Why Dishonored 2 doesnot have corvo as sole protagonist?

[Elvis Starburst]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

imo all these games absolutely suck. not because they have female characters but because they are mediocre. especially new tomb raider games.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

But believe it or not, some of the best known games come from female protagonists

what are these games? can you name them? as far as i know 99% of best games feature male protagonists.

I can name one. Portal

[Edited this first bit, re-read your post]

Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from Metroid, Bayonetta from... Bayonetta, you can be female in Mass Effect, Shantae from... Shantae, Aya Brea from Parasite Eve, Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark, Amanda Ripley from Alien Isolation, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, to name a few

imo all these games absolutely suck. not because they have female characters but because they are mediocre. especially new tomb raider games.

Elvis, somehow I don't think you're going to convince him. Just a hunch.

 

[EternallyBored]

. Assassin would be silly.

Wait what's wrong with her being an assassin? Wasn't she tought by Corvo?

Because of what I said later.

Realistically, she'd have underground rebels fighting for her, forbidding her from getting herself in danger, since she is vitally important to their cause. Like in Hidden Fortress. She would be learning about politics and her royal duties instead.

If no one will fight for her, why the hell is she trying to reclaim her throne?

Someone mentioned she could learn her duties in the fifteen years between the games, but there are other problems.

Also, assassinating would make it much harder for her to be supported by her people. Prowling and murder is looked down on. There's no way the rebels, if there are any who support her, would risk this identity getting out. There's no need for her to get her hands literally dirty.

Okay, I gotta ask; why are these details so important to adhere to realism while the entire game world is a steampunk power fantasy? Why does magic and psychic talking clockwork hearts and silent protagonists who refuse to defend themselves by just speaking, all get away with the realism criticism, yet a woman's ability and motivation for being an assassin is somehow the breaking point? I am completely and utterly baffled here.

Realism is nearly always important. It makes the extraordinary more believable, gives it a foundation and makes the stakes more exciting. This is pretty contrived.

Not really sure why you are drawing the realism line in such a bizarre place, especially one that the first game happily violated by having the well trained guard captain be the one man resistance, off on solo assassination missions rather than lending his expertise to training saboteurs, gathering allies, etc. The entire resistance in the first game hinges way too much on Corvo for any sort of realistic scenario. Really you could spend all day nitpicking stupid shit the protagonist and antagonists do in that game if you really want to apply that arbitrary level of realism to it.

The front line royal is such a mainstream trope I am curious why its supposed lack of realism bugs you so much, despite fiction often having princes and princesses running off on solo or small team adventures to topple evil powers that make little sense if you apply the logic you seem to want to apply to Emily here.

Realism can Add to a setting, but you are drawing the line in a weird place that I think may only apply to your personal level of suspension of disbelief, which you are welcome to, but I really am not seeing any problems with the lines of logic the game is setting up, not without casting the same criticism on entire game series that have similar setups, which would mean most people can buy the rogue royal plotline without the same issues you seem to have with it.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Not really sure why you are drawing the realism line in such a bizarre place, especially one that the first game happily violated by having the well trained guard captain be the one man resistance, off on solo assassination missions rather than lending his expertise to training saboteurs, gathering allies, etc. The entire resistance in the first game hinges way too much on Corvo for any sort of realistic scenario.

Not really disagreeing with you, but Corvo isn't a "well-trained guard captain." He isn't associated with the guard or the City Watch at all. He's a super badass who was deliberately picked for the fact that he was a) a super badass and b) loyal to the Empress first, with no other connections to anyone else that might be exploited.

And to be honest, using Corvo for assassinations instead of rear-echelon stuff like training or networking is actually way more sensible, considering that the Lord Regent's co-conspirators can be counted on one hand and - as a former bodyguard - Corvo is ideally placed to know how to get past other people's bodyguards. The loyalists had no real resources other than Corvo, but also no real obstacles other than the four or five people who needed to die in order for them to take power.

