Why do people hate the army?

[Axyun]

I don't dislike the army. I dislike what countries tend to use their armies for:

Excuses to produce incredibly expensive equipment that is not needed and line the pockets of companies government officials have or plan to have a stake in.

Case in point: the F-22 Raptor. It is conservatively estimated to cost $137 million per plane (other estimates put it at 3 times the price) and they've never been deployed outside of training excercises. The U.S. owns over 140 of these over-priced pieces of junk costing tax payers like me billions upon billions of dollars and they've yet to be used. Not even in the post 9/11 conflicts.

I don't think entirely eliminating a military is possible for any country. As long as 2 people share a room, one is going to try to have a leg up on the other. It's one of the uglier sides of human nature. But, under the guise of patriotism and/or "defense", too many countries fool their citizens into needlessly spending their hard-earned tax dollars.

 

[soren7550]

Well, being American, I can't say why people would be hating on the Irish Army (they have an army? Zing! [I meant no disrespect, just poking some fun at the Irish as I tend to do]), but I'd guess that it's along the same lines as why people hate America's armies: they see them as a bunch of war mongering, baby killing, war junkies that only wish to take over other countries for their resources and kill everyone.

This obviously isn't true, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a world outside of the U.S. And some of the nicest dudes I've met were/are in the armed services. Hell, Fleet Week (which is coming up shortly!) is one of my favorite times of the year, because our servicemen and women come to down in droves, and dat uniform. *drools*

 

[AWAR]

Because they kill people. Also the UN isn't as neutral as you'd like to think.

 

[Stu35]

Because the army is nothing but government-sponsored killers?

I'm in the Army.

I'm an Engineer.

I've never killed anyone in my Life. I have built schools, hospitals, and mosques (not so happy about that last one, being an atheist, but hey ho). I know blokes who've been in the Army longer than me who operated as Firefighters when the greedy cunts were on strike in our nation.(Thats right, those wonderful men who's job it is to save lives, decided that they weren't getting paid enough to do it, so they went on strike... Cunts). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_firefighter_dispute_2002%E2%80%932003]

Those are just personal examples of how we're not just 'government-sponsored killers'.

We also have Medics, Lorry Drivers, Clerks, Police, Technicians, Mechanics, IT Professionals, and a shitton of other jobs that don't involve being a 'government sponsored killer'.

Do you know how many jobs we have in the British army that boil down to 'government sponsored killer'? ... Three: Infantry, Cavalry, Apache Pilot.

And with the exception of the Apache pilot, they will most likely not end up doing that themselves, instead they'll find themselves helping me build schools and hospitals, dig wells, and all that other shit that people like you give your two quid to OXFAM for, but they don't actually do because warlords steal all their equipment and money.


So... to summarise: You're wrong.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

I've never met anyone who hates soldiers. Like, I'm American, and I've been opposed to our military operations in the Middle East since the beginning, but I've never once blamed soldiers. I have an incredible amount of respect for the men who choose to risk their lives for the lives of their country. The men in charge of the military...yeah I'm not huge fans of them. But the vast majority of soldiers I consider to be heroes.

 

[jokaero]

Because they know that the other branches are better.

 

[bchampnd]

I think it's incredibly misguided for any civilian to hate his or her nation's military. Unless, of course, that military has been used against a nation's own citizens, or you have a personal - not philosophical - reason to hate it. (Examples: Personal - You or someone close to you was in it and unfairly treated. Philosophical - Killing/War is bad.)

Hate on the government decision-makers all you want. The military is only carrying out orders. The individual soldiers, marines, etc... are only doing their jobs. (And that's not to say that they have carte blanche to cause harm or to kill senselessly. Anyone with a brain recognizes that there is a difference between killing an armed combatant or killing in self defense and unjustifiably massacring innocents. Those who do the latter are deserving of hatred and should be held accountable for their actions.)

 

[GenericAmerican]

I hate the escapist community sometimes.

But I have to wonder if this same shitty argument was going on thousands of years ago. Does anyone know what public opinion was on the Roman Legions back in that age?

 

[AWAR]

Because they kill people. Also the UN isn't as neutral as you'd like to think.

They used to say similar sweeping generalisations about the Jews, and before that the freemasons, and the heretics, and the witches.... Ussually the accusers were wrong and had no idea what they were talking about.

I won't be as naive as to ask if you can back up your accusation, because all I'd get is an anecdote of some American committing a war crime, and him being compared to all armed forces of all countries.

Yes of course. Because America fights FOR OUR FREEDOM and HAS NEVER COMMITTED ANY WAR CRIME AT ALL. Have I done good uncle Sam? OH NO! NOT THE GUANTANAMO NOOOOoooooooooo....

Also FIY the UN is not a race, or a social group of any kind..

