Why do current RPGs not have scythes?

[Therumancer]

I've never really thought about that; though now that it comes to mind there is a very distinct lack of any two-handed weapons entirely!

This is something I have also noticed, and truthfully I think it goes back to AD&D. With early RPGs you were basically given a choice of a single weapon or a weapon and shield as an option. A two hander generally did one dice size up from a one hander, while a shield gave you an extra point of armor class making you harder to hit/damage. The differance between rolling 1d8 for damage and 1d10 for damage was not signifigant enough to warrent giving up a shield.

It wasn't too long before people really started getting into the idea of wanting to use two weapons at the same time. Pretty much as a way of getting an extra attack, multiple attacks being a VERY big deal especially in early D&D games. This served to pretty much invalidate the usage of shields, since there really wasn't any comparison to getting a whole 'nother attack. Getting a point of armor class, or potentially two more points of damage in exchange for being able to hit twice in a round for 1d8 damage? (or even less, in AD&D a lot of the actual damage wound up coming from strength and skills like weapon specialization rather than the base weapon damage).

This is when PnP RPGs were becoming very "game like" compared to their original "simulation" roots from war games. This is also the general period that inspired most computer RPGs which intentionally used rules and logic very similar to the game(s) that inspired them (or game, since we are talking about AD&D).

I personally feel the only time D&D ever had anything close to logic in it's fighting styles was with the very complex "Combat and Tactics" supplement for AD&D 2nd edition (my favorite edition). Shields gave people a massive advantage in real fighting, and I'd much rather have a sword and shield than a second weapon. Through the usage of things like "block-trap" manuvers and adding extra AC they were made viable. Rules for impact, knockdowns, and some of the skills made two handers viable for people who wanted to do a whole lot of damage with one shot, especially given that other effects could be achieved. It was for example possible for a real he-man with a giant hammer to keep hitting someone and knocking them over into a prone position and prevent them from doing much of anything... etc...

Very few games get into that much thought though, Dragon Age: Origins did a fairly good job of balancing out the three big fighting types (sword and shield, two handed, dual wield). Your typical RPG doesn't put that much logic into it.

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More on topic, a Scythe can be an iconic weapon, I mean the Grim Reaper carries one to 'reap souls' and it can be pretty intimidating. Typically the guys who use them in RPGs are necromancers and mages. For example in "Record Of Agarest War" a Scythe is basically a weapon with it's slots divided between dark magic and physical attacks, being directed primarily at warrior-mages who fall more into the caster catagory.

Oh and also for those who have read this far here is a reward of sorts for those who didn't know:

In Ultima 7 you can wield Death's Scythe as a weapon, and yes it IS better than the "Hoe Of Destruction".

The easiest way to do this is in Trinsic in the beginning when you visit the blacksmith shop of Spark's Father (the one where you hear the guardian, and stuff seems to move on it's own) take all the boxes inside and stack them up outside to form a set of steps towards the roof. Walk up them onto the roof and head towards the Chimney, you should wind up inside a hidden room where there are chests full of uber weapons (the best stuff in the game) including Death's Scythe.

So umm, yeah, if noone else mentioned it there are two farming tools you can wield as a weapon.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I meant the gun barrel would be the pole of the scythe. You could shoot at someone and when the dodge you chage up and stab them. (bullet comes from the top of the pole near the blade)

There are no bullets. Gunblades don't shoot things.

Wild arms has a rifle that has a blade mounted to it,so some do shoot things but are they gun swords are gunblades....mmmmmmmm.

A normal human with a scythe sucks,a skilled superhuman can combine both the staff and blade parts and fully utilize every bit of the weaopn, calling it a board with a nail in it is a bit disingenuous.......

Not really, was Sephiroth a middle ages peasant? Specialised training can render a scythe moderately useful but the same training could be better applied to real weapons. A scythe was never a weapon of choice. Look at the handle, that's fucking oak! That's not built for spinny-ninja shit, that's built for a heavy swing to lend momentum to the implement and make it last longer. Also remember how these guys fought, they didn't all line up Final Fantasy style in small parties, they would have been used as a unit to break cavalry charges, they would have held the scythe and braced it, maybe prodded a bit.