On...eugh..."topic", whether it's "realistic" or not for Emily to be an assassin...I doubt Corvo trained her as an assassin, but he almost certainly trained her, for her own self-defence. That's explanation enough for most players. Shit, it's more explanation than what we get for why Booker DeWitt is able to churn through an army of racists and revolutionaries despite only being a private detective of dubious competence.

Anyway, this thread is fucking dumb and I'm amazed it hasn't been locked already. A more obvious example of shit-stirring I have not seen in some time.

 

[Kyrian007]

Probably its to get rid of specifically any fans that would think it was a "feminazi" plot. No one needs that kind of "person" in its fanbase.

 

[BarryMcCociner]

Well, seeing as Corvo was largely silent in the first game, there's no reason to consider him an icon of Dishonored.

You brought up Snake, why is Snake the icon of MGS? Because of his personality, because he endeared himself to gamers, because we were given multiple games to learn about him and come to understand him. We go through a Nature VS Nurture struggle with him in MGS1 (well, more of a lack of one as he was a clone of a supersoldier raised to be a weapon) and he spends the second game mentoring us by proxy through Raiden, telling us to critically analyse all information and to make sure we understand what we're passing on to the next generation, not to simply imitate our heroes. In the fourth game we see him coming to terms with the fact that his status of a clone renders him almost incapable of living a normal life, but there's no reason he shouldn't try.

A character being iconic comes with us sympathizing with them and what we can learn form them. It's much more difficult for a character to become an icon than it is for an object, like just for the sake of example I'll pull something out of my ass on the spot.

It was easy for the Starship Enterprise to become iconic, it has a unique design, the camera eyefucks it at every convenient opportunity, and most importantly it doesn't have a personality, it can't talk. It can't be annoying to viewers. But Gene Roddenberry had to put titanic effort into making Kirk, Bones and Spock iconic, these characters had to hold the attention of viewers and leave a lasting impression. That ain't easy.

Now as for the diversity thing, yes it's obvious that Arkane are trying to score the easy brownie points with a female character. That was obvious from the time it was announced that Emily would be playable. Anyone who tries to deny that will be getting that cheeky smile. You know the smile. The one that says "You're bullshiting me. I know it, you know it. You know that I know it. And I know that you know that I know it. So stop."

But I ask, even if Arkane is doing this just to score points (which they are), what does that matter as long as the gameplay and characters are good?

At least they're giving Emily a new array of powers. Why not have a different protagonist in every Dishonored? A new protagonist with new powers every game? There's not that much in the Dishonored lore that really points to Corvo as being all that important in the world beyond his assassinations. Sure he has the Outsiders mark, but as far as I know, Corvo having the mark doesn't prohibit anyone else from having it.

 

[Rip Van Rabbit]

Hmm, Emily's gameplay looks a hell of lot more stylish. Flair and utility? Sign me up.
Corvo. Ehh, not a whole lot that's new on the table. Still not seeing why his existence in particular is justified. But hey, at least we have variety this time around.

Oh silly me! I forgot that Emily can't be a *badass on account of her royal status/pair of X chromosomes.
I must be seeing things, or Corvo possessed Emily for this portion of the gameplay shown.

[small](*Note: Boys only club! Girls have cooties!)[/small]

 

[EternallyBored]

Not really sure why you are drawing the realism line in such a bizarre place, especially one that the first game happily violated by having the well trained guard captain be the one man resistance, off on solo assassination missions rather than lending his expertise to training saboteurs, gathering allies, etc. The entire resistance in the first game hinges way too much on Corvo for any sort of realistic scenario.

Not really disagreeing with you, but Corvo isn't a "well-trained guard captain." He isn't associated with the guard or the City Watch at all. He's a super badass who was deliberately picked for the fact that he was a) a super badass and b) loyal to the Empress first, with no other connections to anyone else that might be exploited.