In all seriousness now. Nearly no one outside USA thinks of them positively. So you can A) Acknowledge it and deal with it or
B) Continue being blindly ignorant and live in the magical happy fantasy land where USA is loved and approved and everyone lives happy and free [small] except for those muslem terrorests they talk funny I dun' like them.. those French too they are faggets[/small]

 

[Cale Lively]

It seems if you respect the army you're a patriot, and patriotism is bad because it means you hate everyone that isn't from your country. I've had a few 'debates' with escapist members about 'patriotism' every time I say I respect soldiers people rag on me and tell me that I'm a terrible person that should die in a hole.

Actually you're confusing nationalism for patriotism. Hitler actually had a lot to say about the differences. Patriotism is believing in the founding principles of your nation and supporting making you nation better. Nationalism on the other hand is blindly following your nations agenda and leader. Hitler wanted Nationalism not patriotism. As to the real question, I dont hate the military, I however have meet many members of the US military who have and arrogance about it that is undeserved. Its long the same lines of America fuck yeah!

Ask your self do you put of and air of being better because your in the military?

 

[Bmagada]

As a former member of the the active duty US Army Infantryman, I've had to deal with my fair share of fights on this subject. I am against the war and was when I enlisted. The problem is most people who are against wars do not realize that even if you don't want to be in one, if we didn't have a standing military we would not have as much power as a country. Not saying military power is everything, but it is a deterrent and sadly one every country needs. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I personally believe that we shouldn't be trying to help other countries until we fix our own unless it's in dire need. I believe that serving should be a point of pride for any citizen of any country. We guard the ideals of a nation and hopefully a greater moral good.

The problem now is media. The internet has made this war very accessible and the problem is of course you don't want to see what happens during war. You never want to see what ugly things people have to do to do that job. Most of it is not pretty, specially if you are a combat soldier. People have been doing the same job for hundreds of years and the only thing that has changed is the technology its done with. People have to become that type of monster to do the job effectively. There is always a line you shouldn't cross, but a lot of other lines get blurred.

Every time someone tries to ask me about my service in a negative way my answer is always the same. "Have you ever been willing to go die for an ideal?" They always answer yes, Then I ask "Are willing to kill for the same ideal?" When the few that say yes come around I ask them one final question, "Are you willing to do both for a group of guys that you barely know but at the same time will know you better than anyone else in your entire life? Because that's what being a good combat soldier is, it's fighting and dying with a guy next to you, even if you have nothing in common, who would do the same for you in a heartbeat and that's it. While everyone else might wave a flag or praise their country like they would their favorite sports team, claiming family members or loved ones who served, this group of guys you know gave up just as much as you to be right there. Sacrificing every inch of what they have just for the people around them and for people who aren't strong enough to do it themselves."

I figure if they keep trying to argue after that they are either just being an ass for the sake of argument or they are just trying way to hard to win a verbal battle so they can feel better about themselves. Fuck them at that point.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Weird, here in the US the army has one of the highest trust ratings of any public institution, right up there with firefighters. Congress is at the bottom here. I support the army. Armies don't declare wars, politicians do, armies just die fighting in them.

 

[AWAR]

Funny, dude who dislikes America encounters other dude who dislikes America, and assumes the the other must be an American due to stereotypes. Why don't you can that ignorant stereotype crap? You just look worse when you make such blatant mistakes.

I did that on purpose to make you yankees show how smart you are ;D Absente reo as the Latins used to say

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

Case in point: the F-22 Raptor. It is conservatively estimated to cost $137 million per plane (other estimates put it at 3 times the price) and they've never been deployed outside of training excercises. The U.S. owns over 140 of these over-priced pieces of junk costing tax payers like me billions upon billions of dollars and they've yet to be used. Not even in the post 9/11 conflicts.

You might get a kick out of this then... http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/15/11718911-panetta-restricts-f-22-flights-due-to-oxygen-system-complaints?lite

I hate the escapist community sometimes.

But I have to wonder if this same shitty argument was going on thousands of years ago. Does anyone know what public opinion was on the Roman Legions back in that age?

That depends, what part of the Empire are you in and are any Roman Legionnaires in earshot?

 

[xaszatm]

My opinion of the military is...complicated, to say the least. My main issue is that, despite what many people on this thread seem to think, a military is NOT a single monolithic group in which everyone is a carbon copy of everyone else. A military is an organisation, and like all organisations, they have many branches, groups, and individuals.

For individual soldiers, if I know nothing else about them except for the fact that they are soldiers, I will usually hold them with a certain amount of respect. This is mainly because they are willing to fight and die for what that military represents. Once I get to know the person, then my opinion changes accordingly. There are people in a military who are genuine nice people. There are people in a military who are people that are a damage to society. My opinion on a soldier honestly depends on his actions and attitude.

For a military itself, my opinion usually ranges from neutral to apprehensive. As I said earlier, most military is divided into separate branches. Within these branches exist room for excellence and corruption. Therefore, I usually view the military with just neutral opinions, as there is room for both good and bad.

