-like shortcut, cancelling out conscious "in-depth" thought. We have lots of those. Sometimes they are handy: red light = stop/ danger/ attention required, green light: go on, safe, everything is in order.

But when it gets complicated/ abstract that's when they can cause serious "damage": what does "fighting for freedom" mean? Sounds good right? Well some of the worst atrocities (yes, I like this word in human history were conducted under the flag of freedom, and are still conducted this very day. But who wants to be bored by a long story when there are so many obligations and activities in life?

It's funny how you've made almost a psychological profile from a general statement (Human beings think a lot less than they think they do) and felt the need to show me your intellectual prowess. Let's just say...you're special...I'm special..everybody happy. Deal?

I'm curious though...do you acknowledge that there is a distinction between "the common man" (plebians) and the aristocrat/ elite? And if it truly exists...why does it offend?

 

[dangdiggityderek]

There's a German campaign in the original Empire Earth.....but its before the U.S. enters the war so you're fighting the french, the Russians and the British. The Campaign actually starts in the beginning of WWI but as you progress it moves toward WWII. Its a RTS if anyone cares.

 

[teutonicman]

No one wants to play a WW2 shooter where you lose.

 

[freakonaleash]

I would like to see a GERMAN point of view game, considering they fought pretty much everyone and my great great grandpa was a wehrmacht soldier

 

[Clashero]

Because NO, dude.

Yes, they were humans. Yes, other humans have committed atrocities before and since, but the Nazis pretty much set the standard for the modern day concept of "The Banality of Evil". I mean, you can't really divorce "Nazi" from "Death Camp", from "Final Solution", from essentially the very atrocities that make even the use of a swastika (a relatively innocent symbol in some religions) verboten. You want to play a Nazi, you're going to have to defend your desire to play as a character who is not only supporting but defending an institution that created an entire bureaucracy dedicated to killing Jews, Roma, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and pretty much anyone who seemed even the least bit out of place.

Agreed though a game where you play as a Wermacht soldier might work. A lot of soldiers didn't know about the whole death camps and whatnot so if you had the main character and their squad mainly anti-Nazi but with a few Nazis thrown in to mix it up a bit then you could probably get it to sell.

Company of Heroes lets you play as the Wermacht, as well all 3 Brothers In Arms.

It's this nasty association with evil... as if you are condoning what the Nazi's did by buying and playing such a game. Yes..not all Germans were Nazi's and not all Nazi's did terrible things but the human mind likes to generalize. In the end, human beings think a lot less than they think they do.

And this. So much this.

 

[k3v1n]

Because NO, dude.

Yes, they were humans. Yes, other humans have committed atrocities before and since, but the Nazis pretty much set the standard for the modern day concept of "The Banality of Evil". I mean, you can't really divorce "Nazi" from "Death Camp", from "Final Solution", from essentially the very atrocities that make even the use of a swastika (a relatively innocent symbol in some religions) verboten. You want to play a Nazi, you're going to have to defend your desire to play as a character who is not only supporting but defending an institution that created an entire bureaucracy dedicated to killing Jews, Roma, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, and pretty much anyone who seemed even the least bit out of place.

Yeah, you can kill, rob and maim in other games, but there's a difference between doing that and playing as a character who is a willing member of a regime that in an organized and efficient manner killed millions of people and tried to take over the world. (No, seriously, look up the concept of "Liebensraum"-- Nazi Germany was possibly the closest you could get to an IRL supervillain empire.)

as much as I agree with you, in most games you can play as a Soviet and, actually, Stalin was on par with Hitler in being a Tyranical bastard who also killed(probably killed more than Hitler to be precise)

 

[Britisheagle]

I thought you could on Company of Heroes? Ah well maybe I'm wrong, but if even if you can I would never play as them. No matter which way you look at it, even if they thought they were doing the right thing, it's still wrong.

 

[Manji187]

I thought you could on Company of Heroes? Ah well maybe I'm wrong, but if even if you can I would never play as them. No matter which way you look at it, even if they thought they were doing the right thing, it's still wrong.

I bet if people could play as Oscar Schindler (or a character like that) everything would be just fine.