And to be honest, using Corvo for assassinations instead of rear-echelon stuff like training or networking is actually way more sensible, considering that the Lord Regent's co-conspirators can be counted on one hand and - as a former bodyguard - Corvo is ideally placed to know how to get past other people's bodyguards. The loyalists had no real resources other than Corvo, but also no real obstacles other than the four or five people who needed to die in order for them to take power.

Corvo is the royal protector, the city watch and guards make comments in the game about him training them, and training with them, he was an official guard in Kanarka as well before being sent to the emperor.

His main use was as an elite bodyguard, but we get into the hinkiness of the outsider powers here. I don't mean he should stay solely in the rear echelon, but it is absolutely video game protagonist centered morality that leaves Corvo as basically the only active member of the conspiracy that does all the killing of high level targets.

Even with his skills, he gets his ass beat by Daud and his men in the beginning, so the outsider powers are what set him, and Emily in 2, so far apart from everyone else, what the game uses as the justification for why these 2 are the only ones that can assassinate all these well-protected figures. In any sort of realistic scenario where an extra dimensional entity isn't purposely handing out protagonist powers to people in dreams, having the conspiracy hang so much of its plans on Corvo is not very realistic, he can still be on the front line, just like real important figures have ruled and fought from the front lines in the past, but his non-combat skills are squandered in the name of narrative flow within the first game.

Corvo and Emily being one man armies is mostly justified through their superpowers from an entity that purposely hands them out to people who have the highest chance of causing chaos, so I agree that this argument is largely pedantic as the game universe itself has a quasi-god set up to justify why the protagonist, Corvo or Emily, are the only ones capable of pulling off their respective goals solo. The discussion of how superpowered assassins should "realistically" work is ultimately kind of a silly one.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Elvis, somehow I don't think you're going to convince him. Just a hunch.

Trust me, I know.

imo all these games absolutely suck. not because they have female characters but because they are mediocre. especially new tomb raider games.

Never said you had to like them. You asked me which games are well known and have female protagonists. So I gave them to you. Like them or not, they're real, and they're popular/loved by many. Maybe not you (Cause god knows you hate everything with a XX chromosome), but loved by many others. Enough to make them into popular hit titles and franchises

 

[Hawki]

(Cause god knows you hate everything with a X chromosome), but loved by many others. Enough to make them into popular hit titles and franchises

Technically that would include men as well, since our chromosones are XY. Maybe it's better to say "everything without a Y chromosone?"

Yes I'm being pedantic, bite me. ^_^

 

[Elvis Starburst]

(Cause god knows you hate everything with a X chromosome), but loved by many others. Enough to make them into popular hit titles and franchises

Technically that would include men as well, since our chromosones are XY. Maybe it's better to say "everything without a Y chromosone?"

Yes I'm being pedantic, bite me. ^_^

Ahh, but Y chromosomes are strictly male. He doesn't hate males. He seemingly slurps the badass off the males with every bit of his tongue, so I don't think'd be correct. I'll edit my post though

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Am I a terrible person for thinking B-Cell is probably some of the best entertainment you can get on the Escapist nowadays?
I think this has been the most humorously him thread so far. The staff should let him write columns. It'd be amazing.

 

[Zombie Proof]

Am I a terrible person for thinking B-Cell is probably some of the best entertainment you can get on the Escapist nowadays?
I think this has been the most humorously him thread so far. The staff should let him write columns. It'd be amazing.

You're not alone. The part of my brain that enjoys Dumb and Dumber definitely perks up at the sight of his threads lol.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

why is not tomb raider has second male playable character?

Apples and oranges much?

But fine, I'll play along. Why is Corvo even in Dishonored 2? The devs have stated that Dishonored 2 will be Emily's story and her struggle to return to power, so why is Corvo even there? Why not leave him as a side character so that we can focus properly on Emily and her story?

Maybe because it's kinda his Job? He's Lord Protector, the Bodyguard to the Empress. While I agree with the overall idea you have of Emily as a playible character...it doesn't make much sense to me that she'd have the necessary skillset in the first place. But whatever, I'm sure they'll offer some kind of explanation.