You miss my point,fantasy fiction tends to make weapons common thus uncommon weapons are used by the most skilled or at the very least the level of high weaopn skills is common(some weaopn skill becomes less common than no weaopn skill becomes less common than highly skilled thats less common than superior skilled thats less common than godly skilled) IE you get random people who can't fight at all but most can fight at some level with something..

 

[Ekonk]

Because it's a harvesting tool and not a weapon?


I dunno, they're awesome though. Guild Wars dervishes, yeaahhhh. Awesome scythe action.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Because scythes are not weapons.
Now the real question is, why are there no people with the AK-47 as their signature weapon?

What was Lugunas(SP) weaopn of choice in FF8? It was a machingun of some kind, also wild arms uses guns.

 

[Nailz]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

Scythes as well as many farming instruments would be modded for battle in times of need. Much like how we arrived at the trident as a weapon etc. In fact all polearms have agrarian roots In fact most of everything has agrarian roots. It's like saying axes aren't weapons, they're tools for chopping wood. A good example of how a scythe could be modded/used is the Kama, which was used as a weapon as well as a farming tool and has a fighting style built around its use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_%28weapon%29
I agree however that polearms need more representation.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Scythes are viewed as brutal weapons that look positively evil only because they are depicted to be wielded by the angel of death himself. However, the reason behind Death's odd tool choice is due to his other name being the Grim Reaper. He's a reaper of souls. Reapers are harvesters. Harvesters are farmers. Farmers use scythes. There ya go.

 

[SD-Fiend]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.

Exactly, why go into a fight with scythe, a FARMING tool, when you could use... oh lets say a halberd, you know something thats actually made to be used as a weapon?

It's sharp and can cut stuff. Sound like a perfect weapon. Also, knives were cooking tools and are considered weapons.

not all knives are made for cooking

 

[i don't know]

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

adventure quest worlds has scythes, polearms, and axes.

 

[Lexodus]

Spoiler: Arumat does.

Because scythes aren't weapons. They're farming tools. Only an idiot would fight with a scythe.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.70517-Scythes#694172
The real question is why do RPGs neglect polearms and axes? Historically they were the most commonly used melee weapons. Swords were the equivalent of an officers pistol.

adventure quest worlds has scythes, polearms, and axes.

And a mackerel, as well as a fuckton of other stuff. I love that game

 

[Mr. Mike]

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_scythes

It is perfectly possible to make scythes with many different designs. Granted, Dervishes in Guild Wars wield them in an infeasible way, spinning them about their middle, but it IS still possible to have varying scythe designs.

Edit: I know most of these designs are impractical, but I'm talking purely from a design standpoint here.

 

[Judgement101]

Another reason could be artistic. I remember once I was browsing some mods for TES4: Oblivion that added user-made weapons to the game. The blades and maces came in hundreds of different shapes, styles, and sizes. Then some of the modders tried including scythes, but every single scythe looked the same. Why is this?

Here's my theory: Designers like swords, axes, hammers, and staffs because there are various ways to design them. There are nigh-infinite ways to draw swords: lightsabers, the Master sword, Soul Edge, a katana. All swords. Think of all the ways you could visualize a staff. Visual artists resort to these weapon types because they're general and there's multiple ways to draw them. Having different visual styles for a single weapon type adds flavor and variety to a game. But, the scythe has a very certain shape and fixed curvature. The scythe in one game would look just like the scythe in the next game, and would be pretty boring.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_scythes

It is perfectly possible to make scythes with many different designs. Granted, Dervishes in Guild Wars wield them in an infeasible way, spinning them about their middle, but it IS still possible to have varying scythe designs.

I like the Soul Reaper and the Peppermint one

 

[The Middleman]

Some do. Glory of Heracles does.

 

[YuriHellsing]

Play Star Ocean. That is all.

