Why do people hate the army?
- Thread starter chiefohara
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Then perhaps you could explain to me why malnutrition rates in Iraq have gone up by 9% since we invaded, if we're so busy helping them?imahobbit4062 said:
Also, I'd appreciate it if you stopped swearing at me. If being opposed to needless wars makes me a "fucking sad individual", so be it. It's not quite as pathetic as watching you bend over backwards trying to justify occupying countries we invaded illegally.
And, I must apologize to The Amazing Hobo:
I missed the instance of the word 'ignorant' he referred to, and he did in fact see the word in my post.
The word 'ignorant' he capitalized was in reference to this:
"Having been a soldier, I maintain a great deal of respect for fellow soldiers (serving or served) and I've seen much of the ignorant hatred and contempt."
I've seen a lot of the ignorant hatred and contempt for Militaries. That is completely true. Not terribly sure what the problem with saying that is.
I have seen a lot of hatred towards soldiers based entirely on utter ignorance. Not sure what else to say there.
I missed the instance of the word 'ignorant' he referred to, and he did in fact see the word in my post.
The word 'ignorant' he capitalized was in reference to this:
"Having been a soldier, I maintain a great deal of respect for fellow soldiers (serving or served) and I've seen much of the ignorant hatred and contempt."
I've seen a lot of the ignorant hatred and contempt for Militaries. That is completely true. Not terribly sure what the problem with saying that is.
I have seen a lot of hatred towards soldiers based entirely on utter ignorance. Not sure what else to say there.
Soliders, good people and I like them for protecting our country.
Armies can go to hell because they are used to perpetuate ones power over others when, in fact, with things like the internet that we are so close to common understanding that if we dropped all units and instead focused on creating a better place without killing eachother, we would get further as a species.
Best way to put the army in general, its a bunch of old dudes who are past their generation of understanding controlling young dudes who are in a new generation of understanding to wage wars against those for things that only matter in the short term, not the long term.
Armies can go to hell because they are used to perpetuate ones power over others when, in fact, with things like the internet that we are so close to common understanding that if we dropped all units and instead focused on creating a better place without killing eachother, we would get further as a species.
Best way to put the army in general, its a bunch of old dudes who are past their generation of understanding controlling young dudes who are in a new generation of understanding to wage wars against those for things that only matter in the short term, not the long term.
And I guess I should really apologize to you.Rottweiler said:
The sinuation that you implied that the majority of civilian deaths is made up was not in your post, is was just my rhetoric going haywire.
Still,
you see a lot of ignorant hatred and contempt for Militaries.
I see a lot of ignorant hatred and contempt for people who work in foreign aid (which you said is pissing money away) and the UN (which you said is useless).
So we are both seeing a lot of hatred and contempt.
So everybody is awesome.
P.S.: I don´t have a personal agenda (apart from pointing out that you complain about hatred towards and devalueing of the military, while devalueing what the UN and Foreing Aid does)
I actually really like military personel.
Otherwise, I wouldn´t let one **** me.
IMHO, it's because the times my nation's military follows the US into a clusterfuck gets the attention.
In Vietnam, despite being fucked over by the US military and avoiding making the same mistakes (despite US pressure on them to do so), people back at home heard about the US atrocities and Australian troops got tarred with the same brush.
Nowdays, following the US into Iraq for bullshit reasons hasn't helped.
But what's really annoying is that nobody remembers the successful operations that were morally sound. RAMSI, for example, or East Timor (though there is a bit of a grey area there).
In Vietnam, despite being fucked over by the US military and avoiding making the same mistakes (despite US pressure on them to do so), people back at home heard about the US atrocities and Australian troops got tarred with the same brush.
Nowdays, following the US into Iraq for bullshit reasons hasn't helped.
But what's really annoying is that nobody remembers the successful operations that were morally sound. RAMSI, for example, or East Timor (though there is a bit of a grey area there).
See, and the thing is- I do have reasons I despise the UN.
And to clarify...I guess what I dislike is that the UN, instead of being what it should be, gets used for a lot of petty national grudge matches.
And to be fair, not all foreign aid is bad, I have to retract some of that. But, when you go down the lists...so much of it gets given and never gets to the actual suffering people, that either we put some kind of overwatch on it or we might as well stop.