As to why people hate the military itself, I believe it is because people believe that the military are monolithic. Certainly, the government doesn't help with this opinion. Therefore, when people hear about bad news about whatever military branch, they assume that ALL are like that, which is simply not true. This is one of the main reasons, in my own opinion of course.

Also:

I did that on purpose to make you yankees show how smart you are ;D Absente reo as the Latins used to say

...wow, you sure are a troll. Assuming that ALL "yankees" are what you think. What despicable behavior you are showing. Although I guess I shouldn't expect much from a person who has a picture of what looks like a cross between a terrorist and a gang member as his profile picture...

Sorry for the rant and grammatical errors, just had to get it out of my system.

 

[tofulove]

mostly misplace hate for the leadership, but the end of the day, any one who joins up with the military is sighing up to be murderer, the only difference is its ok cause the state gives you permission. i once saw a comic of a lady saying i hate the war but support the troops in the back ground were a bunch of nazi troops marching. even if you sign up for a non combat role, the reality is if you have to you must fight and kill. if your a mechanic in the green zone and your base is suddenly under siege your expected to pick up a gun and fight.

also America is fucked up, we spend 52 % of our budget on military(last time i checked), no peaceful nation spends that much on military. were cutting health care, education and all sorts of good things, but we wont touche the bloated military, even china doesn't spend nearly that much. we need to pull our heads out of the cold war.

in closing, join the military in any way or form, you agreeing that your willing to be a murderer, there no if or buts about it. and a lot of people don't like that.

 

[Kroq-Gar]

So I only read the first page because I'm not going through the whole damn thing haha. I just thought I'd throw an idea out there.

I really don't know how I feel about the army. I always see video and hear about terrible crimes committed by soldiers such as the one who had a mental break down and killed 16 people in their sleep (mostly women and children), or when a group of them decided that the smart thing to do would be to burn a bunch of Qurans (more stupid then terrible). Over 66 000 civilian deaths have occurred between January 2004 and December 2009 (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/warlogs/). The icing on the cake is that fantastic time some of them shot children from the air (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojw5MnsqkJQ&feature=related) WATCH THIS.

On the other hand,

all soldiers can't be total pieces of garbage right? I mean if you watched the video at 11:24 there are soldiers running with the injured children. We probably just hear and remember the negative quite a lot more. So I really doubt that all soldiers all shit.

So why is there hate on the army? I think it's the same reason many people don't like police or even freaking priests. They are held to be on a much higher moral ground then other due to their status in society and because they carry weapons (priests don't.... unless Diablo is more then just a game). The moment someone is supposed to protect the weak or is given power in any form (could be a gun) we hold them to higher standards because they must be. A police officer, a soldier, and a priest are meant to be cause good feelings in people and yet whenever I see them I get a nasty in my gut and my emotions tell me that I view these people as shit. However my brain tells me that they can't all be bad. Sadly, one or two bad apple will completely ruin the whole batch.

So I don't know where I stand on soldiers, I haven't decided yet.

 

[tofulove]

also, being in the military doesn't make you manly, in reality its the most submissive role in the world, if your superior told you to clean the bathroom with a tooth brush, you got to do it, hows that manly? being a violent person doesn't make you manly, its makes you a violent person, there more to man hood imo than killing and beating people up.

the most violent people i met in my life also tend to be the most immature dumb and ignorant people ive met.

 

[Warforger]

I don't hate the military, but the justification for much of it is horrible and outright delusional. For example the old "they fight for our rights" bullshit, no they don't, simple as that. They fight for well security in other nations to which we interpret as our own.

Then there's the whole "shit happens" response anytime military personnel are caught committing crimes. Really? "Shit happens" I guess that's the excuse for Columbine then too huh? So instead of just going to the most logical outcome and coming up with ways to mend the problem and apologize they just say shit happens and it goes on to happen again.

 

[sibrenfetter]

It is a good question you ask and while I see many posts here, I prefer to answer the original post. While the person you describe was definitely a tosser, I think most people's problems with the army come from the fact that a soldier has to do what he or she is ordered to do. In essence this means that the army might become their own peoples enemy rather than their protector. And this is no fiction, this is a harsh reality in many parts of the world (and could be the case in any country if one is not careful). Take that together with a couple of recent wars which have been (for most people) a complete waist of human lives and money and it is easy to see why people loathe the army.
Take the Netherlands for example. Due to history and economic ties we have no choice but to help the Americans in everything they attack. The last couple of wars, we did not agree on, our people were very much against it, yet we still are in for instance Afghanistan. This has nothing to do with protecting our country in any way and it never had. I understand fully well why people, in such a case, do not see the army as necessary.
Nevertheless do not get me wrong, I do see the use of the army, but I would rather see it used more within the country itself. But there is no doubt in my mind that we should respect those that put their life on line, whether we agree to their use or not.