Here's an explanation that is both easy and plausible: Corvo taught Emily himself so in the event he isn't there, she isn't defenceless. Boom, done. Can I get my writers credit now?

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

why is not tomb raider has second male playable character?

Apples and oranges much?

But fine, I'll play along. Why is Corvo even in Dishonored 2? The devs have stated that Dishonored 2 will be Emily's story and her struggle to return to power, so why is Corvo even there? Why not leave him as a side character so that we can focus properly on Emily and her story?

Maybe because it's kinda his Job? He's Lord Protector, the Bodyguard to the Empress. While I agree with the overall idea you have of Emily as a playible character...it doesn't make much sense to me that she'd have the necessary skillset in the first place. But whatever, I'm sure they'll offer some kind of explanation.

Magic. Literally magic. The entire idea is magic.

 

[RedDeadFred]

why is not tomb raider has second male playable character?

Apples and oranges much?

But fine, I'll play along. Why is Corvo even in Dishonored 2? The devs have stated that Dishonored 2 will be Emily's story and her struggle to return to power, so why is Corvo even there? Why not leave him as a side character so that we can focus properly on Emily and her story?

Maybe because it's kinda his Job? He's Lord Protector, the Bodyguard to the Empress. While I agree with the overall idea you have of Emily as a playible character...it doesn't make much sense to me that she'd have the necessary skillset in the first place. But whatever, I'm sure they'll offer some kind of explanation.

Here's an explanation that is both easy and plausible: Corvo taught Emily himself so in the event he isn't there, she isn't defenceless. Boom, done. Can I get my writers credit now?

Oh come on, why would a father want to teach his daughter how to protect herself? That's clearly never been done before in fiction or real life. This scenario is far too unrealistic and will surely destroy my immersion.

 

[Hawki]

Am I a terrible person for thinking B-Cell is probably some of the best entertainment you can get on the Escapist nowadays?
I think this has been the most humorously him thread so far. The staff should let him write columns. It'd be amazing.

If you're a terrible person by that criteria, then I'm a terrible person as well.

Or maybe we're both not terrible, and can take fun in seeing either a) B-cell's twisted sense of preference in games/fiction, or b) some of the best trolling out there.

 

[distortedreality]

Guys, don't go too hard on him. I find his threads way too hilarious, forums have been a bit dull off and on lately, he brightens up my day and that's not even sarcasm.

At this point I'm starting to think he's some kind of plant with a directive to reinvigorate the forums. He seems to be slowing down a bit now though, doesn't seem to have had many multi thread days recently. I must admit to enjoying some of his work though.

OT - I'm guessing the decision to keep Corvo was more of a continuity thing than anything else. A totally unnecessary gesture given how devoid of personality he was in the first game.

I've been trying to stay away from the preview vids, but I can see myself doing a playthrough with each character just to see the difference in style and story, as opposed to any lasting attachment to Corvo.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Maybe because it's kinda his Job? He's Lord Protector, the Bodyguard to the Empress. While I agree with the overall idea you have of Emily as a playible character...it doesn't make much sense to me that she'd have the necessary skillset in the first place. But whatever, I'm sure they'll offer some kind of explanation.

As Nomotog said, literally Magic. Remember how Corvo went from "the guy who failed to protect the Empress" to "The Vengeance Machine that took down all the usurpers on his own"? The Outsider gave him literal magic powers. So Emily gets couped, gets a visit from the Outsider and gets magic powers (I am willing to bet money that this is how the plot will go down for playthroughs with her). All out of sudden Corvo can be killed off or become a recurring NPC and the story works just as well, if not better.

Let's face it, keeping Corvo in but still as the Lord Protector means that Dishonored 2 will basically be a rehash of Dishonored for him in terms of his personal story. The woman he loves is murdered/usurped and he goes on a revenge spree against those that hurt the woman he loved.