And to clarify...I guess what I dislike is that the UN, instead of being what it should be, gets used for a lot of petty national grudge matches.
And to be fair, not all foreign aid is bad, I have to retract some of that. But, when you go down the lists...so much of it gets given and never gets to the actual suffering people, that either we put some kind of overwatch on it or we might as well stop.
RedBird's suggestion is a hypothetical from which you can easily extrapolate valid criticism. It's not unrealistic to suggest making a deal to drastically reduce, rather than abolish each country's military spending. Alternatively, you could fund only homeland defence and withdraw troops from overseas, which would also save a lot of money. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? If we each need a military superior to other country's militaries, wouldn't that just result in an endless arms race at the cost of genuine causes that need funding? It's America's belief that it can keep shovelling money into its already inflated military budget without negative repercussions which is unrealistic.Mortai Gravesend said:
Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.
That's pretty much why.
That's pretty much why.
I don't have a 'problem' with the Army, or the Navy, or the RAF per-say. My Dad was an Engineer in the Army, and served in both the Gulf and the Falklands, and although he never got to see 'Proper action' [Which he was quite relieved about, because he worries about how he much he might of changed if he had too shoot someone - OR get shot] he found the experience to be good charater building (for things like self discipline, teamwork and efficiency) and a method to quickly develop his engineering skills, which landed him the role of car test engineer he currently holds down - Plus it pissed off his Dad heh.
My problem stems not from the Army itself, but the means that controlls it and deploys it. I never voted for this Government, and was too young to have voted for the previous Govn, but they are the ones who sent us to War in Iraq etc. I have more of a trust issue as to WHY we are going to war, because all the evidence insofar has show it was a War to obtain oil to further expand the Govn's Coffers. And from what I know, I havent seen any this, so they cannot claim to be doing it for the benifit of the Nation as a whole.
And unfortunatley because of this, I see Armed forces as a Lap-Dog for the already powerful Government Establishment. I can't help it I'm 'faid. And it maybe true that my veiws are skewd to an extent (For example, I am currently on Student loans which the Governement provided. I have no idea whether this has come from the Oil money or not.) and I haven't kept too close of an eye upon the World situation, and Hence, Armed Force deployments, and have no idea as to how well/bad it is doing for "my" personal benefit. [Seems a selfish way of viewing the Army, but i feel the idea of fighting for anything would be better steered towards providing safety for you loved ones and friends rather than Nation Vs Nation Pride/Politics.]
IN SUMMARY:
In Short, nothing wrong with the Army, just the powers above them. It displays a little bit of Patriotic feeling to join, but there is an extremely obvious line between "Patriotic" and "Racist". Other countries shouldn't be Poo-Pooed or disrespected. Patriotism is about promoting your own country, not shitting on someone elses.
My problem stems not from the Army itself, but the means that controlls it and deploys it. I never voted for this Government, and was too young to have voted for the previous Govn, but they are the ones who sent us to War in Iraq etc. I have more of a trust issue as to WHY we are going to war, because all the evidence insofar has show it was a War to obtain oil to further expand the Govn's Coffers. And from what I know, I havent seen any this, so they cannot claim to be doing it for the benifit of the Nation as a whole.
And unfortunatley because of this, I see Armed forces as a Lap-Dog for the already powerful Government Establishment. I can't help it I'm 'faid. And it maybe true that my veiws are skewd to an extent (For example, I am currently on Student loans which the Governement provided. I have no idea whether this has come from the Oil money or not.) and I haven't kept too close of an eye upon the World situation, and Hence, Armed Force deployments, and have no idea as to how well/bad it is doing for "my" personal benefit. [Seems a selfish way of viewing the Army, but i feel the idea of fighting for anything would be better steered towards providing safety for you loved ones and friends rather than Nation Vs Nation Pride/Politics.]
IN SUMMARY:
In Short, nothing wrong with the Army, just the powers above them. It displays a little bit of Patriotic feeling to join, but there is an extremely obvious line between "Patriotic" and "Racist". Other countries shouldn't be Poo-Pooed or disrespected. Patriotism is about promoting your own country, not shitting on someone elses.