I think he would what to play games that don't suck

 

[Judgement101]

Play Star Ocean. That is all.

I think he would what to play games that don't suck

It was bad?

 

[Lexodus]

snip

Christ, I misread the bottom left one as 'testicle scythe'. Ouch.

 

[Lexodus]

Play Star Ocean. That is all.

I think he would what to play games that don't suck

It was bad?

IT WAS AMAZING.

 

[Rayansaki]

Has anyone noticed that most rpgs don't have scythes as a weapon choice? (None modded games) It sort of annoys me because almost everyone loves a scythe as a weapon. So I was wondering what do you think the reasons for the lack of scythes is?

Because they are incredible hard to animate using. old games didn't have expectations of realistic movement so they were a cool weapon to have, but they really are an absurdly hard weapon to animate a character using.

And yeah, the scythes on Star Ocean: Last hope looked awesome and were wielded by the best melee character so double fine*

 

[Browbeat]

Cross Edge, Trinity Universe, (older) Growlanser 2, Chrono Trigger

The scythe is more of a focus object or a signature item, its weapon status is that of 'cool for the sake of cool'

Then again, in Warhammer40K, Mortarion's Scythe wielded in the hands of a superhuman warrior with futuristic power-armor infused with the cadaverous powers of Papa Nurgle DOES prove to be an effective weapon... farming tool... Imperial Guardsmen count as crops, right?

 

[Wedlock49]

ahem; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

Yes there were war scythe, but they still were impractical and hardly ever used. Also, these were just regular farming scythes, just remade into a polearm, so I doubt that they were made out of sturdy materials, and besides were talking about regular scythes.
Which, once again, were FARMING tools. The whole "well they're sharp" not really, a farmer wouldn't need a really sharp scythe, just sharp enough to cut through grain and such, against chainmail or the like it would do nothing.
SO why don't we see scythes? Simple, they are large, heavy, rather dull, and not a weapon. Now, why don't we see more polearms in RPGs, like spears, or halberds that I honestly don't know.

so... you can't sharpen metal and you can't create a sturdier design of a scythe? the war scythe is pretty much a halberd... halberds work quite well from range as do most pole arms.

Attack pattern for a scythe: swing and hook cutting into their calfs and severing muscles and tendons, have guy behind you with a closer range weapon to finish him off.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

A scythe is a profoundly stupid weapon, that's why they abandoned them.

untrue! but they werent used as sweeping weapons like you see in some anime's or movies, the blade would have been turned 'upward' as in making the stick even longer, and it would end up being a sort of proto-polearm able to hook someone with. the problem with it was that it wasent verry controllable and you could just as well stab your friends as allies XD

So essentially it's not a scythe, it's closer to a glaive, a halberd or a naginata. And that's why they aren't in RPG's, because with a farming scythe with the blade locked in 'grim reaper position' you can maybe, MAYBE stab one person in the side or cut them by moving it behind them and pulling. That's one person dead, every other opponent inside your weapon's protective area (two handed, no shield) and a very good chance your falling opponent will wrest the scythe from you.

Also please note if you do 'hook' someone with a scythe and pull it's unlikely to cut them if they're wearing any kind of armour, the force on the blade is insufficient to generate enough pressure. What you end up with is an enraged soldier being pulled towards you and your weapon stuck behind him. You are dead.

A scythe has a very thick handle and makes no sense as a weapon of choice, it's very much in the same category as a board with a nail in it; improvised weaponry for a section of society just glad to have something sharp.

A normal human with a scythe sucks,a skilled superhuman can combine both the staff and blade parts and fully utilize every bit of the weaopn, calling it a board with a nail in it is a bit disingenuous.......

A skilled superhuman wouldn't need to use a scythe, he would use his fists. Plus what would you rather choose? An impratical weapon that would take some serious practice to even learn how to use it as a proper weapon or a sword which was specific made for easy use?

You have no scene of style or a soul....... stop trying to inject logical logic into fiction.....